Warhammer 40000 6th Edition: Hope at last

[someonehairy-ish]

I'm a pretty big 40k fluff geek, don't play the table top though.

yeah this is one theory, I think it's called the star child theory, things is though after the emperors webway experiment backfired it left a gateway to terra opening pretty much by the golden throne. the emperoris keeping the gateway sealed whilst on the golden throne, if he dies chaos floods terra and the universe.

so if the emperor would be reborn would there be anything left to save?

Well, the way things work is that worship and sacrifice increase the power of certain Chaos Gods. Worship Khorne and Khorne gets stronger, etc. The Emperor currently has billions of people worshiping him and billions of psykers are sacrificed to him, meaning that if he died he would be reincarnated as a massive warp presence similar to a Chaos God and the whole of the Imperium (read: a massive chunk of the galaxy) would be some kind of holy eye of terror. So the imperial citizens probably wouldn't die, they might even be somehow empowered - and then the God-Emperor would easily wipe out the Chaos Gods and every enemy of mankind in the galaxy.

So you end up with some kind of glorious empire of man, now with a literal God and no resistance at all.
Probably.

So I've been out of the loop for quite some time with Warhammer 40k as far as the table top is concerned so answer me this: Tau/Ultramarine alliance? What? Please explain.

No idea. Blame Matt Ward.

 

[Xpwn3ntial]

So I've been out of the loop for quite some time with Warhammer 40k as far as the table top is concerned so answer me this: Tau/Ultramarine alliance? What? Please explain.

Tau are pretty live and let live, agreeing to team up with just about anyone if they think the ceasefire will last long enough to go home.

The Ultramarines are (by Space Marine standards) rather practical. They'd rather have the plasma rifles and railguns pointed at Tyranids than at themselves if that's a possibility. They also know that Tau fighting Tyranids means fewer Tyranids for the Ultramarines to fight.

Since they live in the same section of the galaxy and are constantly under threat of Tyranids more than anywhere else, they agree to work together sometimes. When it's over, they go home since the Damocles Crusade taught both the Tau and Ultramarines that attrition will get neither of them anywhere.

Hey, it's better than Necrons and Blood Angels teaming up and parting peacefully for no other reason than Tyranids attacking.

 

[TheFinish]

snip

It's best to quote people or they get no message saying there's been a reply and they're likely to miss it.

I tried to, but my browser decided to turn on me like Skynet on humanity.

 

[regalphantom]

So I've been out of the loop for quite some time with Warhammer 40k as far as the table top is concerned so answer me this: Tau/Ultramarine alliance? What? Please explain.

There were a few crazy rumors floating around the internet when this was first leaked, but as far as I can tell, it's not so much a "Tau/Ultramarine" alliance, but a "Tau/Codex Marine" alliance. Basically, its denoting that, given that the Tau are possibly the only major race in 40k whose stated goals do not necessarily include wiping out every other sentient species in the Galaxy, and the fact that there are a large number of chapters that are liberally minded when it comes to Xenos interactions (compared with to say, the Black Templars), that the Tau/Marine alliance merely represents the fact that it is entirely plausible that certain chapters of Marines can work with the Tau against a common enemy, opposed to some outright political alliance. The reason that non-codex marines don't the alliance is because they either would not ally with Xenos (such as Templars) or that they simply operate outside of the small corner of the Galaxy where the Tau Empire exists.

As another note, the alliance between Blood Angels and Necrons refers to a briefly mentioned by widely popular blurb from the Necrons Codex (and possibly the BA Codex) where the Silent King and a chapter of blood angels teamed up to defeat the invading Nids, and then afterwards both left because their forces were too exhausted for one side to be able to defeat the other. This shows that the bar for determining alliances is rather low.

As a final point, anybody else angry that Tyranids can't take IG as allies? I personally think it would be cool to be able to play as a Genestealer cult.

 

[Waaghpowa]

-

I get the part with the Tau, they were my main army back in the day. I was always under the impression that the Imperium wouldn't work with Xeno's no matter what the reason. I assume that's a Matt Ward thing?

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

Personally I'm cool with the new lore as I understand it thus far. I'm especially happy with what they doing with the Necrons. They went from immortal undead robo-zombies to immortal undead robo-Tomb Kings, which is actually a massive change. They think, react and a ctually have emotions and plans instead of the mindless "kill everyone cause the C'tan say so"

Now, with the Silent King (The #1 Necron) coming back and going "Hey assholes, see those bug things, they a issue", makes sense he allies with whomever would listen. The Inquisition might not like it, but the Space marines have seemingly been more and motre likely the tell the Inquisition to fuck off.

