Update: I GOT a refund for DNF

[Asuka Soryu]

That's why I like Valve.

They refunded my brother because he bought Saints Row 2 on PC, and it was utterly unplayable on his good PC.

How much did you pay for your brother in the first place?

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Except the multiplayer, which is pure 2001 in gameplay and graphics. Sort of Timesplitters-ish.

Ooooooookay, I like Timesplitters. In fact, I'm still cursing my brother out each and every day of his existance because he never ceases to earn that fucking RICOCHET KING award with that fucking SCI-FI HANDGUN. Of course, it makes revenge all the sweeter when I grenade launcher his ass.

So basically, I'm getting the game for nostalgia and I get something reminiscent of Timesplitters? You won't hear me complaining.

 

[AgentNein]

Wow, that really sums up how almost the entire industry's design sensibilities have changed in the last fifteen or so years, doesn't it? Might be a TAD hyperbolic, but sadly not THAT hyperbolic. If it were the map for RPGs it'd need a couple of short dead ends here and there for treasure chests.

Map on the left really makes me want to replay the Marathon games. In fact I think I might do that now.

 

[Mxrz]

Someone should take that pic, and apply all the costs, man hours, production values, poly count, adjusted retail price tags, and all that. But that would sort of kill the whole "Developers are lazy-n-shit now!" thing folks like to get off to.

 

[Gralian]

Wow, that really sums up how almost the entire industry's design sensibilities have changed in the last fifteen or so years, doesn't it?

Map on the left really makes me want to replay the Marathon games. In fact I think I might do that now.

Have you stopped to think maybe it's like that because no-one wants to get lost in a map when they could be, you know, playing the game? Shooting bad guys? Because being able to get lost in a level is called bad level design. The best designed levels are ones that are linear but have different ways to approach a situation. Crysis 2 did this really well; you could have found a rocket launcher to blow up a tank or snuck past it underground for example. However you tackled the problem, you were still going from A to B and reaching a cutscene before repeating the pattern. But did that make it a bad game? Absolutely not. Just imagine if you had to run around ruined New York without any sort of guiding linearity. You'd get pretty sick of seeing that same overturned car when you realised you'd gone in circles for half an hour. I'm reminded of one level in particular on Duke Nukem 3D, when you are captured by pig cops and have to escape prison. Now i love Duke 3D, and the myriad of secrets, but because of hte way the level was layed out i ended up running in circles before realising i had to press a certain switch to lower a forcefield and press another button to open the right door to continue. I shouldn't have to search for that. It was frustrating enough that it nearly made me quit the game. Developers want to avoid that, and rightly so. Hence why you have more focused, linear levels. It's just a shame there's less focus on diversions for secrets or different approaches to a given situation. I say there should be focused linearity, but with a slight, if arbitrary, degree of freedom.

 

[manaman]

You play a game, finish it, then want your money back because you didn't like it. Congrats on being part of the reason why retail outlets no longer do refunds or exchanges on games & movies!

So if you bought a pie, and the pie was terrible, you wouldn't expect your money back?

I wouldn't. It's part of the risk of buying consumables (which media pretty much is these days). That's why reputations are so important among companies and people that make consumables.

Now that said, had I found the pie was inedible because it was made of plastic I might expect my money back (as in the hordes of people talking about compatibility issues in this thread) but that is a different story from it just tasting bad.

 

[Sikratua]

But, if a person ate the entire pie, that person must have enjoyed it, at some level. At least, that is the very easy argument for the baker to make. It also helps matters that this argument is nearly impossible for the person demanding the refund to counter.

Counter: "I was hoping it would get better". Bam, done. I played through the whole of Medal of Honor 2010, and I wouldn't force that thing on anybody. It was so fucking bad, yet for some reason, I thought it could improve. And I've just realised my analogy is kind of crappy, because I compared perishable and non-perishable items. I need to think of a better one.

Your "counter" is complete bullshit, quite frankly. You don't like the pie, don't buy pie from that bakery again. You have no right for a refund for a product that no longer exists. And, yes, your analogy was very flawed, on its face.

 

[Echo136]

Don't get me wrong - I had fun with Duke Nukem Forever. Did I have eighty bucks of fun? No.

My worthless opinion: I believe the fourteen year development time, constant changes and the lunatic in charge of the whole mess constantly trying to make the game like the other big sellers - presumably in pursuit of the perfect game - is the reason behind the game's utter failure.

Even by standards of today's games, it's lame. What irks me the most is the rooms full of enemies, and you can only advance by killing each wave. As if the gates are fueled by alien souls, and you have to feed it so many before it opens for you. Boring.

