Vegetarianism

[Abedeus]

No, taking one supplement shouldn't harm. But you said that being a vegan/vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. If you however take pills to fill what your diet doesn't give, it means that it's NOT healthier.

Why? Why does the form in which you get your nutrients matter in terms of 'health'?

I think we are talking about Omnivorism vs Vegetarianism. Not Omnivorism vs Vegetarianism + pills + some meat.

If he says that pure vegetarianism is healthy IF YOU TAKE PILLS, then without the pills is not healthy.

Again - if you can solve everything that isn't in your diet by pills, then why not eat only pills and carry a bag of glucose and put it through your vein?

Either you can go on eating ONLY plants, or you have to stuff yourself with pills. And no matter how much healthy food you eat, your liver will cry anyway.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

No, taking one supplement shouldn't harm. But you said that being a vegan/vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. If you however take pills to fill what your diet doesn't give, it means that it's NOT healthier.

Dude, if you're in good health, you're in good health, regardless of how you got your nutrition. If I don't get the bad cholesterol clogging my arteries, that's just added benefit for me.

 

[Cowabungaa]

@Assassinator: I never said going vegan was the only option for reducing demand on factory farmed animals, but I did say it was an option, and a legitimate one at that. You could recognize that is has the potential to do good, and would be a more sustainable option for the majority of the human population than having everyone hunt for food. That wouldn't be sustainable. And if we took turns and hunted responsibly we'd all be mostly vegans anyway.

Besides, how can you be sure the meat you're buying at the supermarket isn't factory farmed? The "free range" label in the states doesn't often mean anything.

Ofcourse it's an option, just like just eating pills is an option. They can all be used to reach the same goal: fighting against animal cruelty. It's just that the actual vegan part of not consuming animals doesn't have anything to do with the actual goal itself, because you can reach the goal without it. So why would I bother with it, and not just stick with my traditional human diet. That's all I'm wondering about. Ofcourse there isn't enough game for everyone to hunt, but that's where organic farming comes in. Yes it yields less, but we're not supposed to eat so much meat anyway, that's unhealthy.
And yes, you're right that you have to be carefull with some labels, especially the free range one for eggs. Afterall, the chickens may not be in little cubicles, but if they're all cramped together in 1 big cubicle, then there is barely anything gained. Therefor I buy organic stuff. I don't live in the states though.

No, taking one supplement shouldn't harm. But you said that being a vegan/vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. If you however take pills to fill what your diet doesn't give, it means that it's NOT healthier.

Dude, if you're in good health, you're in good health, regardless of how you got your nutrition. If I don't get the bad cholesterol clogging my arteries, that's just added benefit for me.

You get that from eating too much of it. We're not supposed to eat wagonloads of red meat, we still do it, that's why the comparison between a lot of regular diets and a veggie diet is flawed: you're comparing it with an already flawed diet.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

But one thing that amazes me is that they don't think eating plants is murder also, their reasoning being that they don't feel pain.

So if i stab a sepa (however its spelt, the disease where you ccant feel any pain), in the heart and kill them, that means its not murder?

Of course it is, you are extinguishing a life.

Plants have life, by eating them you are extinguishing their life, thus murdering them.

Considering that the people who have numbed pain responses still have brain activity, yeah, it'd still be murder. Now, if you were to stab someone who was brain dead, they're already considered legally dead. There can be a difference between suffering and physical pain: you don't need to feel physical pain to suffer, but a brain is a prerequisite.

Find me a carrot with brain activity, then we'll talk.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Ofcourse it's an option, just like just eating pills is an option.

Well, we were getting somewhere, but you currently can't live on just pills. If we got to a point where that was a legitimate option, and it provided substantial health, moral, environmental, or economic advantages to a vegan diet, I'm sure there would be a few pill-itarians.

 

[jasoncyrus]

But one thing that amazes me is that they don't think eating plants is murder also, their reasoning being that they don't feel pain.

So if i stab a sepa (however its spelt, the disease where you ccant feel any pain), in the heart and kill them, that means its not murder?

Of course it is, you are extinguishing a life.

Plants have life, by eating them you are extinguishing their life, thus murdering them.

