"Western games don't have good storys"

[akibawall95]

Bioware.

Wups there goes everything Bob claimed right out the window.

Dammit.

I guess I'll have to be more specific and say Mass Effect.

I agree but I find that the DA stories are more compelling, I still love Mass Effect though.

OT: Not all western games have bad stories it is just harder to find a good one. Not all non-western games have good stories either. It does not matter where a game is from it matters who writes the stories.

 

[LuckyClover95]

I just played Yakuza 4 and I love the story and the combat so far, also I like the culture of Japan and I love the enviroment....

YAKUZA 4 is out?!?! <3 <3 <3 <3
Is it out in England?

 

[funguy2121]

Ok Bob what the hell are you talking about?

anyway If you havnt seen MovieBobs video basically thats what he said

now dont get me wrong Im not about to go ranting about Moviebob even after all the crazy stuff he said about PC gaming dying I dont have to agree with him all the time to respect his opionion (no not in that case however, that just felt like trolling)

anyway If by that perhaps he means that when it comes Down to it most games storys are not the complex and are generally at B movie level, then yes I can sort of understand where he's coming from

however I still think plenty of games have good storys and sure I dont ask much from videogame storys other than they keep me interested at least

but what alternitive is he talking about? JRPG's? yeah because we know how highly regarded they are around thease parts....."especially" for their storys

that said how ever I dont know much about Japanese games

Which column/web comic are you referring to, OP?

MovieBob seemed fine with Metroid: Other M's story, and that story sucked ass. The murderer? What murderer? Let's not even mention it. And y'know that cool direction we were going in where it looked like the alway-holy Federation was harvesting metroids as bioweapons? Yeah, let's tie a neat little bow on it and say it was just a few bad apples (and never identify them) so no one can come after us and make an actually decent game.

 

[zehydra]

Meh.

All games have bad stories. Regardless of whether they come from east or west.

Even the really good games are only on the level of a mediocre film or book. Bioshock, Mass Effect 1&2, Dragon Age, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Portal, Half Life 2, Sands of Time, Assassin's Creed, The Longest Journey, whatever.

You can kid yourself all you like but the hard truth is that in terms of storytelling, every single one of them, and any other game you care to name, pales in comparison to a well-written book.

And that's because Novels are a medium for story-telling.

it is not necessary for a good game to have a story, but a Novel lacking a story would be sort of against the point of the novel

 

[Enosh_]

MovieBob seemed fine with Metroid: Other M's story, and that story sucked ass.

ofcourse he was fine with it, it's japanese afterall and god forbid he dared to criticize something that's out of Japan

 

[Delicious Anathema]

I prefer direct storylines with a purpose, even if it's only unraveled at the end.

Artsy crappy non-stories and minimalist plots are something that should be exorcised. Silent Hill or, speaking of movies/TV, Inception, Twilight Zone and Alfred Hitchcock Presents is as far as I'm willing to go for something I actually have to think about. They're the ideal middle ground.

 

[omegawyrm]

Since the option to "Quote" isn't working... to anyone who is a smug enough douche bag to think the reason people don't like FFX is that they don't "get it", or other JRPG crap... fuck you. No really, I hate that default sanctimonious bullshit. We get it, the dude's a dream, it's just stupid like a lot of Eastern stories. Maybe if you're a part of that culture you can appreciate it more, but we in the West are raised traditionally to appreciate different, more logical types of stories. Now if you INSIST on being a Goddamn snowflake, go ahead you lame-ass weeaboo, but the rest of us aren't imbeciles, just because we prefer a narative not reliant on God killing manifestations of idiocy.

/endrant

When so many members of the western forum community express this kind of sentiment, it makes it pretty easy to disregard all those criticisms as xenophobic ignorance. I play and like a lot of Western games but this sort of thing makes it annoying to interact with the entire community. On the internet it's not cool to like a lot of things anymore.

 

[sageoftruth]

Actually here is the dealio.

Western games have crappy stories, but great unfolding of the narrative (Uncharted, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc...), meaning the way the story is told adds in the strengths. Think about it for a minute, Mass Effects story is pretty 'eh eh eh?' at best, yet the way it's told, and how all the world is held together is what adds the strength to it.

On the other hand, the Eastern games have more 'varied' themes of a game's story, but they lack the ability of make the narrative worth two craps. Take for example Knights Contract:

An evil Lord goes on a Witch purge, and decided to kill a clan of Witches which wants to help common people, yet the people get riled against them because of the Evil Lord manipulations. The guys who is tasked as the one to kill the Witches doesn't want to see the truth and accepts what is happening due to his own fear being outcast from society.
So a Witch curses him to be immortal, making him into something he feared he would be looked down upon as.
The Witches which are killed all come back to life, and are monsters (variations of 7 sins) and now want to destroy humans, but one of their sisters with the main character have to stop them.

