Villains who deserve empathy.

[geldonyetich]

I think every Villain deserves empathy, with the possible exception of the fantasy scenario where they're essentially hellspawn who are physically unable to do good. E.g. mindless zombies. In that case, it's only practical to gun them down and incinerate the remains.

 

[Sylocat]

Dr. Horrible, obviously.

 

[KaZZaP]

Sandman from Spiderman, don't really know if you can call him a villain because he just tried to get money for his daughters operation

Yes his daughter was sick, that totally justifies him trying to kill how many cops and civilians. Not to mention beating the shit out of spidey while venom held him down.

 

[Doc Shaftoe]

Magog from Kingdom Come.

 

[MadeinHell]

Darth Vader. He's such a sad villain, consumed by evil because of love.

In Watchmen, I would say that Rorschach is the pinnicle. Never mind Ozy, I say that at the end, there's no doubt that he was the good guy all along. Rorschach is just plain evil, even if he is well intentioned deep, deep...deep down. But I always found that the point of the character was to show that even someone as crazy and evil as him could be seen in a cool, heroic light.

I think that all villains, no matter how evil or debased, are deserving of empathy, assuming that it is practical to do so without endangering others. They are always worth moral consideration, but no more moral consideration then an individual that they might potentially endanger.

Rorschach is in no way evil. Sure, he is very cruel, but not evil. He knows that the only way to fight with monsters is to become one, and therefore he is almost emotionless and will stop at nothing to punish those who do evil.

He isn't even seen in a heroic light at all. Everyone hates him, nobody supports him, everyone calls him a sociopath. Yet he is the only one who fully believes in justice. Hence

And he's on my top 10 list of coolest good/bad guys ever.

When he died in the end in the movie (which actually sucks all the way up from the "sex in the plane" scene) I was like "WHY?! WHY!? You killed ONLY really cool and actually likable character in the entire fuc*ing movie WHAT THE HELL!

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I think most of the villains in the Priest manwha need some sort of sympathy, unless of course the unreliable narrator is really just a dick, in which case screw him.

Knives from Trigun as well, at least in the manga.

I never had any sympathy/empathy for the Joker, because I think to have those emotions there has to be a human conscience to feel it to, and the Joker is just a creature of instinct. But villains like Mr Freeze, Two Face, Harley and Ivy, especially Harley. Man, I know she's crazy but she's just so pretty...

Uh, anyway, I can never tell with Magneto, mostly because I don't think the writer up there at Marvel Asylum for the terminally stupid know what to do with him anymore.

And of course, Ozymandias and Rorsarch. Ooh boy. While I can't condone anything that Ozymandias did, I can understand it, and see why, which can sort of lead to empathy, but equally, Rorsarch, however psycho, however right wing and nutjob, was just as right. The ending to that story is one of the most morally ambiguous I've ever read. Mostly I think I'd fall somewhere where Dan Dreidberg did, understanding, but buggering off as soon as possible, to try and get away from all of it.

EDIT- And just for funsies, I'll add that Alan Moore didn't intend for the character of Rorsarch to be seen in a positive light at all, he describes him outright as a right-wing nutjob. According to Mr Moore, anyone who sympathises with Rorsarch has the wrong end of the stick, though he hasn't come out in support of Ozymandias either. The ultimate villains of his story are Russian and American politicians, in his eyes. He just wrote Rorsarch as being too cool, so it led to a lot of misaimed fandom.

 

[Xanadu84]

In Watchmen, I would say that Rorschach is the pinnicle. Never mind Ozy, I say that at the end, there's no doubt that he was the good guy all along. Rorschach is just plain evil, even if he is well intentioned deep, deep...deep down. But I always found that the point of the character was to show that even someone as crazy and evil as him could be seen in a cool, heroic light.

I think that all villains, no matter how evil or debased, are deserving of empathy, assuming that it is practical to do so without endangering others. They are always worth moral consideration, but no more moral consideration then an individual that they might potentially endanger.

Rorschach is in no way evil. Sure, he is very cruel, but not evil. He knows that the only way to fight with monsters is to become one, and therefore he is almost emotionless and will stop at nothing to punish those who do evil.

