"We surrender" Said the French

[axia777]

We already paid that debt off, we gave the cash back in the 1800's and then the "saved their asses" part in WW1. We don't owe shit as a nation to anyone. Well maybe an apology to a few individuals, but not to entire nations.

That is all besides the point. I also never said we owed them anything. I just think that if it were not for them we would not be America, period. The British would have overwhelmed us tith their economic superiority.

I also would like to know why do you hate France so damn much? They are relatively decent country that does less harm to the world than America. What is the problem?

I dislike the French because I've never met one that wasn't a prick (and I've met enough to have met a fairly broad spectrum of them.) They were all nice and friendly until they heard I was an American though.

That sucks that all French people you have met were dicks. Have you been to France? I would also like to point out that blanket judging an entire people because of a few assholes is rather ignorant and uninformed. But that is just my opinion.

It is sort of like Europeans thinking all Americans are all cheap beer swilling, overly huge truck driving, burger eating fat assed slobs just because some actually are.

 

[Uskis]

Did you forget about the bombing in Britain? Beside, the Frenchies didn't even put up a fight when the Nazis rolled into town.

As far as I know, they didn't have much of a chance to organize effective defenses, since they were still stuck in old warfare mentality with heavy focus on static defense, which the blitzkrieg effectively countered. America had about 4 years to build up and adapt to modern warfare.

 

[Stalk3rchief]

Honestly, although I hate the modern french, they weren't always bad.
Up until recently they were great people.
They helped us win our freedom, gave us the Statue of Liberty, and their underground soldiers helped us out in WWII by doing hit and runs and scouting out Nazi positions.
Idk what happened in the past decade to piss them off, but the damage has been done.
French bastards.
Like we need their damn cheese and wine anyways...
jerks.

 

[Stalk3rchief]

But guess who still won the 100 year war? Thats right the British

What did they do in the 100 Year's War?
(Narrowly beat out the British... then surrender)

Are we forgetting that they came back and forced the British out of France. Ending The Hundred Years' War. I'm pretty sure that would make them the winners.

that seems very selective to me. why not say the hundred years war ended after the british won. then the french forcing them out could be a seperate war.
just saying

HEY!
THAT'S ENOUGH OF YOUR LOGIC!
lol
jkjk
But it's a pretty vague time in history.
100 years is a long time, and probably sounds cooler than the 98,97,102,106,etc war.

 

[Corpse XxX]

You know France aint never gonna win anything except maybe Fashion Wars them buncha girly men.. haha

\bad joke

 

[gentleben]

My personal feeling on the French are:
Invaded and nearly taken completely over until America and other allies bailed them out in WWI.
Surrendered in WWII until America and other allies bailed them out.
Had a failtacular in Vietnam, even with America trying to bail them out, not that America did any better.
So recent history has not been good for the French. Not so much for the American either, but at least we kicked ass and saved France in WWI and II.

Without the French the United States would have never become independent from Britain.
The US's input into WWI is largely exaggerated.
The US didn't enter WWII until it was attacked itself, and I take objection to the use of the phrase "The US and other allies", as the US was essentially fighting its own separate war over trade embargoes against Japan for the majority of the War. And since losing the battles of Britain and Stalingrad the 3rd Reich was, to all intents and purposes, routed. Momentum had swung in the favour of the allies. The US entered the European theatre late, and when their necessity was questionable, as has been their policy for years.

 

[Zac_Dai]

I'm not particularly fond of the French but even I know my history well enough to know that the "LOL Surrender Monkeys" line is utter crap.

 

[Spitfire175]

But guess who still won the 100 year war? Thats right the British

I'm not sure why I think it's to do with WW1/WW2.

About the 100 years war. You british(english) didn't win. Neither did the frenchies- the third party of the war, the Dukedom of Burgundy is considered to be the real winner. You brits ran out of money and left the french to cut each others throats. Burgundy snatched huge areas from both France and England. Also, it was the only one of the three that wasn't bankrupt in the 1450s.

In WW1, the french took a beating, but didn't surrender. At Verdun, they withstood the most intense german artillery even seen- 120 shells a minute/ha for a week. In WW2 they did fail, no question about that. But let's not forget that the BEF got its butt kicked in 1940 too.

French military history isn't really as comical as presented in the internet today. Although, it is true that they are not the most succesful war going nation. In fact they have been rubbish from time to time. On the other hand, in strange bursts of nationalism they can go ahead and conquer Moscow.(only when led by a corsican) In modern wars the french "le poilu" has been let down by overconservative commanders and leaders: their equippment and tactics have always been outdated.

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion."

Also, it's the France's position that has affected its military reputation. Where is France? Next to Germany. Across the chneel is Britain. German populated areas(Prussia in particular) were known far and wide for their military prowess and superb technology in weapons. Every time the germans have desided to have a holiday in France, they've palyed football with french heads. Britain has been a warrior nation, and in fact, the most succesful war making country: they've fought the most wars and won the most wars(%).

Compared to her neighbours, France is a bit of a laugh. Globally, France isn't a star in this either, but it's not the worst either. It's the frencies' cunning southeast neighbour that deserves all the mocking the "cheese eating surrender monkeys" now get. The italians haven't really been magnificent in the fields of battle either. In fact they've gotten their backsides whacked quite a few times. In order to get something done, they needed german help.
Why aren't they laughed at? Because the sneaky bastards change sides half way through and decleare themselves victorious.

On the subject: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

 

[axia777]

snip

Wow, thanks for the informative history lesson Spitfire.