So, I contacted Steam Support and they said yes to my refund. I advise those of you who tragically miss their eighty bucks to do the same.

Just be as polite and respectful as you can. Personally I'm going to use this to buy Portal2, which I should have done a long, long time ago.

Thats the first time Ive EVER heard of STEAM giving a refund. Bravo.

 

[veryboringfact]

Someone should take that pic, and apply all the costs, man hours, production values, poly count, adjusted retail price tags, and all that. But that would sort of kill the whole "Developers are lazy-n-shit now!" thing folks like to get off to.

so in this day and age you agree that it's more important to have motion blur and realistic boobie physics than intelligent level design and balanced gamepley ? Developers aren't lazy - they're cynical, and rely on uninformed consumers giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[AgentNein]

Wow, that really sums up how almost the entire industry's design sensibilities have changed in the last fifteen or so years, doesn't it?

Map on the left really makes me want to replay the Marathon games. In fact I think I might do that now.

Have you stopped to think maybe it's like that because no-one wants to get lost in a map when they could be, you know, playing the game? Shooting bad guys? Because being able to get lost in a level is called bad level design.

That's silly, you're assuming that getting a bit turned around or lost isn't the designer's intention. Only then is it objectively bad design. Otherwise it's just a stylistic preference.

*snip the rest*

You'll notice that I didn't actually make any sort of judgement call on linear design vs. nonlinear design. I actually like both, but more than anything I enjoy having the option for both in the marketplace. Mazes are fun for some folks, you know this right?

And getting lost would be easily remedied by having a map on hand. A lot of old FPSs had maps. Although I do agree, that level in Duke 3d was kinda bullshit. Not all of the stages were though, right?

 

[Juventus]

So if you bought a pie, and the pie was terrible, you wouldn't expect your money back?

that's why you play demos first. 99 percent of the time demos are an accurate representation of what the final product is, especially in shooters where there is only so many ways you can kill somethings and the stories are generally shit.

compare it your example. if the pie shop gives you free samples to try out, and after trying said horrible pie, you decide to buy the pie anyway, do you then deserve your money back?

in short op pulled a retard move by buying the game and gets away scratch free.

 

[AgentBJ09]

I may have been unclear here, I meant the Deus Ex beta. omgomgomgomg

In that case, no.

However, I have seen gameplay footage of the E3 demo, and while the game looks interesting, like I said before, I refuse to support anything that is connected to Square Enix. And, if I find out the game is good, I will buy it used.

 

[Nieroshai]

You paid $80? PLEASE day this isn't in USD because if it is, you got ripped off.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Isn't that one of the early Doom levels? I remember that maze in the right hand corner, I think.

God, Doom was awesome. More shooters need to emphasise exploration.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Um...Good for you?

Seriously, please explain to me why anyone should care about this.

And someone else explain why the actually DO, if the THREE FUCKING PAGES of this thread are any indication.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

You play a game, finish it, then want your money back because you didn't like it. Congrats on being part of the reason why retail outlets no longer do refunds or exchanges on games & movies!

So if you bought a pie, and the pie was terrible, you wouldn't expect your money back?

not really, if it was not cooked obviously or some other obvious reason, i'd have pointed that out from the get go and wait my extra time for them to take it back and fix it, which is no big deal really, but for arguments sake i go into wherever i'm going KNOWING what i am getting and why i am getting it, and if i end up not liking it then i remember that for next time to A)not go there for that or B) get something else there next time. I know i'm a semi picky eater but isn't that whole point of liking foods? so you can go back there and get it again next time?

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Don't get me wrong - I had fun with Duke Nukem Forever. Did I have eighty bucks of fun? No.

My worthless opinion: I believe the fourteen year development time, constant changes and the lunatic in charge of the whole mess constantly trying to make the game like the other big sellers - presumably in pursuit of the perfect game - is the reason behind the game's utter failure.

Even by standards of today's games, it's lame. What irks me the most is the rooms full of enemies, and you can only advance by killing each wave. As if the gates are fueled by alien souls, and you have to feed it so many before it opens for you. Boring.

So, I contacted Steam Support and they said yes to my refund. I advise those of you who tragically miss their eighty bucks to do the same.

Just be as polite and respectful as you can. Personally I'm going to use this to buy Portal2, which I should have done a long, long time ago.

i'm glad that you got your refund, that's awesome, but wow...is steam retarded? for video games unless the game wasn't working correctly i'd tell someone tough shit and to go enjoy their 80 bucks of data they just purchased.