The people are, dude. Read the Dark Heresy books and any of the other lore entries regarding the common man in the Imperium. Most, if not all, of them are paranoid agoraphobics who'd glady hang their best friend if they thought for a second they were a mutant, let alone an alien.
Xenos tolerance is the province of higher-ranking members of society, who know more truths than the indoctrinated masses. The average guy would sooner die than interact with an alien, and would turn over to the inquisition anybody they knew who had so much looked at a xeno and not repented for a year.
My statement was: "not every citizen of the Imperium is a xenophobic fanatic". It is a true statement. You picked it apart just to criticize one possible interpretation of it, and then to agree with it? I'm a little unsure what agoraphobia has to do with all this, though.
Did not read those specific books, but from what I did it is easy to see that in the Hive Cities in the Imperium there are millions(billions?) of people who give less than a damn about anything outside of their daily needs and whims. For example, it's naive to think gangs roaming the Lower City are believers in any sense of the word.
The Emperor was kind of short sighted in his choice there as Russ and Magnus hated each others guts. So why he thought this wouldn't go pear shaped, we'll never know.
This decision was sort of explained in Prospero Burns/A Thousand Sons. At the time the Wolves were the only legion that were perefctly fine with fighting other Astartes. The Wolves admit they are meant to be the Emperor's executioners. Russ was pretty much the only choice, as no other legion could be relised on to put the Thousand Sons down if they resisted, which they did, initially against Magnus's orders.
Ah well I've read Prospero Burns but not A Thousand Sons yet. It doesn't make much sense to me. The Emperor could have sent a Primarch friendly to Magnus and asked him to return to Terra. Instead he sent one who hates Magnus and his ways to bring him home. Even before Horus altered the Emperor's orders from capture to destroy, it was going to end badly.
Except sending Russ was the whole point. Magnus HAD to be punished, no question. His disobedience of the Council of Nikea destroyed YEARS of work and hundreds of lives. The Emperor couldn't let it stand, and he KNEW the only two Primarchs capable of bringing Magnus in were either Angron or Russ, but Russ was the only one that would actually TRY to take him in alive. You read Prospero Burns, so you know he actually asks Magnus for surrender and lets him evacuate the whole damn planet.
And if you read A Thousand Sons, you'd know that:
Magnus knew he'd fucked up pretty badly and was actually going to give himself up to Russ. He even psychically masked his approach from Ahriman and the other seers of the Legion, but they found out anyway. And they were not going to give up their Primarch without a fight, which is why Prospero was annihilated.
Define "Good Guys". They're working to destroy the Imperium so that the rest of the galaxy will be saved. So...good-ish in morality but not Imperial aligned.
The Imperium "won" the heresy so presumably the Alpha Legion are still on their original plan of "destroy the Imperium and mankind so the rest of the galaxy is spared"
Also either Alpharius or Omegon or even both of them are considered still living. Roboute Guillimon hunted down and killed "the primarch of the Alpha Legion" after they trolled him halfway across the galaxy but given that nobody but the Alphas and the Emperor knew there were actually two primarchs and the Alpha legion's habit for dressing identically, having surgery so they look like their primarchs and all claim to be Alpharius when asked who they are...it is unclear who Roboute killed
?The Alpha Legion has always, always, been for the Emperor.? I more or less agree with you, but I just wanted to point out that they consider themselves to be Imperial aligned (assuming they haven't been corrupted and shit), even though they fight the Imperium.
-Dark Eldar don't just seem to not use Farseers and Warlocks and what have you, they are stated to not be psychic altogether. No explanation as to how this difference from Craftworld Eldar took place.
The Dark Eldar lost their psychic powers over time because all Dark Eldar with Psyker genes/abilities suffered a greater thirst for Souls due to their increased connection with the Warp, leaving only those who lacked (or had a subdued version of?) this trait.
.
To quote the Lexicanum:
On the Dark Eldar said:
However, Dark Eldar psykers are virtually unheard-of. The innate psychic abilities common to the Eldar race have atrophied within the Dark Eldar, partly due to their focus on physical athleticism. As well, to use any psychic powers would draw the attention of Slaanesh, and is one of the few things expressly forbidden within Commorragh.
-and while Dark Eldar do make use of psychic devices, they do not use psychic powers themselves, for in order to use their gifts Psykers must channel the chaotic energies of The Warp. Such an act would attract the gaze of She Who Thirsts and invite disaster upon the entire race. As such, the use of the psychic pyrotechnics that are so familiar to their Craftworld kin is one of the few things forbidden in the dark spires of Commorragh.
