Everytime my fellow countrymen crack jokes like this about the French, I remind them that America owes its very existence as a nation to them.
"We surrender" Said the French
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commonly the french are seen as 'cowards' because of what happened in world war 2.
with surprising speed, the germans overwhelmed and crushed the french army in a matter of 5 weeks, which at the time was considered one of the predominent powers in europe. this defeat shamed the french and since then they have never been held with in the same regards as they once where.
in modern times the french are commonly seen as cowards because of their indesicive nature, not willing to risk lives to combat a threat which most nations hold in higher reguards (war on terror). in international convetions they are often the first to complain and the first to oppose, setting up stern opposition to both the american campaigns in the Iraqi wars as well as russian involvement in the georgia conflict.
like the snooty uptight teachers pet, they are almost always the first to say 'You shouldn't be doing that!' on the world stage which earns the jeering from the rest of the major players.
with surprising speed, the germans overwhelmed and crushed the french army in a matter of 5 weeks, which at the time was considered one of the predominent powers in europe. this defeat shamed the french and since then they have never been held with in the same regards as they once where.
in modern times the french are commonly seen as cowards because of their indesicive nature, not willing to risk lives to combat a threat which most nations hold in higher reguards (war on terror). in international convetions they are often the first to complain and the first to oppose, setting up stern opposition to both the american campaigns in the Iraqi wars as well as russian involvement in the georgia conflict.
like the snooty uptight teachers pet, they are almost always the first to say 'You shouldn't be doing that!' on the world stage which earns the jeering from the rest of the major players.
Do you mean in Afghanistan? Canada isn't pulling out because of a lack of manpower. The general said that after Canada pulls out, a year will be needed to repair the tanks which were in Afghanistan. That Red Eye show needed to make fun of something so they thought they would twist that to humourous effect. I didn't find it very funny at all, but that isn't the point. I think the biggest thing is to not get your news from comedy shows.Griever18 said:
Nicely laid out post, but you missed my point - I know all of that. What I'm saying is that the list of french 'surrenders' linked by a poster a couple of posts above mine is flawed because it uses these odd logics. I'm stating this by showing that it's easy to administer weird logics to basically any country to make a list that looks as if they've lost every single military encounter they went into.SilentHunter7 said:
not really.MoganFreeman said:
french involvement in the american revolution is rather limited at best, and in all honosty, even if the americans and french didn't team up, france would of declared war on britin any ways as it was the tactically wise decision to make.
it is easily arguable that the british/french engagement was a war happening congruently to that of the american revolution rather than one in the same.
Sure the French did not fight really at all in the war (except for a few choice naval battles) but they did provide America with money, ships, guns, and supplies during the war when America really needed those things to keep fighting. America paid is all back so we would be be in their debt, but the French still did help. All thanks to Benjamin Franklin I do believe. He was the one who convinced the French to come to our aid.Pyro Paul said:
thats mostly just the US, i don't know of too many other nations that agree with our "method" of War on terrorism, most like the the idea of dealing with Terrorists, but the means of "dealing" with them tends to defer from nation to nation.Pyro Paul said:
I personally don't like much of the world, i wouldn't mind sitting in a fallout shelter watching the world explode. Mankind sucks, the universe would not mourn the loss.
now to get back on topic.
As an American and a German citizen, i as well, do not like the french. Upon learning my nationality, the frenchies that i've met have immediately expressed their hatred towards my two beautiful nations, which inclined me to despise them.
But in the event that further conflict would result in the annihilation of your homeland by a force that has already taken your capitol, wouldn't you settle for survival? The french were humanely right to surrender, they serve as better underground resistance fighters anyway. The Napoleonic France is long gone as far as i can tell, but dont forget, it was frenchies that fought for Napoleon, that little turd couldn't have done it without them.
look up the XYZ affair, thats one reason for America's deep seated resentmentPyro Paul said:
I have been to France. I was there in 1994. I spent just over three weeks traveling from Calais, to Tour, down through the western French country side, through Paris and then down to the French Riviera to Nice (BOOBIES! 