He isn't even seen in a heroic light at all. Everyone hates him, nobody supports him, everyone calls him a sociopath. Yet he is the only one who fully believes in justice. Hence "Never compromise, even in the face of armageddon"

To a good chunk of the world he isn't seen in a heroic light. But that's practically the number 1 hallmark of being a hero in fiction. Batman is certainly seen as a hero, but often times, the world sees him as an evil vigilante.

Also, Rorschach is far from emotionless. He carries a hell of a lot of hatred for intellectuals, liberals, homosexuals and prostitutes for one, and he definitely gets a lot of enjoyment out of hurting people who fall on the bad side of the spectrum, whether they are murderers or happen to be annoying him at the time. He also is willing so let millions, if not billions, of people die in order to not compromise the beliefs he enjoys. He is not a hero, he is simply a more realistic villain. The fact that that can be easily confused with a hero is very telling of human nature, and I suspect is the point of his character. Empathy for him is necessary, you can't help but appreciate the force in which he tries to make the world a better place, and he has his moments, but you can't confuse an appreciation of his strength with the status of hero. He doesn't turn into a hero, he makes you reconsider what's really happening in the heads of all the real villains of the real world.

 

[Blatherscythe]

In Watchmen, I would say that Rorschach is the pinnicle. Never mind Ozy, I say that at the end, there's no doubt that he was the good guy all along. Rorschach is just plain evil, even if he is well intentioned deep, deep...deep down. But I always found that the point of the character was to show that even someone as crazy and evil as him could be seen in a cool, heroic light.

I think that all villains, no matter how evil or debased, are deserving of empathy, assuming that it is practical to do so without endangering others. They are always worth moral consideration, but no more moral consideration then an individual that they might potentially endanger.

He was the _only_ Superhero, amongst them. The rest were too caught up with their own fuckin character flaws. I was angry when he died. I disagree though, he wasn't evil, he was justice in a time when everyone makes excuses to do anything BUT justice. That conversation he had with the black laywer, just before he got put into General Population, was brilliantly written, and really explains it well.

He really didn't need to die, who was going to listen to Rorschach anyway? He was deemed insane by even his partner Daniel, the only threat to Ozzy's peace was his journal and even then it was his, who would pay attention to it? Really it was his fixed morals (wouldn't compromise with injustice) that killed him, what Ozzy did was for the best, the cost was extreamly high but it prevented WW3. Ozzy is a villain for the murder of the millions in New York but he saved the billions that would have died if the nukes started flying.

That's what made him a Superhero above all others though, the rest of them moved on and busied themselves with their lives, 'Hiding in plain sight' as it were. Rorshach never stopped, never compromised, never waivered. When mercy was warranted...you lived. When it wasn't, you didn't. I don't think it prevented WW3, I think it merely pushed it back a few extra years...possibly making it an even WORSE conflict, when it does occur. (This is of course, all highly hypothetical lol)

Hence what Dr. Manhattan said at the end: "Nothing ever ends"

Oh let's not forget the last page. "Semour I'm leaving it entirely in your hands" with Semour reaching for Rorshachs journel.

 

[ioxles]

I'd go with Grant Morrison for "Villain who deserves Empathy" in Animal Man.

Here me out now.

Do not read the following if you do not wish animal man to be spoiled, as all of it will be a spoiler, no hiding it in [/spoiler], just don't read it.

Morrison is a writer of comic books, famous for it in fact, and once upon a time he revived the long forgotten career of a minor super hero call Animal Man in the DC Universe, the one with Super Man and the Justice League and all that malarkey.

Throughout his run Animal Man became more and more aware of his existence and consciousness, his powers grew as he became more self aware and was fleshed out. Other characters imbued with semi-conciousness or, minor characters, felt as if they didn't even exist when he wasn't around.

This culminates with a big drug trip towards the end, Animal Man crossing over to "reality" or somewhere where Morrison could talk to him, and Morrison himself appearing and telling him how he had controlled his life, why he had killed of his family, why he was written differently when with the Justice League etc, it's all a big mindfuck, and to be honest, apart from this last paragraph I haven't really spoiled much. So go read it.

 

[Space Spoons]

I think Magneto pretty much defines the Sympathetic Villain trope. His entire life, he's pretty much been a punching bag of the system. Initially, it was the Nazis who imprisoned him and his family. Later, it was average, every day humans who would conspire to deny his mutant brethren their very right to existence.

