Well I won't be buying the new Tomb Raider...

[Soxafloppin]

I'l be getting it.

Not because of some symbolism of having Average sized tits, but because it looks like a Good game, which when you consider we're talking about a Tomb Raider game is really something..

What, you're not an Angel of Darkness fan?

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope.

I do like Legend though, it hasn't aged very well but I enjoyed it at the time, hated underworld..

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

If Lara Croft was male, I'd see no issue. And I doubt anyone would.

So what's the problem if it's a female instead? Sure, there's rape. SURPRISE! RAPE EXISTS IN THE REAL WORLD, AND PEOPLE TRY TO DO IT ON WOMEN. It's up to the artists to use any method they think of to bring about their intended atmosphere, and you can criticize the execution, but not the fact that it's there in the first place. Because that's not criticism, it's attempted censorship.

That's all good and well but the fact of the matter is that people don't like seeing it in their entertainment. And in this day and age if your girlfriend doesn't like it then you're not getting it.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

If Lara Croft was male, I'd see no issue. And I doubt anyone would.

So what's the problem if it's a female instead? Sure, there's rape. SURPRISE! RAPE EXISTS IN THE REAL WORLD, AND PEOPLE TRY TO DO IT ON WOMEN. It's up to the artists to use any method they think of to bring about their intended atmosphere, and you can criticize the execution, but not the fact that it's there in the first place. Because that's not criticism, it's attempted censorship.

That's all good and well but the fact of the matter is that people don't like seeing it in their entertainment. And in this day and age if your girlfriend doesn't like it then you're not getting it.

 

[The Funslinger]

Am I getting it right that pointing out any feminine feature of a woman is sexist now to someone?

I know.

To the OP: Alright, when you next go on holiday, I'll sabotage your cruise, have you wind up on a ruin filled desert jungle island with people inexplicably trying to harm you, and let's see how you handle it.

It's going to be a fun summer! 8D

Edit: Jungle island, not desert. Golly, what an embarrassing faux pas.

 

[illas]

The game is about a young woman on an expedition that goes pear-shaped. Ugly shit goes down and she has to fight to survive. Why is this getting people's hackles up? Would people be getting upset if it was a guy?

Agreed, that fact that they are addressing a primarily female issue in a typically male-led entertainment medium is potentially a good thing, and not a cause for white knights to cry "protect the innocent women from conceptual atrocities". Furthermore the novel The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was very popular with women so I would suggest that provided it is handled appropriately, rape is a valid (if taboo) dramatic element.

OP/OT: Yes, I think you're over-reacting, particularly since you haven't experienced the implementation. The trailer felt dark, scary, and oppressive - and provided that the potential rape is handled similarly, ie: is not glamorised, sexualised or explicit (and the game is rated appropriately) I don't see it being a cause for moral outrage.

Indeed, one could argue that if men and boys are given even the vaguest sense of the terrifying and disgusting reality of rape... well, that could be a small force for good.

 

[The Funslinger]

If you're going to go female empowerment route you have to go the Hunger Games direction.

What, random whiny monologue from a girl with ultimately inconsequential skills with a Twilight-esque love triangle and the protagonist's importance ultimately comes from being a superficial figurehead?

That's a bit shit.

And to be honest, I'd say blocking off all potential creative avenues and stating there's only one allowed route for women to reach empowerment is infinitely more sexist than anything the new Lara Croft game has thrown at us.

 

[TheScottishFella]

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You two said the same thing which bug me a bit. I will probably be called sexist or whatever, but on the internet I don't think I could give a damn.

While I understand that the idea of "You want to protect her" makes it sound derogatory but is it really? I mean essentially they want to make her a character you will like so will want to protect her, since you will have hopefully feelings with the character herself, otherwise it would be a character we don't find any need to protect and if that's the case what's the point? We protect every player character in our games through our actions. This is supposed to be Lauras first time out on one of these adventures, she is not some badass bringing guns to the battle she is the equivalent of a University student being lost in the wild, never having to deal with something like this before and is weaker for it. Be it male or female you should want to protect this character as they evolve and eventually begin to come to grips with their surroundings (much like Far Cry 3 I might add, but hey it's a male so that makes it alright!)

People are getting really sensitive with these sort of issues and while I have no problems with it, unless the two people I have quoted are themselves female then are making speculations on what females find offensive which I find slightly derogatory. But what do I know I'm a 16 year old male spouting opinions on a forum that doesn't give a damn, so there is that .

 

[peruvianskys]

I think it's awesome that we have a video game where a woman kills her attempted rapist. That's hardcore.

Honestly, I think this, if handled correctly, could be a great first step towards a realistic feminism in games. I'm excited!

 

[immortalfrieza]

I hope the game is more than 'Watch horrible things happen to the Lara Croft.