If the Silent King can re-awaken and bring into line all the Necron Dynasties and throw them at the Tyranids, honestly, I don;t care how many tyranids there are, they fucked. Pure and simple. They can't absorb or learn genetically from the Necrons, the Necrons are leagues and light years ahead of them technology wise and they still do the whole "egt getting up and phasing out when beaten" bit. So every battle, even if the Tyranids win, they have nothing to replenish themselves from.

So, pretty much why I'm not worried per say about the Tyranids eating everything. They doomed the minute they start fighting the Necrons in any way.

(also, in 5th, they clearly state the Tyranids avoided tomb worlds, like massive detours around them. That still the case in 6th?)

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

I get the part with the Tau, they were my main army back in the day. I was always under the impression that the Imperium wouldn't work with Xeno's no matter what the reason. I assume that's a Matt Ward thing?

That's correct to a point. That's an Inquisition thing, and even then only certan branches. The Space marines by and large have an annoying habit of thinking for themselves and they seem to be more and more telling the Inquisition to fuck off. Haven't the Space Wolves basically banned them from their space on pain of death?

 

[Waaghpowa]

I get the part with the Tau, they were my main army back in the day. I was always under the impression that the Imperium wouldn't work with Xeno's no matter what the reason. I assume that's a Matt Ward thing?

That's correct to a point. That's an Inquisition thing, and even then only certan branches. The Space marines by and large have an annoying habit of thinking for themselves and they seem to be more and more telling the Inquisition to fuck off. Haven't the Space Wolves basically banned them from their space on pain of death?

As I've said, I've been out of the loop for a while. Last time I played the table top was the second edition of Tau rules was released. I should really start reading up again since my knowledge of the lore is fairly old at this point.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

To all of you asking, no, the Tau/Ultramarine Alliance is not in the book. The only reason there was speculation came from the new Allies system, which put the Space Marines and the Tau as brofist strong allies.

There is no fluff that says that they have a ceasefire. The only reason that they would be considered strong allies is because any opponent they'd face would be the greater threat to both.

 

[Augustine]

I get the part with the Tau, they were my main army back in the day. I was always under the impression that the Imperium wouldn't work with Xeno's no matter what the reason. I assume that's a Matt Ward thing?

That's correct to a point. That's an Inquisition thing, and even then only certan branches. The Space marines by and large have an annoying habit of thinking for themselves and they seem to be more and more telling the Inquisition to fuck off. Haven't the Space Wolves basically banned them from their space on pain of death?

There's plenty of examples in the literature of individuals, including members of Inquisition, that do not see every Xenos as a mortal foe. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Actual people of Imperium are not all xenophobic fanatics, despite what Ministorum would like to suggest.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Forget Lore, the Hammer of Wrath special rule and new Psychic Powers are enough to make 6th edition Best Edition. Add in Warlords, new missions, allied detachments (Traitor Guard for my Traitor Marines! Forward, Chaos-Chenkov and Cultist Conscripts!), flyers, flying monstrous creatures! and AP values for melee weapons and games are now an incredibly rich experience.

Telepathy is best -pathy, have you seen the rules for Invisibility!?

Oh yeah, and a new Black Crusade, which I happen to be a fan of.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Actual people of Imperium are not all xenophobic fanatics, despite what Ministorum would like to suggest.

The people are, dude. Read the Dark Heresy books and any of the other lore entries regarding the common man in the Imperium. Most, if not all, of them are paranoid agoraphobics who'd glady hang their best friend if they thought for a second they were a mutant, let alone an alien.

Xenos tolerance is the province of higher-ranking members of society, who know more truths than the indoctrinated masses. The average guy would sooner die than interact with an alien, and would turn over to the inquisition anybody they knew who had so much looked at a xeno and not repented for a year.

 

[TimeLord]

I would like to point out that Malcador the Sigilite, Regent of Terra, had to sit on the Golden Throne while the Emperor fought Horus. Know what happened to him? He turned to dust, is what happened. And he was a powerful psyker on his own right.

Malcador was the only choice available to the Emperor at the time of the assualt on Terra. Originally the Golden Throne was designed for Magnus the Red to use as the Emperor revealed this to him when he psychically broke into the vaults below Terra to warn the Emperor of Horus' rebellion. If I remember correctly then the Emperor sent the Space Wolves to bring Magnus back to Terra to answer for his crimes (and presumably be chained to the Golden Throne for all time to say sorry) but Horus altered the orders so that Russ would attack and destroy the Thousand Sons instead of capturing Magnus.