Considering that the people who have numbed pain responses still have brain activity, yeah, it'd still be murder. Now, if you were to stab someone who was brain dead, they're already considered legally dead. There can be a difference between suffering and physical pain: you don't need to feel physical pain to suffer, but a brain is a prerequisite.

Find me a carrot with brain activity, then we'll talk.

Havn't studied biology have you?

All plants have brains, just because it's not complex as a human brain doesn't mean they don't have them. Without it they wouldn't be able to turn their leaves towards the sun to maximise their photosynthesis or produce the chemicals necessary for photosynthesis to occur, or know when to produce more of them.

 

[Abedeus]

No, taking one supplement shouldn't harm. But you said that being a vegan/vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. If you however take pills to fill what your diet doesn't give, it means that it's NOT healthier.

Dude, if you're in good health, you're in good health, regardless of how you got your nutrition. If I don't get the bad cholesterol clogging my arteries, that's just added benefit for me.

Hello? We are not talking about cholersterol.

You said vegetarian diet is healthier. But you also said that "if you don't have something, you can take supplements". That's cheating, you know. That's like taking a medicine for heart problems and ignoring the fact that you eat too much cholesterol... or just too much.

You are losing your main argument - vegetarians are healthier. OF COURSE THEY ARE, IF THEY TAKE PILLS! If you eat only meat and take vitamins, you can claim your diet is healthier. It's not.

Why am I still arguing with you? I have a migrene, and I don't want to waste my time on you. Take some supplements, eat some dirt and you'll be much healthier.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

But one thing that amazes me is that they don't think eating plants is murder also, their reasoning being that they don't feel pain.

So if i stab a sepa (however its spelt, the disease where you ccant feel any pain), in the heart and kill them, that means its not murder?

Of course it is, you are extinguishing a life.

Plants have life, by eating them you are extinguishing their life, thus murdering them.

Considering that the people who have numbed pain responses still have brain activity, yeah, it'd still be murder. Now, if you were to stab someone who was brain dead, they're already considered legally dead. There can be a difference between suffering and physical pain: you don't need to feel physical pain to suffer, but a brain is a prerequisite.

Find me a carrot with brain activity, then we'll talk.

Havn't studied biology have you?

All plants have brains, just because it's not complex as a human brain doesn't mean they don't have them. Without it they wouldn't be able to turn their leaves towards the sun to maximise their photosynthesis or produce the chemicals necessary for photosynthesis to occur, or know when to produce more of them.

That's not brain activity, and if you've studied biology, you should know that. Just because plants cells grow in the direction of the sun doesn't mean they have a complex central nervous system capable of thought and suffering.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=177333

It has nothing to do with intelligence.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Hello? We are not talking about cholersterol.

You said vegetarian diet is healthier. But you also said that "if you don't have something, you can take supplements". That's cheating, you know. That's like taking a medicine for heart problems and ignoring the fact that you eat too much cholesterol... or just too much.

You are losing your main argument - vegetarians are healthier. OF COURSE THEY ARE, IF THEY TAKE PILLS! If you eat only meat and take vitamins, you can claim your diet is healthier. It's not.

Why am I still arguing with you? I have a migrene, and I don't want to waste my time on you. Take some supplements, eat some dirt and you'll be much healthier.

1) I was talking about cholesterol.
2) Taking supplements isn't cheating, it's just smart.
3) I don't want to argue with you either. You're obnoxious.

 

[Lexodus]

You'll lack protein, if I recall correctly.

There are plenty of other sources of protein.

Not the right kinds of proteins.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Ofcourse it's an option, just like just eating pills is an option.

Well, we were getting somewhere, but you currently can't live on just pills. If we got to a point where that was a legitimate option, and it provided substantial health, moral, environmental, or economic advantages to a vegan diet, I'm sure there would be a few pill-itarians.

I don't see any health, moral, enviromental and economical advantages I can't get from eating a diet including meat. The actual vegan part, not consuming any animal product (and that includes A LOT of things, heck most products contain animals anyway; bugs, from the processing, you always get that), stands loose from those things. And if I can, why would I bother with the vegan part? Why would I bother deviating from my natural diet then?

2) Taking supplements isn't cheating, it's just smart.

What he means is that taking pills is only treating the symptoms instead of taking care of the root of the problem: a faulty diet. At least, that's what I think he means.

