Vegetarianism

[Abedeus]

If you are considering supplements, this means your diet is not effective enough and your body needs something.

No, it means you're being smart. If someone's taking supplements, it means they're making sure they're getting the nutrients they need. It's not "cheating."

Noo, not cheating.

I'll start living off dirt and stuff myself with vitamins, push medicines into my veins. If I survive this way 3 months and lose 20kg, this means it's the ultimate diet! I'm perfectly healthy (despite taking 20 pills and having a damaged liver) and I lost weight!

It tastes like shit, but some animals eat dirt and expunge it, how bad can it be.

Face it - if you have to take pills with vitamins or proteins or whatever your diet should give you, your body doesn't have it. That's EXACTLY like stuffing yourself with dirt and taking pills to fill the gaps.

 

[Shapsters]

Although I think vegetarians are silly hippies, I respect your choice. I do think it is ridiculously hypocritical to eat fish, they are living aren't they?! I honestly have no respect for vegetarians that eat fish because they aren't vegetarians, according to my calculations, fish live, breath and eat. That means you are eating a living thing, which makes you not a vegetarian.

Again, most vegetarians are concerned with suffering, not death. If a "vegetarian" isn't opposed to fishing, then it's not really hypocrisy. Though they probably wouldn't be called a vegetarian.

Remember that plants are living things, but they don't have brains, thoughts, or nerves.

I'm not sure your point with the last statement, what do you mean by that?

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

If you are considering supplements, this means your diet is not effective enough and your body needs something.

No, it means you're being smart. If someone's taking supplements, it means they're making sure they're getting the nutrients they need. It's not "cheating."

Noo, not cheating.

I'll start living off dirt and stuff myself with vitamins, push medicines into my veins. If I survive this way 3 months and lose 20kg, this means it's the ultimate diet! I'm perfectly healthy (despite taking 20 pills and having a damaged liver) and I lost weight!

It tastes like shit, but some animals eat dirt and expunge it, how bad can it be.

Face it - if you have to take pills with vitamins or proteins or whatever your diet should give you, your body doesn't have it. That's EXACTLY like stuffing yourself with dirt and taking pills to fill the gaps.

When you get old, you can not eat all the prescribed supplements you want.

Honestly, man, that's barely an argument. Eating plants is not the equivalent of eating dirt, and taking one supplement shouldn't harm you.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Although I think vegetarians are silly hippies, I respect your choice. I do think it is ridiculously hypocritical to eat fish, they are living aren't they?! I honestly have no respect for vegetarians that eat fish because they aren't vegetarians, according to my calculations, fish live, breath and eat. That means you are eating a living thing, which makes you not a vegetarian.

Again, most vegetarians are concerned with suffering, not death. If a "vegetarian" isn't opposed to fishing, then it's not really hypocrisy. Though they probably wouldn't be called a vegetarian.

Remember that plants are living things, but they don't have brains, thoughts, or nerves.

I'm not sure your point with the last statement, what do you mean by that?

Just that can be a difference between eating living matter and contributing to suffering.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Why do you classify pills as medicine and not as part of the diet? What does it matter if someone gets their omega-3s from putting the flaxseed oil on a salad or just eating it in pill form?

I don't because I can't actually make pills myself, it would be a diet with wich I can't support myself. Robbinson Crusoe couldn't get any pills (ignoring that fact that pills couldn't be made when he lived, and the fact that he's a fictional character), neither can I when I would be in his shoes.

2) Again, I'm not saying hunting is bad. (Factory farming on the other hand...) I'm saying that a vegan diet is a legitimate option if your goal is the reduction of suffering.

The actual vegan part, as I've explained, has nothing to do with animal cruelty. You can go vegan and be incredibly cruel to animals and the other way around, and you can eat meat and not be cruel to animals and the other way around. The actual part of eating or not eating animal products is seperated from animal cruelty. Does it mean that because I eat meat I would support animal cruelty? Ofcourse not, I don't, I hate it with a deep passion. I don't want to be an SPCA cop for nothing (although such an organisation, sadly, does not exist where I live, sad face).

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Why do you classify pills as medicine and not as part of the diet? What does it matter if someone gets their omega-3s from putting the flaxseed oil on a salad or just eating it in pill form?

I don't because I can't actually make pills myself, it would be a diet with wich I can't support myself.

2) Again, I'm not saying hunting is bad. (Factory farming on the other hand...) I'm saying that a vegan diet is a legitimate option if your goal is the reduction of suffering.

The actual vegan part, as I've explained, has nothing to do with animal cruelty. You can go vegan and be incredibly cruel to animals and the other way around, and you can eat meat and not be cruel to animals and the other way around. The actual part of eating or not eating animal products is seperated from animal cruelty.

