Warhammer 40000 6th Edition: Hope at last

[Ultrajoe]

The people are, dude. Read the Dark Heresy books and any of the other lore entries regarding the common man in the Imperium. Most, if not all, of them are paranoid agoraphobics who'd glady hang their best friend if they thought for a second they were a mutant, let alone an alien.

Xenos tolerance is the province of higher-ranking members of society, who know more truths than the indoctrinated masses. The average guy would sooner die than interact with an alien, and would turn over to the inquisition anybody they knew who had so much looked at a xeno and not repented for a year.

My statement was: "not every citizen of the Imperium is a xenophobic fanatic". It is a true statement. You picked it apart just to criticize one possible interpretation of it, and then to agree with it?

The word 'citizen' I took to imply non-military, uninformed residents, rather than the elite privy to more sensitive information. You didn't mean this, it's not the end of the world. I hardly picked anything apart, relax.

 

[TimeLord]

See the comment by [user]Sigma Castell[/user] that I'd quoted;

Ork emotions and souls go to Gork and Mork
Necrons are machines
Tyranids are a hive mind
Tau are not warp sensitive
Eldar don't contribute to any significant degree anymore after creating the 4th god. There isn't enough of then to matter and most of their souls are contained within Soulstones specifically so they don't get eaten.

Humanity are the only ones who feed the Chaos gods

A) Ork emotions still feed the Chaos Gods, and they can be corrupted by Chaos too.
B) True
C) Also True
D) Just because they aren't warp sensitive doesn't mean they don't feel. The Chaos gods still feed on them.
E) Eldar and Dark Eldar still contribute, just not to the same excessive debauchery they did before the Fall

And that still leaves the Hrud, the Demiurg, Enslavers, Yu'Vath, and countless other races out there.

So no, humanity aren't the only ones that feed the Chaos gods. The Chaos gods existed before humanity, they will still exist after it.

Actually no, the Chaos gods came into being at M2 (500AD, our Middle Ages), Slanessh in M39 during the fall of the Eldar. [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gods_of_Chaos#.T_Koc2t5mSO] So humans gave birth to the 3 Chaos gods of the time and that's why they mainly feed on them.

Lexicanum states that [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gork_and_Mork#.T_KqPWt5mSN] "Gork and Mork are the twin gods of the Orks. Ork traits and emotions have a reflection in the warp the same as the traits and emotions of Humans and Eldar do."

So Orks feed only Gork and Mork as they are basically the warp gods the Orks choose to worship. The same way that choosing to worship a single Chaos god gives it more power over the other gods.

Tau warp exposure; [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Tau_Society_and_Physiology] "it is also worthy to note that not one Tau has ever fallen to Chaos. In fact, as a species, the Tau register as barely more than a blip in the Warp"

However, Dark Eldar psykers are virtually unheard-of. The innate psychic abilities common to the Eldar race have atrophied within the Dark Eldar, partly due to their focus on physical athleticism. As well, to use any psychic powers would draw the attention of Slaanesh, and is one of the few things expressly forbidden within Cammorragh. [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Eldar#Biology]

Yeah there are other minor species in the Galaxy but when you have Trillions of Trillions of Trillions of humans in the Galaxy then that's their main food source.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Regarding Tyranids fighting eachother. Unless they have a method of fighting without spending energy to generate movement and heat, that energy will be lost.
The Biomass of fallen 'Nids can be harvested, but all the moving about that the dead 'Nid did can't be harvested.

Energy isn't the problem for Nids, not while there are still suns for them to photosynthesise or whatever, it's about the mass to store that energy and form into bugs.

 

[Aurgelmir]

GW will never kill off Emps, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot since there's no way for the Imperium to survive as it stands without him, and that's not good for sales.

Well some people think that they should kill the Emprah because he is on his way to becoming a Warp God, which means it could progress the story way forward having their own "Chaos god" on their side.

 

[Suomimaster]

Spoiler: snip

See the comment by [user]Sigma Castell[/user] that I'd quoted;

Ork emotions and souls go to Gork and Mork
Necrons are machines
Tyranids are a hive mind
Tau are not warp sensitive
Eldar don't contribute to any significant degree anymore after creating the 4th god. There isn't enough of then to matter and most of their souls are contained within Soulstones specifically so they don't get eaten.