I don't really play anymore, but I'm still interested in the fluff, despite Craftworld Eldar getting bugger all new fluff most of the time. Same old, same old by the looks of it.
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Define "Good Guys". They're working to destroy the Imperium so that the rest of the galaxy will be saved. So...good-ish in morality but not Imperial aligned.
The Imperium "won" the heresy so presumably the Alpha Legion are still on their original plan of "destroy the Imperium and mankind so the rest of the galaxy is spared"
Also either Alpharius or Omegon or even both of them are considered still living. Roboute Guillimon hunted down and killed "the primarch of the Alpha Legion" after they trolled him halfway across the galaxy but given that nobody but the Alphas and the Emperor knew there were actually two primarchs and the Alpha legion's habit for dressing identically, having surgery so they look like their primarchs and all claim to be Alpharius when asked who they are...it is unclear who Roboute killed
?The Alpha Legion has always, always, been for the Emperor.? I more or less agree with you, but I just wanted to point out that they consider themselves to be Imperial aligned (assuming they haven't been corrupted and shit), even though they fight the Imperium.
Loyal to the Emperor in the same way that a Doctor who commits Euphanasia as an act of mercy cares for his patient if you'll pardon that expression. They are loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium as they was 10,000 years ago. They view the beaurocratic hell it has become with distain and disgust, as the ruination of the Emperor's once great dream and consider what they are doing putting it out of it's misery.
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Yeah that's basically right. Humanity needs to die to save the Galaxy. Because the Chaos gods feed mainly on the emotions (NOT religious worship as some believe, although the emotions generated from religious worship do help) of Mankind. Destroying Mankind would basically starve the gods.
However. This was at the point where Humanity was the dominant species in the Galaxy at the time. Since then obviously other races (Orks, Tyranids, Chaos traitors themselves) also sustain the Chaos gods a lot more then they did at the time of the Horus Heresy. If Horus had won at that time then he would have ruled the Galaxy but it would eventually wipe itself out through civil war and destroy the Chaos gods.
So what the Alpha Legion are fighting for now is quite hazy as even if Chaos eventually won, there's no guarantee the gods would die.
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Yeah that's basically right. Humanity needs to die to save the Galaxy. Because the Chaos gods feed mainly on the emotions (NOT religious worship as some believe, although the emotions generated from religious worship do help) of Mankind. Destroying Mankind would basically starve the gods.
However. This was at the point where Humanity was the dominant species in the Galaxy at the time. Since then obviously other races (Orks, Tyranids, Chaos traitors themselves) also sustain the Chaos gods a lot more then they did at the time of the Horus Heresy. If Horus had won at that time then he would have ruled the Galaxy but it would eventually wipe itself out through civil war and destroy the Chaos gods.
So what the Alpha Legion are fighting for now is quite hazy as even if Chaos eventually won, there's no guarantee the gods would die.
Actually, I dont think any other codex race feeds the chaos gods, apart from eldar when you break their stones, but even then it wouldnt be enough to sustain them.
Ork souls go to Gork and Mork
Tau are psychically negative, their souls dont show up in the warp, so the gods dont eat them.
Tyranids have no souls, there is only the hive mind and the synapse creatures
Necrons have no souls either, the star gods ate them
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Yeah that's basically right. Humanity needs to die to save the Galaxy. Because the Chaos gods feed mainly on the emotions (NOT religious worship as some believe, although the emotions generated from religious worship do help) of Mankind. Destroying Mankind would basically starve the gods.
However. This was at the point where Humanity was the dominant species in the Galaxy at the time. Since then obviously other races (Orks, Tyranids, Chaos traitors themselves) also sustain the Chaos gods a lot more then they did at the time of the Horus Heresy. If Horus had won at that time then he would have ruled the Galaxy but it would eventually wipe itself out through civil war and destroy the Chaos gods.
So what the Alpha Legion are fighting for now is quite hazy as even if Chaos eventually won, there's no guarantee the gods would die.
Actually, I dont think any other codex race feeds the chaos gods, apart from eldar when you break their stones, but even then it wouldnt be enough to sustain them.
Ork souls go to Gork and Mork
Tau are psychically negative, their souls dont show up in the warp, so the gods dont eat them.
Tyranids have no souls, there is only the hive mind and the synapse creatures
Necrons have no souls either, the star gods ate them
Ahh I wasn't sure about the Nids and I'd forgotten about Gork and Mork!