Yeah, you're taking my meaning of animal cruelty out of context. Not eating meat or animal products would inherently remove your demands for factory farming.

A vegan could beat his dog - but that's really besides the point.

It reduces animal suffering by reducing the demand for factory farming - factory farming is the reason why families can afford to have chicken dinners ever night, and why we have that massive supply of chicken. In America, there are, what, fifty chickens for every family? I can't remember the exact statistic. It was in the high forties.

Anyway, as I said, being vegan is an option to reduce animal suffering. Consider it an economic form of protest. Voting with your dollars. Every positive side effect is just bonus.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Yeah, you're taking my meaning of animal cruelty out of context. Not eating meat or animal products would inherently remove your demands for factory farming.

A vegan could beat his dog - but that's really besides the point.

It reduces animal suffering by reducing the demand for factory farming - factory farming is the reason why families can afford to have chicken dinners ever night, and why we have that massive supply of chicken. In America, there are, what, fifty chickens for every family? I can't remember the exact statistic. It was in the high forties.

Anyway, as I said, being vegan is an option to reduce animal suffering. Consider it an economic form of protest. Voting with your dollars.

No, not buying products from factory farming reduces the demand for factory farming. That does not equal going vegan or veggie. Again, I'm a living example of that fact. Just because I consume animal products does not necessarily mean that those products are from factory farms. They're not in my case. So that means that I'm still joining the 'economic protest' by not buying factory farm products, but I'm not a veggie or a vegan. So why would I bother with the vegan/veggie part? Why would I deviate from the human natural diet if I can still reach the goals (not supporting animal cruelty) you're talking about without deviating from that diet.

 

[jasoncyrus]

You plan was good till you decided to use wikipedia...I'd prefer proper citations from proper studies. The simple rule of "If you cant use it in a college/university paper, then you cant use it here." works well in this situation.

Universitys don't accept Wikipedia because they encourage use of primary sources. This is why encyclopedias of any kind are rarely used for research papers. Not because they're inaccurate, but because they're not primary sources. It's bad research, not bad information.

If you can find the Wikipedia article, you're free to not be a douche and follow the citations.

Or you could act like a mature adult who actually can back up what hes saying and actually know what he is talking about.

Firstly: its not because they are not primary sources its because they (wikipedia) can be edited by ANYONE and thus liable to be potentially inaccurate.

BTW:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/7490202.stm

Soy apparently encourages memory loss. Lots of vegetarians are now apparently screwed.

EDIT: I was considering putting some real effort into my arguments until you made the idiotic point of "Going vegan decreases animal suffering and lessens the demand for factory farming."

All you pointed out was how retarded you are being.

All the meat I eat is free range, I ensure this because free range tastes a lot better. As for suffering. No, theres STILL going to be suffering especially from people who keep animals as pets and dont know how to care for them properly.

But since we are on the topic of pain and murder, a'll skip your arguments and cut right to the chase with a my post from another vegetarian thread proving vegetarians are the same murderers they claim us omnivores are.

But one thing that amazes me is that they don't think eating plants is murder also, their reasoning being that they don't feel pain.

So if i stab a sepa (however its spelt, the disease where you ccant feel any pain), in the heart and kill them, that means its not murder?

Of course it is, you are extinguishing a life.

Plants have life, by eating them you are extinguishing their life, thus murdering them.

 

[Abedeus]

If you are considering supplements, this means your diet is not effective enough and your body needs something.

No, it means you're being smart. If someone's taking supplements, it means they're making sure they're getting the nutrients they need. It's not "cheating."

Noo, not cheating.

I'll start living off dirt and stuff myself with vitamins, push medicines into my veins. If I survive this way 3 months and lose 20kg, this means it's the ultimate diet! I'm perfectly healthy (despite taking 20 pills and having a damaged liver) and I lost weight!

It tastes like shit, but some animals eat dirt and expunge it, how bad can it be.

Face it - if you have to take pills with vitamins or proteins or whatever your diet should give you, your body doesn't have it. That's EXACTLY like stuffing yourself with dirt and taking pills to fill the gaps.

When you get old, you can not eat all the prescribed supplements you want.

Honestly, man, that's barely an argument. Eating plants is not the equivalent of eating dirt, and taking one supplement shouldn't harm you.

Ooooh too bad, my perfect plan of world domination by being perfectly healthy, thin and rich is foiled! I just said your liver might fail.

No, taking one supplement shouldn't harm. But you said that being a vegan/vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. If you however take pills to fill what your diet doesn't give, it means that it's NOT healthier.

