"We surrender" Said the French

[Laxman9292]

But guess who still won the 100 year war? Thats right the British

No they didn't. The Hundred Years' War resulted in a complete expulsion of the British from France.

What did they do in World War 1?
(Surrender)

No they didn't. France was the single largest contributor to the winning Allies in the Frist World War.

The idea that the France always loses is just utter rubbish, constantly spewed in the anglophone world where the French generally aren't well liked. France was for most of its history the most powerful country in Europe. And the statistics are pretty good too, they've fought in more European wars than any other country and they've won more than twice as many major battles as they've lost.

See your problem here is you are using facts, rather than just mindlessly bashing a country for no good reason. The hate for the French has always puzzled me too, they have a fairly good war record really and where far from the only country to be defeated by Germany in WW2, though the free French did keep on fighting even taking one of the beaches on D-Day. It is just a meme that has got out of hand I guess.

Though being unable to tell WW1 from WW2 is rather funny in a sad way when you think about it.

not really, it is still his opinion until he shows a credible source where others can find conclusive data to support his statements.
the only difference was he stated his opinions like they are facts. A clever ruse my good sir =)

 

[Agent Nipples]

It's just an untrue generalization. I say this and i'm British!

Besides, the majority of people who comment that the French are cowards are American, and then they complain when the world see's them as spoilt, fat, loud, conservative, selfish religous nuts.

ahhh i am glad to see that american stereotypes dont work on me. I am none of the above, i'll pat myself on the back. But whats wrong with being conservative? Too held up on the past?

 

[sizzle949]

The only real reason France fell so fast in WW2 is because they were one of the first countries hit with blitzkrieg. This was before the Allies had a chance to observe the tactic and find countermeasures to it. Had France had been able to witness Blitzkrieg as the Britains were able to (as they turned tail and rain away back to the UK when the French needed them the most) I'm sure things would have turned out differently as France actually did have the most powerful land army at the time (little known fact). It wasn't a matter of throwing down their guns and yelling "WE SURRENDER!". It was "instead of watching as millions of civilians and soldiers die needlessly, let's surrender to unsure their safety and hope that the Britains can learn from our defeat."

 

[Agent Nipples]

It was "instead of watching as millions of civilians and soldiers die needlessly, let's surrender to unsure their safety and hope that the Britains can learn from our defeat."

Kind of what i said in an early post, but my views were mixed with the general hatred of mankind

 

[kotorfan04]

And France didn't surrender during WWI, but they still lost.

How is that cowardly?
Nobody calls the 300 Spartans cowards, they lost, too.

The 300 Spartans weren't French. That is the deciding factor in this, the French suck. Their attidtude sucks, their military sucks. Why does their military suck, because its comprised of FRENCH PEOPLE. They've lost nearly every war they've been in. They didn't suck when a fat, annoying, one armed bandit with a God complex led them though. They do have Napoleon, but he won all the fights- except the one that mattered.

Alright, I must say is a lovely bit of circular reasoning, they are french therefore they suck because they are french. Also in WW1 they French fought hard but kind of got slapped around a bit, and then in WW2 they learned from their mistakes and build a line of fortifications on the border of France and Germany. Sadly this border didn't extend to the French Belgium border and Germany conquered Belgium and steamrolled into France through the lightly guarded backdoor. Oh and for all us Yanks ragging on France remember two things:
A.) They had Napoleon, who almost conquered all of Europe, however he was brutally defeated because he lost one battle and before that he lost momentum in a failed invasion of Russia.
B.) They helped us in the Revolutionary War, remember with General Lafayette and the naval support. Fun times, in fact a good argument could be made saying that America wouldn't exist without the French aid. (Although I will admit that their motives were probably less about aiding freedom and more harassing the Brits.)
Now finally I will admit that the French have been rather snooty towards America and the rest of Europe, so yes their ego needs a bit of deflating, however ragging on them for surrendering one time seems a bit unfair, it would be like calling the U.S. a bunch of imperialist warmongers because we kind of sort of overthrew some governments for oil and claimed it was to stop communism. (I speak of course of the 1950s revolution in Iran manufactured by the head of the State Department John Foster Dulles, and the results of the revolution led almost directly to the current political climate in Iran today, but that is tangenital to my point which is...) Every country has made a few mistakes but turning those mistakes into stereotypes and using those stereotypes to insult a people is uncalled for. Of course if you are just using a stereotype for a laugh then carry on.

 

[KaiRai]

What did they do in the 100 Year's War?
(Narrowly beat out the British... then surrender)

What did they do in World War 1?
(Surrender)

What did they do in World War 2?
(Surrender)

<url=http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html>See here, for a comprehensive list.

There is also the story that 1,000 British fusiliers from the Army marched and met 10,000 soldiers from the French army, and after a crap load of French died, the rest ran off, leaving the Fusiliers victorious.