The Emperor was kind of short sighted in his choice there as Russ and Magnus hated each others guts. So why he thought this wouldn't go pear shaped, we'll never know.

 

[TimeLord]

I always liked the Ultramarines...'before it was cool', as many have said. I have never liked how everyone slams on them because they're 'bland'. *Someone* had to be the 'standard' for the Marines, and almost by definition that's going to make them more 'generic' than the Unique Snowflakes everyone seems to like.

The Ultramarines are hated by myself because they get cool stuff and can do no wrong in Matt Ward's mind. They get cool Honor guard models, a badass IC (Marneus Calgar) etc. Ward designed them as basically the perfect legion that can do no wrong. Never corrupted, never traitors they are loyal to the Emperor etc and their Primarch was the one who created the Codex Astarties that all legions are (supposed) to follow. Which makes the choice of legion for the book (Dark Angels) interesting because they loophole the Codex by having a supreme ruler of the Dark Angel and their successor chapters. Which makes them technically still one legion as opposed to split chapters.

I love the Horus Heresy time because they got trolled good by the Alpha Legion and in the Ultramarines movie that came out last year, they got corrupted by a Daemon

 

[MrPeanut]

I would like to point out that Malcador the Sigilite, Regent of Terra, had to sit on the Golden Throne while the Emperor fought Horus. Know what happened to him? He turned to dust, is what happened. And he was a powerful psyker on his own right.

Malcador was the only choice available to the Emperor at the time of the assualt on Terra. Originally the Golden Throne was designed for Magnus the Red to use as the Emperor revealed this to him when he psychically broke into the vaults below Terra to warn the Emperor of Horus' rebellion. If I remember correctly then the Emperor sent the Space Wolves to bring Magnus back to Terra to answer for his crimes (and presumably be chained to the Golden Throne for all time to say sorry) but Horus altered the orders so that Russ would attack and destroy the Thousand Sons instead of capturing Magnus.

The Emperor was kind of short sighted in his choice there as Russ and Magnus hated each others guts. So why he thought this wouldn't go pear shaped, we'll never know.

Well, for someone portrayed as a demigod, he sure seems to be clumsy when dealing with the Primarchs (on the maybe 3 instances he is present, anyway).

 

[TimeLord]

I would like to point out that Malcador the Sigilite, Regent of Terra, had to sit on the Golden Throne while the Emperor fought Horus. Know what happened to him? He turned to dust, is what happened. And he was a powerful psyker on his own right.

Malcador was the only choice available to the Emperor at the time of the assualt on Terra. Originally the Golden Throne was designed for Magnus the Red to use as the Emperor revealed this to him when he psychically broke into the vaults below Terra to warn the Emperor of Horus' rebellion. If I remember correctly then the Emperor sent the Space Wolves to bring Magnus back to Terra to answer for his crimes (and presumably be chained to the Golden Throne for all time to say sorry) but Horus altered the orders so that Russ would attack and destroy the Thousand Sons instead of capturing Magnus.

The Emperor was kind of short sighted in his choice there as Russ and Magnus hated each others guts. So why he thought this wouldn't go pear shaped, we'll never know.

Well, for someone portrayed as a demigod, he sure seems to be clumsy when dealing with the Primarchs (on the maybe 3 instances he is present, anyway).

"The Emperor was a brilliant scientist, a powerful warrior, and great psyker, but he was a terrible father..."
-Roboute Guilliman

 

[Megalodon]

The Emperor was kind of short sighted in his choice there as Russ and Magnus hated each others guts. So why he thought this wouldn't go pear shaped, we'll never know.

This decision was sort of explained in Prospero Burns/A Thousand Sons. At the time the Wolves were the only legion that were perefctly fine with fighting other Astartes. The Wolves admit they are meant to be the Emperor's executioners. Russ was pretty much the only choice, as no other legion could be relised on to put the Thousand Sons down if they resisted, which they did, initially against Magnus's orders.

 

[TimeLord]

The Emperor was kind of short sighted in his choice there as Russ and Magnus hated each others guts. So why he thought this wouldn't go pear shaped, we'll never know.

This decision was sort of explained in Prospero Burns/A Thousand Sons. At the time the Wolves were the only legion that were perefctly fine with fighting other Astartes. The Wolves admit they are meant to be the Emperor's executioners. Russ was pretty much the only choice, as no other legion could be relised on to put the Thousand Sons down if they resisted, which they did, initially against Magnus's orders.