Humanity are the only ones who feed the Chaos gods

A) Ork emotions still feed the Chaos Gods, and they can be corrupted by Chaos too.
B) True
C) Also True
D) Just because they aren't warp sensitive doesn't mean they don't feel. The Chaos gods still feed on them.
E) Eldar and Dark Eldar still contribute, just not to the same excessive debauchery they did before the Fall

And that still leaves the Hrud, the Demiurg, Enslavers, Yu'Vath, and countless other races out there.

So no, humanity aren't the only ones that feed the Chaos gods. The Chaos gods existed before humanity, they will still exist after it.

Actually no, the Chaos gods came into being at M2 (500AD, our Middle Ages), Slanessh in M39 during the fall of the Eldar. [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gods_of_Chaos#.T_Koc2t5mSO] So humans gave birth to the 3 Chaos gods of the time and that's why they mainly feed on them.

Lexicanum states that [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gork_and_Mork#.T_KqPWt5mSN] "Gork and Mork are the twin gods of the Orks. Ork traits and emotions have a reflection in the warp the same as the traits and emotions of Humans and Eldar do."

So Orks feed only Gork and Mork as they are basically the warp gods the Orks choose to worship. The same way that choosing to worship a single Chaos god gives it more power over the other gods.

Tau warp exposure; [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Tau_Society_and_Physiology] "it is also worthy to note that not one Tau has ever fallen to Chaos. In fact, as a species, the Tau register as barely more than a blip in the Warp"

However, Dark Eldar psykers are virtually unheard-of. The innate psychic abilities common to the Eldar race have atrophied within the Dark Eldar, partly due to their focus on physical athleticism. As well, to use any psychic powers would draw the attention of Slaanesh, and is one of the few things expressly forbidden within Cammorragh. [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Eldar#Biology]

Yeah there are other minor species in the Galaxy but when you have Trillions of Trillions of Trillions of humans in the Galaxy then that's their main food source.

Here comes the third wheel!

I thought that Chaos primarily killed Imperial loyalists like Space Marines and most of the Imperial Guard, so that they could show how "weak" the Imperial forces are and how Chaos is the only way to survive and thrive.

 

[Aurgelmir]

E) Eldar and Dark Eldar still contribute, just not to the same excessive debauchery they did before the Fall

Actually Dark Eldar contribute just as much, they are graduatly having their soul sucked away, but it goes slower in the webway than in real space. This is why Dark Eldar are love to kill kittens and puppies in front of their owners eyes, it refills their soul.

That is more or less how Phil Kelly described it at least

 

[Nouw]

Spoiler: snip

See the comment by [user]Sigma Castell[/user] that I'd quoted;

Ork emotions and souls go to Gork and Mork
Necrons are machines
Tyranids are a hive mind
Tau are not warp sensitive
Eldar don't contribute to any significant degree anymore after creating the 4th god. There isn't enough of then to matter and most of their souls are contained within Soulstones specifically so they don't get eaten.

Humanity are the only ones who feed the Chaos gods

A) Ork emotions still feed the Chaos Gods, and they can be corrupted by Chaos too.
B) True
C) Also True
D) Just because they aren't warp sensitive doesn't mean they don't feel. The Chaos gods still feed on them.
E) Eldar and Dark Eldar still contribute, just not to the same excessive debauchery they did before the Fall

And that still leaves the Hrud, the Demiurg, Enslavers, Yu'Vath, and countless other races out there.

So no, humanity aren't the only ones that feed the Chaos gods. The Chaos gods existed before humanity, they will still exist after it.

Actually no, the Chaos gods came into being at M2 (500AD, our Middle Ages), Slanessh in M39 during the fall of the Eldar. [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gods_of_Chaos#.T_Koc2t5mSO] So humans gave birth to the 3 Chaos gods of the time and that's why they mainly feed on them.

Lexicanum states that [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gork_and_Mork#.T_KqPWt5mSN] "Gork and Mork are the twin gods of the Orks. Ork traits and emotions have a reflection in the warp the same as the traits and emotions of Humans and Eldar do."