 

[Laxman9292]

But guess who still won the 100 year war? Thats right the British

What did they do in the 100 Year's War?
(Narrowly beat out the British... then surrender)

Are we forgetting that they came back and forced the British out of France. Ending The Hundred Years' War. I'm pretty sure that would make them the winners.

that seems very selective to me. why not say the hundred years war ended after the british won. then the french forcing them out could be a seperate war.
just saying

 

[Laxman9292]

Doesn't make sense really. Guess if you surrender once you never live it down. What about Poland? Haven't they been conquered several times?

yes but you dont see many Polish people disputing that, i feel that its widely accepted by now that its just not funny.

 

[Frank_Sinatra_]

I do like that one joke about them...

I found an old French rifle on eBay. Never been fired, only dropped once.

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...
That joke made my day.

 

[Laxman9292]

Why does no one ever remember the 30 Years War? I mean, we've already established among the people who don't have their heads up their asses that the French won the 100 Years War, conquered most of Europe in the 19th century, fought Germany to a standstill in WW1, and fell under the blitzkrieg in WWII only to form a sizable and unbelievably badass resistance movement in WWII. France's intervention was what ultimately swung the war against the Holy Roman Empire and the Hapsburgs.

Battle of Hastings, 1066, only war I can think where they but us British, and that was Normandy not the whole of France.

Normans weren't French, they were Viking settlers and Frankish (German) natives.

The name "Normans" derives from "Northmen" or "Norsemen", after the Vikings from Scandinavia who founded Normandy (Northmannia in its original Latin).

That's like saying my neighbors across the street aren't Americans, because they came here from Mexico. The Normans came from Scandinavia, adopted and adapted French culture, and swore vassalage to the French king. They weren't Vikings at that point.

the claim that they arent vikings is valid but your neighbors most assuredly are not american. they are indeed mexican. there is definately a latino sub-culture in america, throwing out the idea of adapting. they can be american citizens but they cant change their heritage withing the span of a single generation

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I reckon it's only there because the yanks had to liberate their arses in WW2, then were repaid in snootiness.

I hear the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkey" was first coined by Willy in the Simpsons.

It was indeed.

I think the reason it started was with the World Wars, not to mention the habit we Americans had of taking up some abandoned french task and carrying it through to completion (most famously of course the Panama Canal. Most infamously - Vietnam (and we did about as well as the french)). If one wanted to look further, they find that France has an incredibly proud martial tradition yet somehow they often to end up on the wrong side of an alliance or what have you. There really isn't much to justify the sterotype, considering they've only surrendered on a handful of occasions (three that I'm aware of - two under Napoleon and of course WWII).

 

[noodlestreet]

Read a book about the Battle of Verdun (WWI) and you will not honestly be able to call the French population cowardly ever again.

 

[Dancingman]

Hee hee, I love playfully teasing the French even though I know they've had some remarkable victories in their long military history. That said I dispense with the pleasantries for an amusing story from my past.

I once went to a Renaissance Fair where you could join in on one of the performances, you didn't have to work there or anything. You got a long wooden staff and were taught several formations along with your group, we had English style and stuff like that, we also had French style, which was for every single group member to drop his/her staff and run away.

 

[Osloq]

"Come to France, where we shall mock the country that saved us from the Germans twice!"

You better be talking about the British because the Americans did jack shit in WWI compared to the rest of the Triple Entente.

They didn't declare war on the Ottoman Empire and were never classed as a formal ally just an associated power which translates to "we aren't going to help until the whole of Europe is taken over and they bomb something we own.". I like the U.S. and a lot of North American people but the foreign policy has been and still is one of the most selfish in the world.

Also Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican so not sure if they can claim those as true French victories.

 

[Ridonculous_Ninja]

Why does no one ever remember the 30 Years War? I mean, we've already established among the people who don't have their heads up their asses that the French won the 100 Years War, conquered most of Europe in the 19th century, fought Germany to a standstill in WW1, and fell under the blitzkrieg in WWII only to form a sizable and unbelievably badass resistance movement in WWII. France's intervention was what ultimately swung the war against the Holy Roman Empire and the Hapsburgs.

Battle of Hastings, 1066, only war I can think where they but us British, and that was Normandy not the whole of France.

Normans weren't French, they were Viking settlers and Frankish (German) natives.

The name "Normans" derives from "Northmen" or "Norsemen", after the Vikings from Scandinavia who founded Normandy (Northmannia in its original Latin).

That's like saying my neighbors across the street aren't Americans, because they came here from Mexico. The Normans came from Scandinavia, adopted and adapted French culture, and swore vassalage to the French king. They weren't Vikings at that point.

the claim that they arent vikings is valid but your neighbors most assuredly are not american. they are indeed mexican. there is definately a latino sub-culture in america, throwing out the idea of adapting. they can be american citizens but they cant change their heritage withing the span of a single generation

Or they can and did and you're just not thinking they could or would.