Ah well I've read Prospero Burns but not A Thousand Sons yet. It doesn't make much sense to me. The Emperor could have sent a Primarch friendly to Magnus and asked him to return to Terra. Instead he sent one who hates Magnus and his ways to bring him home. Even before Horus altered the Emperor's orders from capture to destroy, it was going to end badly.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

While we're discussing 40K, I have a question.

Are the Alpha Legion

Spoiler: Horus Heresy: Legion spoilers

still technically good guys, or have they been corrupted and shit?

Spoiler

Define "Good Guys". They're working to destroy the Imperium so that the rest of the galaxy will be saved. So...good-ish in morality but not Imperial aligned.

The Imperium "won" the heresy so presumably the Alpha Legion are still on their original plan of "destroy the Imperium and mankind so the rest of the galaxy is spared"

Also either Alpharius or Omegon or even both of them are considered still living. Robert Guillimon hunted down and killed "the primarch of the Alpha Legion" after they trolled him halfway across the galaxy but given that nobody but the Alphas and the Emperor knew there were actually two primarchs and the Alpha legeion's habit for dressing identically, having surgery so they look like their primarchs and all claim to be Alpharius when asked who they are...it is unclear who Robert killed

*snip, see spoiler

Spoiler

Chaos, from what I hear, is mostly held back by the Emperor severely limiting the access demons have to the physical realm. As far as I know they'd be able to literally swarm the galaxy with infinite numbers if there wasn't anything holding them back.

They could swarm the galaxy buit it'd be counter productive. The chaos gods and demons are formed from the emotions of the matireal world, should they ever overrun the galaxy they'll cease to exist with it.

If I remember right the Necrons are mostly sleeping on their tomb worlds? If all of them awoke at once they'd cause some serious havoc.

There's also the small, tinsy problem for the Imperium that the Void Dragon (the C'Tan/Necron god of all machines) is secretly "sleeping" on mars, the center of where all their machines are made. It's heavily implied that the Void Dragon is part of/is the Machine God the Mechanicum worship. Should he awake he'll take control of all the machines and the Imperium is doomed. Necrons have been trying to wake him up.

Less sure about this one but isn't the Imperium's lore riddled with all kinds of tidbits of hope? Primarchs that were an inch away from death and held in stasis starting to heal again.

-The Lion lies secretly, "sleeping" deep in the Rock (the Dark Angel's fortress), his questionable loyalty notwithstanding
-Robert Guilimon is mortal wounded but held in stasis
-Khan of the White Scars is lost in the webway but might find his way back at some point
-Leman Russ is crusading through the eye of terror and "will be back for the wolftime (end of the world)
-Vulkan is missing, unknown
-Corax took himself off to the eye of terror as punishment

On the flipside the majority of the Chaos Primarchs are still "living" too and have ascended to Demon Prince.

The Legion to Chapter thing isn't because of scarcity/purity of geneside; it's a purposeful change so that there would never be a large force again in case they rebelled again. Smaller groups of heretics are easier to purge

then it turns all Grimdark when Horus goes nuts and starts slaughtering loyal Marines by the thousand. But the first 4/5 books in the series are fantastic stories not constrained by the current status quo.

My favourite part of the intro is book three. "Let the galaxy burn!"

Could be natural selection at work? Psykers in Commoragh get turned into playthings or nommed by Slaanesh; over several generations that would probably result in the 'psychic gene' or whatever it is dying out.

But the Dark Eldar, as far as we know, don't reproduce. All the Eldar race are psychic and DArk Eldar are Eldar who had their souls eaten by Slaanesh during its birth but found a way to stay living and unaging by feeding off the souls oftortured victims

The Emperor was kind of short sighted in his choice there as Russ and Magnus hated each others guts. So why he thought this wouldn't go pear shaped, we'll never know.

I presumed that it was an added punishment. That he would be dragged to Terra in chains by the one brother who he hated. Also the Wolves are loyal dogs, they can be trusted to carry out whatever order they are given without qualm or question unlike another legion who might have rebelled.

Also...uh...there's no way to put this politely but the Wolves have killed astartes on the Emperor's orders before. They were to be sent as a implied "come with us OR ELSE" demand. The Emperor (and Magnus) knew that if Magnus did not obey the Wolves would fall on him and wipe his legion out. That was the Emperor's choice. Horus simply changed the order to the "OR ELSE" bit, this is why the Wolves did not question the order change; they knew the second part of the order was always potentially on the cards.

Magnus was in deep trouble, he wasn't going to Terra for a slapped wrist.