 

[Spitfire175]

Who said anything about a single generation? The first generation born in the U.S. are most likely to consider themselves Americans (and beyond that it's essentially a given). Culture (ethnicity, especially) and nationality are separate concepts. Oh, and anthropologist pet peeve: there is no such thing as a "sub-culture." Chicano culture is just that, no "sub" needed.

My point in connecting them to the Normans was that the Normans had already established themselves as French for at least several generations by the time William the Conqueror crossed the strait to kick Saxon ass (someone trying to disclaim French credit for the Battle of Hastings).

In fact it' not like that. The "french king" was a norman. The Normans hadn't given up their culture or blended in. The majority of these normans still spoke Norwegian and thay had their own culture: the nation of France and its culture as we know it didn't exist yet. They still fought like their vking ancestors: housecarls and spearmen form the line of battle. They had adapted new ideas like the "norman knights", which were of ROMAN origin: knights and their fighting style is a roman developement, not french. It was indeed Charles the great(of a german bloodline) who established the the idea of knighthood to europe, but only the economical and social aspects of it: armoured horsemen wielding lances and cahrging like we think knights charge had been around since the 4th century.

In the battle of hastings two very similar armies, comprising housecarls and frydmen, along with some supporting forces, fought waht was actually quite an even battle. The heavy cavalry was the key to victory. And that wasn't a french invention.

 

[Spitfire175]

Wow, thanks for the informative history lesson Spitfire.

No problem. History is my profession and I like writing.

 

[axia777]

Wow, thanks for the informative history lesson Spitfire.

No problem. History is my profession and I like writing.

Well, it just good to see a level headed person who knows history to bring this discussion around to the logical side of things.

 

[Skeleon]

Technically Liberated Europe, he was all for Democracy.

Sort of. I mean, he was a dictator, but the Code Civil can be attributed to him (which is still an important basis for democratic laws and rights today). I guess what I'm saying is that we benefited from him, but he wasn't really a good person or an actual democrat because of that. In fact, he crowned himself Emperor, so...

 

[Zeramo]

I think it was because they surrendered to the Nazis in WW2.
Though people seem to forget about La Resistance and whatnot.

Funnily enough, a nation that once conquered most of Europe itself (under Napoleon) is now stereotyped as a nation of cowards.
Weird, but what can you do... *shrugs*

Even weirder that the Italians are considered more cowardly at least by the english.

Incidentally I heard a joke concerning this topic.

What are the 2 shortest books in history?
Answer: the german book of humour and the Italian book of warheroes.

I don't know where the joke's from but maybe it is from france

 

[Smudge91]

Funnily enough France has quite an impressive military history during its golden age the stereotype is only really 100 years old. Oh and the normans did invade england so maybe not that cowardly and the french are just cool.

 

[Nickolai77]

The italians haven't really been magnificent in the fields of battle either. In fact they've gotten their backsides whacked quite a few times. In order to get something done, they needed german help.
Why aren't they laughed at? Because the sneaky bastards change sides half way through and decleare themselves victorious.

On the subject: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

Thank you for pointing out the Italians, supposedly the only nation in the world with the foresight to equip their tanks with reverse lights, and hell they needed them when they got their asses handed back to them by Montgomery, and the Germans had to bail them out. (several times throughout the war) They also lost against a war against Ethiopia in 1895, causing a huge embarrassment, and then again in 1935 they tried again they could only take 2/3rds of the country.

Once upon a time Italians (or Romans) conquered Europe, and holded onto it for a good 300 years. Leaving behind their language (the typo i am using now is of course Latin) and their numbers still survive today, kept alive by the Final Fantasy series, strangely enough. At one point the French where quite powerful, they did have a respectable Empire at one point, owning most of North Africa and parts of South East Asia, and yes in the Napoleonic Wars they did quite well. But nowadays? Nope, their not much good at all.

I think it is a cultural thing, nations like Britain, Germany and Finland have proved themselves to be damn good at fighting wars in the last century or so- nowadays it only sees Northern European nations can fight wars now, it is just as well then, that America was the spawn of the British Empire. If it was off the French Empire, i don't think their military would be much to worry about.

That's not to say the French and Italy can reverse this trend, perhaps by actually do some fighting in Afghanistan, instead of sitting on the sidelines would be a start.

 

[Dramatic Flare]

Why does no one ever remember the 30 Years War? I mean, we've already established among the people who don't have their heads up their asses that the French won the 100 Years War, conquered most of Europe in the 19th century, fought Germany to a standstill in WW1, and fell under the blitzkrieg in WWII only to form a sizable and unbelievably badass resistance movement in WWII. France's intervention was what ultimately swung the war against the Holy Roman Empire and the Hapsburgs.

Battle of Hastings, 1066, only war I can think where they but us British, and that was Normandy not the whole of France.

Normans weren't French, they were Viking settlers and Frankish (German) natives.

The name "Normans" derives from "Northmen" or "Norsemen", after the Vikings from Scandinavia who founded Normandy (Northmannia in its original Latin).

That's like saying my neighbors across the street aren't Americans, because they came here from Mexico. The Normans came from Scandinavia, adopted and adapted French culture, and swore vassalage to the French king. They weren't Vikings at that point.

But they almost certainly aren't Americans from a quite literal sense. If a person emigrates into the Unites States, they then have to live in the country for literally 14 years just to be considered for citizenship. They aren't automatically Americans if they move here.
Now, if their kids were born here, then they are considered Americans by law.