So Orks feed only Gork and Mork as they are basically the warp gods the Orks choose to worship. The same way that choosing to worship a single Chaos god gives it more power over the other gods.

Tau warp exposure; [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Tau_Society_and_Physiology] "it is also worthy to note that not one Tau has ever fallen to Chaos. In fact, as a species, the Tau register as barely more than a blip in the Warp"

However, Dark Eldar psykers are virtually unheard-of. The innate psychic abilities common to the Eldar race have atrophied within the Dark Eldar, partly due to their focus on physical athleticism. As well, to use any psychic powers would draw the attention of Slaanesh, and is one of the few things expressly forbidden within Cammorragh. [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Eldar#Biology]

Yeah there are other minor species in the Galaxy but when you have Trillions of Trillions of Trillions of humans in the Galaxy then that's their main food source.

Here comes the third wheel!

I thought that Chaos primarily killed Imperial loyalists like Space Marines and most of the Imperial Guard, so that they could show how "weak" the Imperial forces are and how Chaos is the only way to survive and thrive.

I used to think that too. Turns out, they survive on humanity. I'm sure someone else can go into the details of it but that's the gist.

 

[Bertylicious]

I think they should reboot the universe to the Horus Heresy and release models for the Emperor and the Primarchs. That'd be badass.

Not sure how you'd reconcile the Tau though. Or the 'nids. Also the Mark VII power armour wouldn't exist so all the marines would look wrong, but then they've released new models over the years anyway and nobody got too bent out of shape so I guess that'd be okay.

I'm sure you could get round it all with space magic.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

Allow me to explain the primary Chaos God's motivations. You have to remember that though they are intelligent they are also aspects, their primary function is to spread their associated emotions and attitudes.

Nurgle wants to spread his gifts to humanity, his aspect is slow decay, rust and plague. These things can be spread without wiping humanity out. He keeps his followers alive in a twisted way and can still feed on them despite them being riddled with disease, he's converting them into a more efficient food source.

Khorne wants battle and honour duels and bloodshed. An ideal world for Khorne would be one where elected champions from tribes fought other tribes over and over again. His influence makes his followers mad with bloodlust though so they tend to just kill everything. He can feed off this split blood and carnage but he prefers honourable fights.

Slaanesh is Khorne's opposite. His/her aspect is both pleasure and pain and the heights and lows of each. Enjoying life to the extreme. S/he turns those s/he influences into depraved, desensitised pleasure/pain seekers. Slaanesh's followers take great pleasure in killing or being killed and Slaanesh feeds off it, Slaanesh also feeds of the pleasure the enemy gets from killing Slaanesh's followers. Slaanesh, if allowed to conquer the galaxy, would be similar to Nurgle in that he/she would convert mankind into a more efficient fuel source rather than wiping them out.

Tzeentch is the aspect of ambition, trickery, change, deciet and plotting. Tzeentch likes those with the ambition to conquer and is the opposite to Nurgle who is about accepting one's fate. Tzeentch likes interfering left right and center with the fates of individuals, groups, races and galaxies. Tzeentch is a long term planner and rarely allows a warband aligned to him conquer too much for too long before betraying them, they expect this as it's part of his aspect (betrayal/deciet/change). So long as mankind dreams Tzeentch exists.


Also anyone else find it funny that the birth of a single Chaos God nearly annihilated the eldar and doomed them to a slow death while humanity has helped birth the three older and more powerful Chaos Gods and is still hanging in there.

The only conclusion is that the Eldar's psychic ability allowed a stronger link the Eldar are all sissy-girly men who can't even sustain one Chaos God.

 

[Nouw]

The only conclusion is that the Eldar's psychic ability allowed a stronger link the Eldar are all sissy-girly men who can't even sustain one God.

What about Khaine D:?

 

[Aurgelmir]

While we're discussing 40K, I have a question.

Are the Alpha Legion

Spoiler: Horus Heresy: Legion spoilers

still technically good guys, or have they been corrupted and shit?

Spoiler

The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.

So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.