To me, Magneto was sort of the Malcom X of mutants, in the same way Professor Xavier was the Martin Luther King. While Xavier stressed non-violent opposition to injustice and hope for integration, Magneto believed the only way mutants would ever be truly free from human oppression would be to separate the races indefinitely.

Magneto's not an evil man. He just wants justice for his people, and isn't above using lethal force to see justice done.

Magog from Kingdom Come.

Definitely agree with this. It's pretty obvious that his intentions were good, even if his methods weren't. He's one of the only "new generation" Meta-Humans that seems to really grasp the magnitude of everything that happened since Superman's departure.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Count Bleck aka me :]

 

[Demongeneral109]

Ok, I know this is going to piss people off, but Kira from Death Note. He was the villan regardless of his position as protagonist. He did everything to rid the world of crinimals and make it a better place, what defeated him was his Ego. Like Rorshach( the running argument in this thread) he used extreme methods to make the world a better place, and thrilled in killing those he judged as criminals. It leads to the question "was he right?" the writer of the series was shocked with how many wanted the 'villan' to win in the end.

Perhaps the truly complex villans are those who have understandable motives (seriously, most villans are stupidly evil, and seem to want to take over the world just because they can, the truly great villans are the ones for which the 'villan' status doesn't really fit, rather than the ones that just reek of evil) (Bad villan=emperor Palpatine, good villan=Lelouch from Code Geass) Thats my opion anyway

 

[Cowabungaa]

The Penguin, especially the Batman Returns version. Victim of circumstances he was, poor sod.

 

[TheTaco007]

Watchmen spoiler:

Spoiler

Ozymandias - Saved the whole damn world by being a villain

 

[rathorn14]

I feel that most, if not all villains, are deserving of empathy. Most do not see themselves as the bad guy. They either don't feel that what they are doing is evil, or they see it as a necessary evil that benefits the greater good. With that in mind, you can understand that if their actions are somehow logically justifiable in their own minds, then that logic would seem justifiable if presented to others. Thus, others can empathize.

 

[AgentNein]

Watchmen spoiler:

Spoiler

Ozymandias - Saved the whole damn world by being a villain

I think the whole point of Watchmen is that none of these characters are villains...or heroes. They're just people. People who hold power over other people (great or small) and feel entitled to use that power to 'protect people from themselves'. But who's watching THEM!? (dun dun DUN)

 

[bioshockedcriticjrr]

Kessler from InFamous, the link should explain why better than I can.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87PTASpeVdg

Also, there's Brock from Dead Rising, kindof. Really just a guy doing his job.

that Mexican guy too, cause the guy essentially lost his entire village to America's stupid cloning experiments,
However mine is a classic example: the original frankenstein monster. His master abandons him and the only people who ever showed him the closest thing to love (indirectly, I should mention) threw him out like all the other humans he ever encountered

 

[bioshockedcriticjrr]

In Watchmen, I would say that Rorschach is the pinnicle. Never mind Ozy, I say that at the end, there's no doubt that he was the good guy all along. Rorschach is just plain evil, even if he is well intentioned deep, deep...deep down. But I always found that the point of the character was to show that even someone as crazy and evil as him could be seen in a cool, heroic light.

I think that all villains, no matter how evil or debased, are deserving of empathy, assuming that it is practical to do so without endangering others. They are always worth moral consideration, but no more moral consideration then an individual that they might potentially endanger.

good point, on both accounts. In the real world there is no such thing as good or evil, just people who are victims and people who are victors. one of the many things I like about pixar movies. Aside from the first two, the villains have actually good reasons for being villains

 

[BloodyThoughts]

Every single officer from Skate 2.

No matter what they do they just can't stop me from skating. Why they just don't let me die is a question that has gone unanswered.

 

[Kuchinawa212]

Darth Vader. Yeah he was a terrible man that did terrible things so that the one he loved could live. But he used his power to save his son and defeat the evil that lied to him for so long

actually, I'm surprised it took so long to mention this.

yeah XD
but I could always understand the guy. He was not only cool, but he had depth. he wasn't out to be evil just to be a jerk (see darth maul) but he had a reason