). Never once in my whole time there did I ever have a French person treat me badly for being American. That may be because it was long before this whole "War on Terror" bullshit, but the fact remains the same. They treated me with respect and friendliness.
). Never once in my whole time there did I ever have a French person treat me badly for being American. That may be because it was long before this whole "War on Terror" bullshit, but the fact remains the same. They treated me with respect and friendliness.Wow, that is funny. The French really did hate the British. SO much that they retaliated against America for making deals with them. That was a huge dick move on the part of the French. Not that Britain and America have not pulled their own similar moves in the past as well though.Agent Nipples said:
i too have been to france (if only a little past the german borderline), i found that the people from the country were a bit more hospitable than Parisians (from what i hear)
im pretty sure that over 10 percent of their active male population was killed in ww1, i would call that a sound thrashing. they didnt surrender persay, but didnt put up enough of a fight to stop german forces from invading and holding good defensive positions for quite some time. i would say it is pretty deserved.The_AC said:
two invasions in two wars, not very good stats.
Because killing Jews just isn't funny, and because 99% (trufacts, I looked it up) of Czechoslovakia plays ice hockey. Ice Hockey = WAY scarier than... ya know, French sports. Would you make fun of a hockey player? I didn't think so!Uskis said:
OT: Joke's existed since WWII (So blaming it on Bush is silly.)
Actually, Bush! He's exactly like the French. As far as jokes go anyway. He's a scapegoat, and an easy, easy target.
"French are cheese eating surrender monkeys"
"Bush is a war-mongering monkey-thing!"
Same thing, same joke. Bush is just newer. And looks more monkey like.
w00t! Ice hockey! =D
[EDIT] God damn have I ever gotta start sleeping more before posting...
It's just an untrue generalization. I say this and i'm British!
Besides, the majority of people who comment that the French are cowards are American, and then they complain when the world see's them as spoilt, fat, loud, conservative, selfish religous nuts.
Besides, the majority of people who comment that the French are cowards are American, and then they complain when the world see's them as spoilt, fat, loud, conservative, selfish religous nuts.
After six pages, I'm sure somebody's brought this one up, but the complete military history of France should shed some light on this:
Edit: Yay, got the spoiler to work
- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]
- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.
- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots
- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
- The Dutch War
- Tied
- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu
- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."
Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."
With only an hour and a half of research, Jonathan Duczkowski provided the following losses:
Norse invasions, 841-911.
After having their way with the French for 70 years, the Norse are bribed by a French King named Charles the Simple (really!) who gave them Normandy in return for peace. Normans proceed to become just about the only positive military bonus in France's [favour] for next 500 years.
Andrew Ouellette posts this in response:
1066 A.D. William The Conquerer Duke and Ruler of France Launches the Largest Invasion in the history of the world no other was as large until the same trip was taken in reverse on June 6th 1944 William Fights Harold for the Throne of England Which old king Edward rightfully left to William but Harold Usurped the throne Will fights the Saxons (English)wins and the French Rule England for the Next 80 Years. then the French start the largest building and economic infrastructure since the fall of the Roman Empire the Norman Economy skyrockets and the Normans inadvertantly start England to become a major world Power Vive La France-
Matt Davis posts this in response to Andrew Ouellette above:
Oh dear. We seem to have overlooked some basic facts. Firstly, Philip the First (1060 - 1108) was King of France at the time of the Norman invasion of 1066 - William was Duke of Normandy and, incidentally, directly descended from the Vikings. William was, therefore, as alien to France as the experience of victory. Since Philip did not invade England, the victory at Hastings was Norman - not French. Normandy may be a part of France now but it most certainly wasn't in 1066. Therefore, William's coronation as King of England had nothing whatsoever to do with the French. As usual, they were nowhere near the place when the fighting was going on. The mistaken belief that 1066 was a French victory leads to the Third Rule of French Warfare; "When incapable of any victory whatsoever - claim someone else's".
Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.
Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.
Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.
Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.
India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming than French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.
Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.
1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.
Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.
French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):
1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.
St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.
Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.
Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.
[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.
Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.
Thomas Whiteley has submitted this addition to me:
Seven year War 1756-1763
Lost: after getting hammered by Frederick the Great of Prussia (yep, the Germans again) at Rossbach, the French were held off for the remainder of the War by Frederick of Brunswick and a hodge-podge army including some Brits. War also saw France kicked out of Canada (Wolfe at Quebec) and India (Clive at Plassey).
Richard Mann, an American in France wants to add the following:
The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair.
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]
- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.
- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots
- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
- The Dutch War
- Tied
- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu
- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."
Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."
With only an hour and a half of research, Jonathan Duczkowski provided the following losses:
Norse invasions, 841-911.
After having their way with the French for 70 years, the Norse are bribed by a French King named Charles the Simple (really!) who gave them Normandy in return for peace. Normans proceed to become just about the only positive military bonus in France's [favour] for next 500 years.
Andrew Ouellette posts this in response:
1066 A.D. William The Conquerer Duke and Ruler of France Launches the Largest Invasion in the history of the world no other was as large until the same trip was taken in reverse on June 6th 1944 William Fights Harold for the Throne of England Which old king Edward rightfully left to William but Harold Usurped the throne Will fights the Saxons (English)wins and the French Rule England for the Next 80 Years. then the French start the largest building and economic infrastructure since the fall of the Roman Empire the Norman Economy skyrockets and the Normans inadvertantly start England to become a major world Power Vive La France-
Matt Davis posts this in response to Andrew Ouellette above:
Oh dear. We seem to have overlooked some basic facts. Firstly, Philip the First (1060 - 1108) was King of France at the time of the Norman invasion of 1066 - William was Duke of Normandy and, incidentally, directly descended from the Vikings. William was, therefore, as alien to France as the experience of victory. Since Philip did not invade England, the victory at Hastings was Norman - not French. Normandy may be a part of France now but it most certainly wasn't in 1066. Therefore, William's coronation as King of England had nothing whatsoever to do with the French. As usual, they were nowhere near the place when the fighting was going on. The mistaken belief that 1066 was a French victory leads to the Third Rule of French Warfare; "When incapable of any victory whatsoever - claim someone else's".
Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.
Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.
Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.
Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.
India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming than French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.
Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.
1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.
Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.
French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):
1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.
St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.
Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.
Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.
[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.
Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.
Thomas Whiteley has submitted this addition to me:
Seven year War 1756-1763
Lost: after getting hammered by Frederick the Great of Prussia (yep, the Germans again) at Rossbach, the French were held off for the remainder of the War by Frederick of Brunswick and a hodge-podge army including some Brits. War also saw France kicked out of Canada (Wolfe at Quebec) and India (Clive at Plassey).
Richard Mann, an American in France wants to add the following:
The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair.
Edit: Yay, got the spoiler to work
not really, i would agree in general that any victory can usually be attributed to the strategists (officers) as opposed to the grunts who dont have very much wiggle room to alter their orders. not selling short their achievements just saying that the strategists deserve the credit usually.The Infamous Scamola said:
hell what am i saying, i am selling their achievements short. still respectful of their sacrifices but imo dont deserve credit for the concept, just the implementation.
that is just one example.Agent Nipples said:
other examples range from the wars in the middle east, resolutions against agressive nations, and policies against international criminal acts.
they are always the first to get up and call foul, but rarely do they ever act upon their threats, resolutions, or stern words. Russia with Georgia, Iran with its election, US with its war on terror. they will vocally oppose these things on the international stage, condoning such use of force. but when it comes down to it, that is all they do. vocally oppose it.