Spoiler

Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)

Spoiler

Well it wasn't to save humanity, it was to save the galaxy.
Only problem is that what the Cabal predicted is to me what the 40k universe is now, Horus DID loose, the Emperor DID win, Humanity IS in decline.

But does Alpha see it this way? What if Alpha is still fighting the fight because there is still a chance?

So even though they might not be corrupted I think they are a little confused at this point.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

The only conclusion is that the Eldar's psychic ability allowed a stronger link the Eldar are all sissy-girly men who can't even sustain one God.

What about Khaine D:?

Oh I meant Chaos Gods. Khaine is an Eldar God. Not to mention the fact that Khaine has been shattered into hundreds of fragments due to a fight between Slaanesh and Khorne over who's ***** he was going to be.

The Eldar also have two other known living Eldar Gods; The Laughing God and Isha. TLG escaped by tricking Slaanesh and now trolls around the galaxy messing with Slaanesh (he's like an Eldar aligned tzeentch) while Isha is currently married to and living with Nurgle when she is forced to tries all his new plagues brewed in his cauldren. As she is the Eldar goddess of healing the plagues don't kill her and as she is also the Goddess of mercy she occasionally manages to sneak her followers the cure to the plague.

The rest all got "nommed" (to spare blushes) by Slaanesh

 

[Aurgelmir]

But the Dark Eldar, as far as we know, don't reproduce. All the Eldar race are psychic and DArk Eldar are Eldar who had their souls eaten by Slaanesh during its birth but found a way to stay living and unaging by feeding off the souls oftortured victims

Oh they reproduce, they "reproduce" A LOT! In fact being A Trueborn is viewed with quite a hight regard in Commoragh, due to the fact that conceiving a child is not something that happen all that frequent.

It is actually said that the Dark Eldars fondness of bumping uglies is whats keeping them at a sustainable number, together with Tank Breeding and Hemonculi rebuilding the rich.

Man I love the Dark Eldar fluff.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Also anyone else find it funny that the birth of a single Chaos God nearly annihilated the eldar and doomed them to a slow death while humanity has helped birth the three older and more powerful Chaos Gods and is still hanging in there.

The only conclusion is that the Eldar's psychic ability allowed a stronger link the Eldar are all sissy-girly men who can't even sustain one Chaos God.

Hey! Don't insult the eldar!

I like to think of it that the Eldar are so badass that when they go loopy, they create a new god and turn a massive area of space into a warp storm. As far as I can tell humans didn't have all that much direct contact with warp stuff until the age of strife when psykers turned up all over the shop, so the other chaos gods being born didn't really interact with the material world.

 

[Megalodon]

While we're discussing 40K, I have a question.

Are the Alpha Legion

Spoiler: Horus Heresy: Legion spoilers

still technically good guys, or have they been corrupted and shit?

Spoiler

The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.

So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.

Spoiler

Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)

Spoiler

Well it wasn't to save humanity, it was to save the galaxy.
Only problem is that what the Cabal predicted is to me what the 40k universe is now, Horus DID loose, the Emperor DID win, Humanity IS in decline.

But does Alpha see it this way? What if Alpha is still fighting the fight because there is still a chance?

So even though they might not be corrupted I think they are a little confused at this point.

Spoiler

Which is why I reckon that the Cabal were actually on the side of Chaos, trying to improve Horus' chance of victory. Especially as, with warning, the Alpha legion could have prevented the Drop Site Massscre, dramtically shifting the course of the Heresy. The Alpha Legion were lied to, maybe the realisation of this when Horus died drove themover the edge to true Chaos, maybe they're thrying to find a way to fix the mess, or they continue with the Long War because they have nothing else to do. There's no way to know.

 

[Siege_TF]

Chaos would eventually destroy itself if humanity was wiped out because the traitor forces kill one another with enthusiasm with little provocation because they have no regard for life. With no way to replenish their numbers without fresh recruits after a few centuries you'd have maybe eight guys/girls having a good cry as their gods flicker out and die like the astronomicon.

And the lack of Tau coverage is quite disturbing. it's like they released them to get their foot in Japan's door and called it good enough.

 

[Aurgelmir]

While we're discussing 40K, I have a question.