However, the game isn't worth two crap in the story department because everything is drawn out so badly, it's not funny. The Witches all talk in a voice of boredom, the pacing is horrible with dialog that sounds...off, the events are employed at random (in one scene, the characters have the chance to fight the evil lord, but they say 'it's not now the time', and later on are in some other even that cannot even relate to the previous event). Lack of proper narrative, muddy progression and lack of coherent plot settings.

So yeah, if only Western and Eastern game developers actually joined forced, then maybe we could something that is worth two craps.

Wow. Consider my mind officially opened. I hope everyone reads this comment.

 

[wolf thing]

Planescape: Torment

(theme, characters, dialogue mechanics, choices, etc)

/thread

this it is a great game and i have yet to see an eastern game come close to it.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Bioware.

Wups there goes everything Bob claimed right out the window.

Well, there's a difference between a good story and good writing.

Think about the "Story" for Mass Effect.

There are evil robot aliens that want to destroy all life in the universe and you are the only one who can stop them.

or Dragon Age

There's a race of evil monsters that want to destroy all life on the planet and you are the only one who can stop them. There's also this guy on a power trip and you are the only one who can stop him.

Sorry for sounding like Yahtzee but I'm trying to make a point

Bioware has some of the best writing in the videogames industry. And some really top notch subplot structure (that would all be cut if they made a Mass Effect or Dragon Age movie)

You have to realize that Bob's a Nintendo fanboy....2 out of the 4 videogames he said would make good movies have the story "Save the Princess."
Mario: A plumber saves a princess by jumping on turtles.
Zelda: A kid saves a princes by throwing a boomerang at a pig.
I don't see good movies being made out of either of those stories.

Personally I think Tales of Symphonia would make a good movie.

Mostly because you'd have a good 2 hour story arc if you cut out all the

Spoiler: repeated dialog!

Renegade Commander: We are the Renegades, we only look like the Desians.
Lloyd: so you're not the Desians.
Renegade Commander: Right.
Lloyd: You're the Renegades.
Renegade Commander: Right.
Lloyd: You only look like the Desians.
Renegade Commander: That's right.
Lloyd: But you're not the Desians.
Renegade Commander: Correct.
Lloyd: You're the Renegades.
Renegade Commander: I already said that.
Lloyd: But you look like the Desians.
Renegade Commander: Is this guy with you?
Genis: They're the Renegades, they only look like the Desians.
Lloyd: So they're not the Desians.
*this goes on for about a 15 minute exposition dump*

Games should be games and movies should be movies, only games should have better writing.

 

[Declan Skews]

but what alternitive is he talking about? JRPG's? yeah because we know how highly regarded they are around thease parts....."especially" for their storys

that said how ever I dont know much about Japanese games

You slam Japanese games with one breath and then admit to not having s solid working knowledge of them the next. That is either the height of ignorance or just downright arrogant. Not really sure which. If you are going to express a negative opinion on something, at least make sure you are speaking from a position of relative knowledge and understanding.

And just to set the record straight, I like JRPGs but no, I am not commenting on your apparent dislike of JRPGs so much as I am commenting on the fact that you admit that you do not really know much about them.

As far as game stories go, I cannot agree with your statements at all as I feel there are some amazing stories within games and I personally feel that most games I play have better stories than most movies I watch. Some games I feel have stories that match, if not surpass, some novels that I have read.

As far as the whole thing about Western games and stories go, I personally enjoyed the stories of Red Dead Redemption and Half-Life 2 and I felt they were quite well written. Other than that, the story within any game has the potential to be as good or as bad as the writer(s) make it. If you get a talented writer to write the story of a Western game then it may well have the most amazing story of all time. Conversely it may not. Making the generalisation that the quality of the story within a game is dependent on where it was developed is complete nonsense.

 

[JoeThree]

Since the option to "Quote" isn't working... to anyone who is a smug enough douche bag to think the reason people don't like FFX is that they don't "get it", or other JRPG crap... fuck you. No really, I hate that default sanctimonious bullshit. We get it, the dude's a dream, it's just stupid like a lot of Eastern stories. Maybe if you're a part of that culture you can appreciate it more, but we in the West are raised traditionally to appreciate different, more logical types of stories. Now if you INSIST on being a Goddamn snowflake, go ahead you lame-ass weeaboo, but the rest of us aren't imbeciles, just because we prefer a narative not reliant on God killing manifestations of idiocy.

/endrant

When so many members of the western forum community express this kind of sentiment, it makes it pretty easy to disregard all those criticisms as xenophobic ignorance. I play and like a lot of Western games but this sort of thing makes it annoying to interact with the entire community. On the internet it's not cool to like a lot of things anymore.

I'm sorry, did I attack the Japanese or another culture as being "inferior"? I said that Americans who go out of their way to get all gushy over games that are illogical and stupid and pretend they're something better, usually BECAUSE they're not Western games are idiots. I said that calling people stupid for not liking a game you like because you insist on being "unique" is in itself stupidity. Or are you outright defending the "sound reason" behind the dreams of mages, yada yada, God killed?