All this raises the question though; Why the hell are the Chaos gods letting their followers wage war on the loyal Imperium? They must have realised what will happen if humanity dies by now?
I got into WH because of the PS2 Game, Firewarrior. Then I started playing Tau.
My memory isn't brilliant, But I think at one stage, the Ultramarine you deal with states that you (the player / Kaise) has earned his respect.
That's my best guess as to why Tau and Ultramarines are now buddies.
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Yeah that's basically right. Humanity needs to die to save the Galaxy. Because the Chaos gods feed mainly on the emotions (NOT religious worship as some believe, although the emotions generated from religious worship do help) of Mankind. Destroying Mankind would basically starve the gods.
However. This was at the point where Humanity was the dominant species in the Galaxy at the time. Since then obviously other races (Orks, Tyranids, Chaos traitors themselves) also sustain the Chaos gods a lot more then they did at the time of the Horus Heresy. If Horus had won at that time then he would have ruled the Galaxy but it would eventually wipe itself out through civil war and destroy the Chaos gods.
So what the Alpha Legion are fighting for now is quite hazy as even if Chaos eventually won, there's no guarantee the gods would die.
Actually, I dont think any other codex race feeds the chaos gods, apart from eldar when you break their stones, but even then it wouldnt be enough to sustain them.
Ork souls go to Gork and Mork
Tau are psychically negative, their souls dont show up in the warp, so the gods dont eat them.
Tyranids have no souls, there is only the hive mind and the synapse creatures
Necrons have no souls either, the star gods ate them
Ahh I wasn't sure about the Nids and I'd forgotten about Gork and Mork!
All this raises the question though; Why the hell are the Chaos gods letting their followers wage war on the loyal Imperium? They must have realised what will happen if humanity dies by now?
Because there are still countless other races that would provide for them. They feed on emotions, they are basically eternal as long as something FEELS. They do not need to eat souls to survive, at all, so where the souls go, if they do go anywhere, doesn't change a thing.
So basically, as long as there are Orks, Khorne will survive, for example.
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Yeah that's basically right. Humanity needs to die to save the Galaxy. Because the Chaos gods feed mainly on the emotions (NOT religious worship as some believe, although the emotions generated from religious worship do help) of Mankind. Destroying Mankind would basically starve the gods.
However. This was at the point where Humanity was the dominant species in the Galaxy at the time. Since then obviously other races (Orks, Tyranids, Chaos traitors themselves) also sustain the Chaos gods a lot more then they did at the time of the Horus Heresy. If Horus had won at that time then he would have ruled the Galaxy but it would eventually wipe itself out through civil war and destroy the Chaos gods.
So what the Alpha Legion are fighting for now is quite hazy as even if Chaos eventually won, there's no guarantee the gods would die.
Actually, I dont think any other codex race feeds the chaos gods, apart from eldar when you break their stones, but even then it wouldnt be enough to sustain them.
Ork souls go to Gork and Mork
Tau are psychically negative, their souls dont show up in the warp, so the gods dont eat them.
Tyranids have no souls, there is only the hive mind and the synapse creatures
Necrons have no souls either, the star gods ate them
Ahh I wasn't sure about the Nids and I'd forgotten about Gork and Mork!
All this raises the question though; Why the hell are the Chaos gods letting their followers wage war on the loyal Imperium? They must have realised what will happen if humanity dies by now?
Because there are still countless other races that would provide for them. They feed on emotions, they are basically eternal as long as something FEELS. They do not need to eat souls to survive, at all, so where the souls go, if they do go anywhere, doesn't change a thing.
So basically, as long as there are Orks, Khorne will survive, for example.
See the comment by [user]Sigma Castell[/user] that I'd quoted;
Ork emotions and souls go to Gork and Mork
Necrons are machines
Tyranids are a hive mind
Tau are not warp sensitive
Eldar don't contribute to any significant degree anymore after creating the 4th god. There isn't enough of then to matter and most of their souls are contained within Soulstones specifically so they don't get eaten.
Humanity are the only ones who feed the Chaos gods
I've been thinking about the Ultra Tau thing a lot since last post.
I might have an explanation.
Tau are young and optimistic. They are also a bit like those annoying door-to-door religion nuts IRL. (*knock knock* "Hi, have you heard about the Greater Good?" *door slam*).
I can imagine a situation in which some of the races might want a sort of "Free Trial" before joining, then just bugger off. Dine and Dash.
Or, "We will think about joining if you help us shoot some Chaos."..."Ok, We've thought about it. No thanks."