Are the Alpha Legion

Spoiler: Horus Heresy: Legion spoilers

still technically good guys, or have they been corrupted and shit?

Spoiler

The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.

So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.

Spoiler

Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)

Spoiler

Well it wasn't to save humanity, it was to save the galaxy.
Only problem is that what the Cabal predicted is to me what the 40k universe is now, Horus DID loose, the Emperor DID win, Humanity IS in decline.

But does Alpha see it this way? What if Alpha is still fighting the fight because there is still a chance?

So even though they might not be corrupted I think they are a little confused at this point.

Spoiler

Which is why I reckon that the Cabal were actually on the side of Chaos, trying to improve Horus' chance of victory. Especially as, with warning, the Alpha legion could have prevented the Drop Site Massscre, dramtically shifting the course of the Heresy. The Alpha Legion were lied to, maybe the realisation of this when Horus died drove themover the edge to true Chaos, maybe they're thrying to find a way to fix the mess, or they continue with the Long War because they have nothing else to do. There's no way to know.

Spoiler

Naw I believe the Cabal. Problem was Alpha was too far away from anyone when they were approached, because things happened faster than the Cabal thought.
Also if Horus won, he would regret what he did and more or less completely wipe out humanity to stop Chaos hold on humanity.

 

[Megalodon]

While we're discussing 40K, I have a question.

Are the Alpha Legion

Spoiler: Horus Heresy: Legion spoilers

still technically good guys, or have they been corrupted and shit?

Spoiler

The Alpha Legion are still technically loyal. They don't use daemons or any of that worshiping a single Chaos god for example. But they fight the Imperium to undermine the Chaos Gods. The Cabal showed Alpharius and Omegon that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos.

So they are fighting humanity to save the Galaxy. Nobody except them knows this though.

Spoiler

Wait, what? I'm still confused. How does wiping out humanity within two generations preserve humanity? Or is it they actually see things beyond humanity and believe that humanity needs to be sacrificed to save all the other races in the galaxy?(going back to your explanation that Chaos would implode if it was ever successful in destroying humanity)

Spoiler

Well it wasn't to save humanity, it was to save the galaxy.
Only problem is that what the Cabal predicted is to me what the 40k universe is now, Horus DID loose, the Emperor DID win, Humanity IS in decline.

But does Alpha see it this way? What if Alpha is still fighting the fight because there is still a chance?

So even though they might not be corrupted I think they are a little confused at this point.

Spoiler

Which is why I reckon that the Cabal were actually on the side of Chaos, trying to improve Horus' chance of victory. Especially as, with warning, the Alpha legion could have prevented the Drop Site Massscre, dramtically shifting the course of the Heresy. The Alpha Legion were lied to, maybe the realisation of this when Horus died drove themover the edge to true Chaos, maybe they're thrying to find a way to fix the mess, or they continue with the Long War because they have nothing else to do. There's no way to know.

Spoiler

Naw I believe the Cabal. Problem was Alpha was too far away from anyone when they were approached, because things happened faster than the Cabal thought.
Also if Horus won, he would regret what he did and more or less completely wipe out humanity to stop Chaos hold on humanity.

Spoiler

Spoiler

I maintain that the Alpha could have stopped Istvaan V, or at the very least turned it into a phyrric victory for Horus, leaving the Traitor Legions shattered and easy prey for the remaining loyalists. When the Night Lords, Word Bearers and Iron Warriors attemptto turn traitor, they find their heavy gear sabotaged and Alpha Legionaries already shooting them in the back.

 

[Suomimaster]

Hey! Don't insult the eldar!

I like to think of it that the Eldar are so badass that when they go loopy, they create a new god and turn a massive area of space into a warp storm. As far as I can tell humans didn't have all that much direct contact with warp stuff until the age of strife when psykers turned up all over the shop, so the other chaos gods being born didn't really interact with the material world.

So, an apologist for the poncy Space Elves, then? Those pretty-boy Eldar couldn't be badass if they were the only species in the galaxy. The Imperial Guard are proper badasses, facing the worst horrors of the universe with flashlights, T-shirts and balls the size of moons.

As long as there are scary Commissars behind them, they pretty much do anything.