For instance - I'm an omnivore and except for high blood pressure due to genetics (my grandmother had a weak heart, my mom has problems with blood pressure when in stress) and allergy + asthma because of allergy, I'm perfectly healthy. I'm an ideal blood donor, one year too young. My cholesterol is normal, both the good one and the bad one. And I don't have to take supplements, because my diet is bad.

Vegetarians have to.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Ooooh too bad, my perfect plan of world domination by being perfectly healthy, thin and rich is foiled! I just said your liver might fail.

No, taking one supplement shouldn't harm. But you said that being a vegan/vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. If you however take pills to fill what your diet doesn't give, it means that it's NOT healthier.

For instance - I'm an omnivore and except for high blood pressure due to genetics (my grandmother had a weak heart, my mom has problems with blood pressure when in stress) and allergy + asthma because of allergy, I'm perfectly healthy. I'm an ideal blood donor, one year too young. My cholesterol is normal, both the good one and the bad one. And I don't have to take supplements, because my diet is bad.

Vegetarians have to.

Indeed, I'm in the same situation. I eat meat by the pound(s) every week and i have perfect cholesterol, good blood pressure, and no chronic illnesses (other than hyper acidity due to one too many cases of gastritis).

Plus as I've aid in other posts, You cant snap me in half like a twiglet.

Unlike vegetarians.

 

[Cowabungaa]

But you're not in his shoes. What does being in someone's shoes have to do with being healthy? Why should a diet for people living today who are not castaways on a remote tropical island near Venezuela have anything to do with any environment other than the one they are living in when it comes to what is 'healthy' or not?

It was just an example. All I wanted to say that a diet with pills is not a diet on wich I can be self sufficient. I might move to such an area, I don't like human civilisation that much, it's rotten to it's very core.

Indeed, I'm in the same situation. I eat meat by the pound(s) every week and i have perfect cholesterol, good blood pressure, and no chronic illnesses (other than hyper acidity due to one too many cases of gastritis).

Plus as I've aid in other posts, You cant snap me in half like a twiglet.

Unlike vegetarians.

I have to step in here: you can be a really beefy guy on a veggie diet. You can also be a fat, blubbering monstrosity on a veggie diet, and you can also be a tiny twig on a diet that contains meat.

 

[jasoncyrus]

I have to step in here: you can be a really beefy guy on a veggie diet. You can also be a fat, blubbering monstrosity on a veggie diet, and you can also be a tiny twig on a diet that contains meat.

I stand temporarily corrected.

 

[G1eet]

Guess you can't eat peanut butter Twix.

 

[Cowabungaa]

So what does anything you're saying have to do with people who like human civilization and don't think it's rotten to the core and probably won't move to such an area, i.e., people who have no desire to be self sufficient while living in an environment where they don't have to be?

It doesn't have anything to do with it. You're mixing things up a bit. You were asking for the reasons why I didn't include pills in our diet and I gave you my reasons; self-sufficiency. The castaway example was just that; an example. Whereither the person on the island is there against his own free will or not didn't matter for the example, Robbinson Crusoe was simply the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

@Assassinator: I never said going vegan was the only option for reducing demand on factory farmed animals, but I did say it was an option, and a legitimate one at that. You could recognize that is has the potential to do good, and would be a more sustainable option for the majority of the human population than having everyone hunt for food. That wouldn't be sustainable. And if we took turns and hunted responsibly we'd all be mostly vegans anyway.

Besides, how can you be sure the meat you're buying at the supermarket isn't factory farmed? The "free range" label in the states doesn't often mean anything.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Right--what does being able to access something if you're not part of human civilization have to do with whether it counts as part of one's diet as opposed to as part of one's medications? I mean, I can grow aloe vera in my backyard or find it on some uninhabited island that I've been shipwrecked on: does that mean it's not medicine?

Aren't you really just setting the line between diet and medicine based on something that is important to you--"self sufficient"--but only because of your personal preferences, and not because of any objective reason that has the same meaning for everyone that it does for you?

You're really seeing way too much in my examples, they're just examples, relax.
Anyway, about the latter, yea, those were my reasons and that's why I didn't include it in a diet. I never claimed to have any objective reasons for not including pills. Maybe there are medical, objective reasons why pills aren't considered a part of our diet. Maybe because they have to be made, they're artificial, I don't know. Would be interested to know though. The Wikipedia article about "diet" says: In nutrition, the diet is the sum of food consumed by a person or other organism. So that would leave the question: are pills food? When is something food? Dictionary.com says: 1. any nourishing substance that is eaten, drunk, or otherwise taken into the body to sustain life, provide energy, promote growth, etc.
And that would include pills. One can technically have a diet consisting entirely from pills.