 

[jasoncyrus]

That's not brain activity and you know it. Just because plants cells grow in the direction of the sun doesn't mean they have a complex central nervous system capable of thought and suffering.

Don't understand what a central nervous system is do you? Central nervous system =/= to what causes thought processes.

As for thoughts, yes they do have them. As demonstrated by the thousands of children able to commune with nature and ask tree questions and get ACCURATE answers.

And yes it IS brain activity, cells ech have their own brain. Hell human brain cells all have their own brain in them.

Obviously you are ut of your depth here mate since you dont understand that a human brain is merely a series of on/off switches etc in an extremely complex setup. It all is just on/off switches. Plants have these too.

So kindly just accept that we've gotten you beat hands down and crawl back under your uninformed rock.

 

[bad rider]

I don't get vegetarianism. Vegan I get, eating meat I get. Vegetarianism (unless alergic to meat) Is saying hey you i disagree with you eating animals, you should only eat certain animals some of the time"
Either keep eating animals or don't. Just quit the "oh I kinda don't wanna eat meat bit."

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

You'll lack protein, if I recall correctly.

There are plenty of other sources of protein.

Not the right kinds of proteins.

I hate to be the internet jackass, but do you have a source on this or are you just pulling this out of your ass?

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

That's not brain activity and you know it. Just because plants cells grow in the direction of the sun doesn't mean they have a complex central nervous system capable of thought and suffering.

As for thoughts, yes they do have them. As demonstrated by the thousands of children able to commune with nature and ask tree questions and get ACCURATE answers.

Okay, you're a total stoner. Good to know.

 

[jasoncyrus]

You'll lack protein, if I recall correctly.

There are plenty of other sources of protein.

Not the right kinds of proteins.

I hate to be the internet jackass, but do you have a source on this or are you just pulling this out of your ass?

Like everything you've posted then?

Okay, you're a total stoner. Good to know.

And you are a completely retarded jackass who can't even understand basic biological functions or facts =)

See, i can play the name game too....except mine is true =P

 

[Abedeus]

Hello? We are not talking about cholersterol.

You said vegetarian diet is healthier. But you also said that "if you don't have something, you can take supplements". That's cheating, you know. That's like taking a medicine for heart problems and ignoring the fact that you eat too much cholesterol... or just too much.

You are losing your main argument - vegetarians are healthier. OF COURSE THEY ARE, IF THEY TAKE PILLS! If you eat only meat and take vitamins, you can claim your diet is healthier. It's not.

Why am I still arguing with you? I have a migrene, and I don't want to waste my time on you. Take some supplements, eat some dirt and you'll be much healthier.

1) I was talking about cholesterol.
2) Taking supplements isn't cheating, it's just smart.
3) I don't want to argue with you either. You're obnoxious.

1) I wasn't. You can have bad cholesterol whether you eat meat or not. LOOK AT ME! I eat tons of meat, I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. I don't have cholesterol problems.

2) Uhm. Yes, it is. You say that diet gives you EVERYTHING you need. It doesn't, stop lying it's healthy. If it was healthy and gave everything you need, you wouldn't have to take the pills.

3) Ooooh that was so mature, I feel my backbone is crying in pain and breaking!

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

You'll lack protein, if I recall correctly.

There are plenty of other sources of protein.

Not the right kinds of proteins.

I hate to be the internet jackass, but do you have a source on this or are you just pulling this out of your ass?

Like everything you've posted then?

Is that what the tree told you?

 

[Abedeus]

What he means is that taking pills is only treating the symptoms instead of taking care of the root of the problem: a faulty diet. At least, that's what I think he means.

Yes, it is. He doesn't have a good diet, he's cheating his bad diet.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

1) I wasn't. You can have bad cholesterol whether you eat meat or not. LOOK AT ME! I eat tons of meat, I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. I don't have cholesterol problems.

2) Uhm. Yes, it is. You say that diet gives you EVERYTHING you need. It doesn't, stop lying it's healthy. If it was healthy and gave everything you need, you wouldn't have to take the pills.

3) Ooooh that was so mature, I feel my backbone is crying in pain and breaking!

1) Sure you don't have cholesterol problems. Yet.
2) I didn't say it gives you everything you need, but it can if you plan it right. Vitimin B12 might give you some problems, but there are ways to get it without using supplements. But, hey, whatever.

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm#reliable