Not every Mexican is going to keep a completely pure Mexican culture (although I can believe a majority would for a generation or two like you said) when they come to a country like America.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Why does no one ever remember the 30 Years War? I mean, we've already established among the people who don't have their heads up their asses that the French won the 100 Years War, conquered most of Europe in the 19th century, fought Germany to a standstill in WW1, and fell under the blitzkrieg in WWII only to form a sizable and unbelievably badass resistance movement in WWII. France's intervention was what ultimately swung the war against the Holy Roman Empire and the Hapsburgs.

Battle of Hastings, 1066, only war I can think where they but us British, and that was Normandy not the whole of France.

Normans weren't French, they were Viking settlers and Frankish (German) natives.

The name "Normans" derives from "Northmen" or "Norsemen", after the Vikings from Scandinavia who founded Normandy (Northmannia in its original Latin).

That's like saying my neighbors across the street aren't Americans, because they came here from Mexico. The Normans came from Scandinavia, adopted and adapted French culture, and swore vassalage to the French king. They weren't Vikings at that point.

the claim that they arent vikings is valid but your neighbors most assuredly are not american. they are indeed mexican. there is definately a latino sub-culture in america, throwing out the idea of adapting. they can be american citizens but they cant change their heritage withing the span of a single generation

Who said anything about a single generation? The first generation born in the U.S. are most likely to consider themselves Americans (and beyond that it's essentially a given). Culture (ethnicity, especially) and nationality are separate concepts. Oh, and anthropologist pet peeve: there is no such thing as a "sub-culture." Chicano culture is just that, no "sub" needed.

My point in connecting them to the Normans was that the Normans had already established themselves as French for at least several generations by the time William the Conqueror crossed the strait to kick Saxon ass (someone trying to disclaim French credit for the Battle of Hastings).

 

[ccdistancerunner]

My personal feeling on the French are:
Invaded and nearly taken completely over until America and other allies bailed them out in WWI.
Surrendered in WWII until America and other allies bailed them out.
Had a failtacular in Vietnam, even with America trying to bail them out, not that America did any better.
So recent history has not been good for the French. Not so much for the American either, but at least we kicked ass and saved France in WWI and II.

 

[axia777]

The only real reason France fell so fast in WW2 is because they were one of the first countries hit with blitzkrieg. This was before the Allies had a chance to observe the tactic and find countermeasures to it. Had France had been able to witness Blitzkrieg as the Britain's were able to (as they turned tail and rain away back to the UK when the French needed them the most) I'm sure things would have turned out differently as France actually did have the most powerful land army at the time (little known fact). It wasn't a matter of throwing down their guns and yelling "WE SURRENDER!". It was "instead of watching as millions of civilians and soldiers die needlessly, let's surrender to unsure their safety and hope that the Britain's can learn from our defeat."

Yah, I all ready pointed that one out and most people here seemed to ignore it.

 

[Emeli]

My personal feeling on the French are:
Invaded and nearly taken completely over until America and other allies bailed them out in WWI.
Surrendered in WWII until America and other allies bailed them out.
Had a failtacular in Vietnam, even with America trying to bail them out, not that America did any better.
So recent history has not been good for the French. Not so much for the American either, but at least we kicked ass and saved France in WWI and II.

Hilarious. "Why would the French be snooty to us?"

I mean, I'm not disputing the facts here, you're quite right, it's the "America and other allies" part. Like we Aussies and Poms and Gurkas and all the other nations that sacrificed tens or hundreds of thousands of troops were just there by coincidence.

It's not at all like America decided to stay out of it and let the Nazis do whatever the hell they wanted until they were attacked.

France has been accused of premature surrender, but quite frankly, France suffered some of the most horrific damage during both WWs. I mean just hit wikipedia, look up a war and see how many times the word "France" is used without being followed by "was the battleground for" or "took heavy damage" or "lost x many men".

Everyone else was SENDING their guys to France. They were the ones who had civillians caught in the crossfire.

So really, I think this stereotype is undeserved.

 

[asinann]

We already paid that debt off, we gave the cash back in the 1800's and then the "saved their asses" part in WW1. We don't owe shit as a nation to anyone. Well maybe an apology to a few individuals, but not to entire nations.

That is all besides the point. I also never said we owed them anything. I just think that if it were not for them we would not be America, period. The British would have overwhelmed us tith their economic superiority.

I also would like to know why do you hate France so damn much? They are relatively decent country that does less harm to the world than America. What is the problem?

I dislike the French because I've never met one that wasn't a prick (and I've met enough to have met a fairly broad spectrum of them.) They were all nice and friendly until they heard I was an American though.