 

[Jake0fTrades]

Stupid stories don't come from stupid cultures, stupid stories come from stupid people.

 

[Declan Skews]

Since the option to "Quote" isn't working... to anyone who is a smug enough douche bag to think the reason people don't like FFX is that they don't "get it", or other JRPG crap... fuck you. No really, I hate that default sanctimonious bullshit. We get it, the dude's a dream, it's just stupid like a lot of Eastern stories. Maybe if you're a part of that culture you can appreciate it more, but we in the West are raised traditionally to appreciate different, more logical types of stories. Now if you INSIST on being a Goddamn snowflake, go ahead you lame-ass weeaboo, but the rest of us aren't imbeciles, just because we prefer a narative not reliant on God killing manifestations of idiocy.

/endrant

When so many members of the western forum community express this kind of sentiment, it makes it pretty easy to disregard all those criticisms as xenophobic ignorance. I play and like a lot of Western games but this sort of thing makes it annoying to interact with the entire community. On the internet it's not cool to like a lot of things anymore.

I'm sorry, did I attack the Japanese or another culture as being "inferior"? I said that Americans who go out of their way to get all gushy over games that are illogical and stupid and pretend they're something better, usually BECAUSE they're not Western games are idiots. I said that calling people stupid for not liking a game you like because you insist on being "unique" is in itself stupidity. Or are you outright defending the "sound reason" behind the dreams of mages, yada yada, God killed?

So you don't like the story to FFX and that makes it "stupid" and 'illogical'? If you personally don't find some logical, that doesn't make it illogical; it just makes it illogical to *you*. Just like if you don't like the story, that doesn't make it a bad story, it just means you don't like that story.

Just to point out that calling another cultures stories wierd and illogical etc. is just kind of pathetic and offensive. They're different. No more, no less. I think that is what the other poster was getting at when (s)he used the term "xenophobic". Although to the other poster, don't throw words like "xenophobic" around like that. They are very strong words and often incorrect or unnecessary. It may seem like I am just knit-picking based on the terminology used in this little spat but, IMHO, people do seem to get things like "I don't like that story" confused with "it's a crap story" all to often. Different words, different meanings. Be specific and say what you actually mean. May help avoid flame-wars in the future.

 

[Durxom]

Personally I think Tales of Symphonia would make a good movie.

You do know that there is an OVA series of the game out already? =P

First 4 episodes of the Sylvarant arc are out already, and I think there might be more episodes covering the Tethe'alla arc, but I'm not sure, I haven't kept track of it in a while... you might want to check it out!



...Other than that, I don't really have much to add thats on topic...

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Since the option to "Quote" isn't working... to anyone who is a smug enough douche bag to think the reason people don't like FFX is that they don't "get it", or other JRPG crap... fuck you. No really, I hate that default sanctimonious bullshit. We get it, the dude's a dream, it's just stupid like a lot of Eastern stories. Maybe if you're a part of that culture you can appreciate it more, but we in the West are raised traditionally to appreciate different, more logical types of stories. Now if you INSIST on being a Goddamn snowflake, go ahead you lame-ass weeaboo, but the rest of us aren't imbeciles, just because we prefer a narative not reliant on God killing manifestations of idiocy.

/endrant

When so many members of the western forum community express this kind of sentiment, it makes it pretty easy to disregard all those criticisms as xenophobic ignorance. I play and like a lot of Western games but this sort of thing makes it annoying to interact with the entire community. On the internet it's not cool to like a lot of things anymore.

I'm sorry, did I attack the Japanese or another culture as being "inferior"? I said that Americans who go out of their way to get all gushy over games that are illogical and stupid and pretend they're something better, usually BECAUSE they're not Western games are idiots. I said that calling people stupid for not liking a game you like because you insist on being "unique" is in itself stupidity. Or are you outright defending the "sound reason" behind the dreams of mages, yada yada, God killed?

Here's the thing, it's not illogical, you're just too close-minded to see that.



Suspension of disbelief is required of you in any game, western or not. If you choose to not do that, and then sit by and call things "stupid" or "illogical" then you're being an idiot. That's not the way to appreciate games. You should let your line of thought get molded by the game you play, you should experience events as though they are supposed to function in the GAME world. You should basically have the distinction, the basic line of difference, the idea that games and reality are NOTTTTTTT the same and that just because a game isn't following reality it doesn't mean it's in any form less legitimate than those that do.



Instead of being combative or calling people who like Japanese things weaboos, how about trying to understand the way these games are supposed to be experienced?





Nobody likes these games just because they're not western. It's not as if you'd take something like call of duty and suddenly more people will be into it if it was made in Japan. It's the intrinsic characteristics of something that is not western the what we like, not the simple fact that it's not western.

 

[funguy2121]

MovieBob seemed fine with Metroid: Other M's story, and that story sucked ass.

ofcourse he was fine with it, it's japanese afterall and god forbid he dared to criticize something that's out of Japan

I don't think he's as simplistic as that.