Also, consider the Farsight Enclave. Last I checked, (It was a while ago), O'Shovah was running a No-Etherials-Allowed mercenary operation?
Regarding Tyranids fighting eachother. Unless they have a method of fighting without spending energy to generate movement and heat, that energy will be lost.
The Biomass of fallen 'Nids can be harvested, but all the moving about that the dead 'Nid did can't be harvested.
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Yeah that's basically right. Humanity needs to die to save the Galaxy. Because the Chaos gods feed mainly on the emotions (NOT religious worship as some believe, although the emotions generated from religious worship do help) of Mankind. Destroying Mankind would basically starve the gods.
However. This was at the point where Humanity was the dominant species in the Galaxy at the time. Since then obviously other races (Orks, Tyranids, Chaos traitors themselves) also sustain the Chaos gods a lot more then they did at the time of the Horus Heresy. If Horus had won at that time then he would have ruled the Galaxy but it would eventually wipe itself out through civil war and destroy the Chaos gods.
So what the Alpha Legion are fighting for now is quite hazy as even if Chaos eventually won, there's no guarantee the gods would die.
Actually, I dont think any other codex race feeds the chaos gods, apart from eldar when you break their stones, but even then it wouldnt be enough to sustain them.
Ork souls go to Gork and Mork
Tau are psychically negative, their souls dont show up in the warp, so the gods dont eat them.
Tyranids have no souls, there is only the hive mind and the synapse creatures
Necrons have no souls either, the star gods ate them
Ahh I wasn't sure about the Nids and I'd forgotten about Gork and Mork!
All this raises the question though; Why the hell are the Chaos gods letting their followers wage war on the loyal Imperium? They must have realised what will happen if humanity dies by now?
Because there are still countless other races that would provide for them. They feed on emotions, they are basically eternal as long as something FEELS. They do not need to eat souls to survive, at all, so where the souls go, if they do go anywhere, doesn't change a thing.
So basically, as long as there are Orks, Khorne will survive, for example.
See the comment by [user]Sigma Castell[/user] that I'd quoted;
Ork emotions and souls go to Gork and Mork
Necrons are machines
Tyranids are a hive mind
Tau are not warp sensitive
Eldar don't contribute to any significant degree anymore after creating the 4th god. There isn't enough of then to matter and most of their souls are contained within Soulstones specifically so they don't get eaten.
Humanity are the only ones who feed the Chaos gods
A) Ork emotions still feed the Chaos Gods, and they can be corrupted by Chaos too.
B) True
C) Also True
D) Just because they aren't warp sensitive doesn't mean they don't feel. The Chaos gods still feed on them.
E) Eldar and Dark Eldar still contribute, just not to the same excessive debauchery they did before the Fall
And that still leaves the Hrud, the Demiurg, Enslavers, Yu'Vath, and countless other races out there.
So no, humanity aren't the only ones that feed the Chaos gods. The Chaos gods existed before humanity, they will still exist after it.
The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.
So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.
Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)
Yeah that's basically right. Humanity needs to die to save the Galaxy. Because the Chaos gods feed mainly on the emotions (NOT religious worship as some believe, although the emotions generated from religious worship do help) of Mankind. Destroying Mankind would basically starve the gods.
However. This was at the point where Humanity was the dominant species in the Galaxy at the time. Since then obviously other races (Orks, Tyranids, Chaos traitors themselves) also sustain the Chaos gods a lot more then they did at the time of the Horus Heresy. If Horus had won at that time then he would have ruled the Galaxy but it would eventually wipe itself out through civil war and destroy the Chaos gods.
So what the Alpha Legion are fighting for now is quite hazy as even if Chaos eventually won, there's no guarantee the gods would die.
I'm a Warhammer 40k neophyte, so I'm probably missing a lot, but I'm going to go with the Alpha Legion being insane and/or manipulated into believing these things by some Chaos God(probably Tzeentch), because that doesn't make any sense to all to me. I've never known any human organization to do anything more than tenuously tolerate aliens when they're not trying to outright eradicate them, much less willing to sacrifice their entire species, and their Emperor, for them.
In addition, from the perspective of the time of the Horus Heresy, in their minds whether they join or not, humanity will fall and if it falls sooner rather than later, it will tear itself apart...while later it wouldn't? I don't see why the nature of Chaos would have changed with time where it wouldn't tear itself apart, if it was going to in the first place. Makes me think more that this is closer to a mass case similar to the mother in The Binding of Isaac("I have to kill you to save you from the devil!")
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