It's incredibly unlikely that this Tomb Raider reboot is going to be just one moment of Lara being tortured by everything after another for several hours straight, that would make for a VERY bad game. Besides, everybody here are making assumptions based on a 3 minute trailer and a Kotaku article which takes everything Rosenburg said completely out of context to make him sound like an typical out of touch developer douchebag, when in fact he's anything but.

For a much more positive and ACCURATE look at what's going to be in the new Tomb Raider game, look at this article: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/12/the-two-deaths-that-defined-tomb-raider/#more-111538

 

[kortin]

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You two said the same thing which bug me a bit. I will probably be called sexist or whatever, but on the internet I don't think I could give a damn.

While I understand that the idea of "You want to protect her" makes it sound derogatory but is it really? I mean essentially they want to make her a character you will like so will want to protect her, since you will have hopefully feelings with the character herself, otherwise it would be a character we don't find any need to protect and if that's the case what's the point? We protect every player character in our games through our actions. This is supposed to be Lauras first time out on one of these adventures, she is not some badass bringing guns to the battle she is the equivalent of a University student being lost in the wild, never having to deal with something like this before and is weaker for it. Be it male or female you should want to protect this character as they evolve and eventually begin to come to grips with their surroundings (much like Far Cry 3 I might add, but hey it's a male so that makes it alright!)

People are getting really sensitive with these sort of issues and while I have no problems with it, unless the two people I have quoted are themselves female then are making speculations on what females find offensive which I find slightly derogatory. But what do I know I'm a 16 year old male spouting opinions on a forum that doesn't give a damn, so there is that .

The whole "you want to protect her" is incredibly derogatory, for the situation. Lara is supposed to be an ideal woman (in the sense of attitude and mindset, at the least. The physical characteristics are nigh impossible to achieve), she's brave, smart, and knows what she's doing. She doesn't need someone to baby her and tell her everything is going to be okay. They're taking great character traits, throwing them in the garbage, and coming up with entirely new ones. They need to have core traits that will stay with her and that she's always had. There's no such thing as taking all of your signature traits and throwing them in the garbage to get brand new ones, which is basically what's happening (from the transition from this game to the first games, since this is supposed to be in the past). In order to Lara to be Lara, she has to have some core traits that COULD NOT BE CHANGED (i.e. Bravery, Intelligence). What they're describing is some happy-go-lucky teen girl who hasn't the slightest inch of bravery or intelligence.

It's not a "Hey, they're giving her more depth", it's "hey, let's RAPE everything about her and just make up impossible stories!"

By saying "you want to protect her", they're perpetuating the stereotype that women need to be coddled and protected, when, in this day and age, they don't.

 

[JediMB]

Ngh. I truly hope that Rosenberg's statements do not reflect the intentions of the rest of the team. His attitude just reeks of sexism not just in regards to Lara as a character, but also to men's ability to project themselves into female characters. I mean... making it easier to see a bit of yourself in her seemed to be the entire point of turning Lara into a more human and relatable character. (Not to mention that women play games too.)

I'm not going to let this make me lose hope or interest in the game, though. Not yet.

 

[kortin]

Wait, so attempting to turn wank-material into an actual character and fill out the origin story to explain why the hot sociopath Lara Croft appeared is now a BAD thing?

Reading that review actually made me much more willing to get this Tomb Raider a chance!

Seriously, get the fuck off your high horse.

This actually sounds like an interesting story.

So overly-sexualised characters are bad. Believably proportioned characters that go through hardship are bad. You know what?

I wash my hands of this entire debate. Before I saw the point. My account took one hell of a beating over the TERA promotional pictures, I educate myself, you get the idea.

But if the games industry goes "Fine! Have a believable, weak, interesting female protagonist that becomes the badass we know" and the reaction is "SHE IS TOO WEAK YOU CHAUVINISTIC BASTARDS" then I don't care about the debate any more.

Fuck it. Bring on the tits. If you don't want to play nice, you don't deserve equal representation in games.

The Other M.

Another situation in which the developers tried to turn a strong female character into a "believable character". We all know how that played out.

 

[JediMB]

The Other M.

Another situation in which the developers tried to turn a strong female character into a "believable character". We all know how that played out.

Also a result of a game designer (Yoshio Sakamoto) getting too much influence over a game, which lead to him assuming roles he isn't suited for. (Writing and voice direction, for starters.)

 

[MarlonBlazed]

Origin story's suck ass, if you're going to have an origin story you're better off making it multiple choice.

 

[TheScottishFella]

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Here's the thing right. No-one is protecting her in game. So, it's not throwing all her traits out the window, she's just a little bit more inexperienced. She is still surviving on her own with no help and is using her intelligence to get out of situations. So... yeah.