What about the queer female gamers?

[Ghengis_tron]

It's possible I may be too lethargic to really get into this issue, BTW I only brought up race because that card can always be played in any situation.

I wish you the best of luck fighting this issue.

 

[ryuutchi]

By all means, tell people they are being sexist, homophobic or racist. Just don't get angry when they throw even more bile at you. I wasn't stupid enough to tell those beaners that beat the shit out of me "white's are people two! you shouldn't act racist like this!". They probably would have killed me. I dealt with it and moved on, just as you should when people throw homophobic remarks at you.

Yeah, I'm going to quote this and just sort of stare at it. It's sort of beautiful in that trifecta of racism, homophobia and sheer ignorance.

Seriously, beaners?

 

[G-Mang]

To be honest, I'm a little surprised by the negative response this topic is getting. While it's understandable that it would be hard to find lesbian video game developers to write articles, a little bit of page space on the topic would've been a good inclusion.

Real lesbianism is a rarity in media. Most depictions of it are more about being the objects of voyeuristic gaze than any actual female agency. The parallels and discrepancies between lesbianism and male homosexuality in games and media in general would've made for an interesting piece, or at least a noteworthy mention.

I think all marginalized groups have a cycle to break past in the gaming business.
1. Developers are straight white men.
2. Developers make what they know from the perspective with which they're familiar.
3. What developers make doesn't attract different perspectives.
4. Next generation of developers are just like step 1. Rinse and repeat.

Getting current developers to add in some diversity might help, but it's financially risky and would be creatively very difficult (you risk offending your old audience as well as misrepresenting--and therefore also offending--your desired new audience). What needs to happen is more diverse authorship, and you can't really force that in a healthy way. You just need to encourage people who understand different perspectives to get into gaming and development, and encourage other people to be more open-minded. Forcing anything in terms of development or design would produce artificial, counterproductive results; the next "GTA" shouldn't be gay, but it wouldn't hurt if the next "Braid" was (metaphorically speaking on those titles), if you get what I mean.

Until that happens, there isn't very much discourse can do with the situation. Some mention for it, though, would've been nice, and it does seem to be a glaringly curious deficiency in an otherwise enjoyable issue.

 

[Drunkfather]

I never really get bothered by anything, I will usually dismiss something and leave it at that. But do you also see the point that other posters were making in the fact that to appease everyone the magazine will systematically have to go through every race and orientation? Yeah maybe they left out lesbian gamers, but they left several others out as well.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with doing issues on other groups. I mean, this issue wasn't about race, so why would they have to deal with race? And think that dealing with at least the major four big orientations (LGBT, anyone?) isn't really that much of a hardship, so I'm not sure why "they'd have to go through every orientation" is such an awful thing. It's not like they haven't written articles on a host of topics.

So only homosexuals are worthy of recognition? I don't mean to troll, but you don't seem very open minded... Only gays can be the group that is under represented and hated. Yet, I hate to break it to you, my sexuality is not what I find gives me the most shit on a day to day basis. Being in a white, wealthy neighborhood, I am "the black kid" and as I walk down the street, I am the one getting watched by everyone outside. I have been stopped by the police on my walk home before; I had to show my I.D. to prove I lived in this area.

I am sure it is probably similar for the white males living in the low income housing areas here.

 

[ryuutchi]

To be honest, I'm a little surprised by the negative response this topic is getting. While it's understandable that it would be hard to find lesbian video game developers to write articles, a little bit of page space on the topic would've been a good inclusion.

[Snip for totally awesome critique]

I think I love you.

 

[Hatman Jam]

I've had my heart broken many a time by the lesbian gamer :C

 

[ryuutchi]

So only homosexuals are worthy of recognition? I don't mean to troll, but you don't seem very open minded... Only gays can be the group that is under represented and hated. Yet, I hate to break it to you, my sexuality is not what I find gives me the most shit on a day to day basis. Being in a white, wealthy neighborhood, I am "the black kid" and as I walk down the street, I am the one getting watched by everyone outside. I have been stopped by the police on my walk home before; I had to show my I.D. to prove I lived in this area.

I am sure it is probably similar for the white males living in the low income housing areas here.

Sorry, I think I put that wrong. I didn't mean that race wasn't worth an issue in and of itself. Just that I wouldn't complain if the Queer Eye issue didn't include an article on Blacks in gaming, because it's supposed to be about gays. I think that racism in games and gaming could take up six months worth of Escapist issues, and still have a lot of worthy topics that should be written about.

My point was only that when someone says "well, if you complain they didn't talk about lesbians, they'll have to talk about EVERY race and orientation" they generally mean "in this issue, right now, you want all of these things talked about." Which isn't true. I think the gay issue should have covered the major gay contingents, and that race, while a topic more than worthwhile, can and should get an issue all to itself.

 

[G-Mang]

Better question:

Who the fuck gives a damn?

It might be my overly-sensitive UCSC film studies talking, but are comments like this not blatantly offensive?

Maybe I'm confused.

 

[sneakypenguin]

By all means, tell people they are being sexist, homophobic or racist. Just don't get angry when they throw even more bile at you. I wasn't stupid enough to tell those beaners that beat the shit out of me "white's are people two! you shouldn't act racist like this!". They probably would have killed me. I dealt with it and moved on, just as you should when people throw homophobic remarks at you.

Yeah, I'm going to quote this and just sort of stare at it. It's sort of beautiful in that trifecta of racism, homophobia and sheer ignorance.

Seriously, beaners?

A label for someone isn't racist though, just defining of who someone is. If I say someone is a wigger, chav or whatever then you know its a gangsta white kid. Same with beaner, cracker, or whatever term people use nowdays.

Its normal lingo probably from where he grew up. Just like if I call some of the people around my school rednecks or hicks it doens't mean they are inferior just that they came from the mtns or sorounding country. Its an identifier.

 

[grimsprice]

By all means, tell people they are being sexist, homophobic or racist. Just don't get angry when they throw even more bile at you. I wasn't stupid enough to tell those beaners that beat the shit out of me "white's are people two! you shouldn't act racist like this!". They probably would have killed me. I dealt with it and moved on, just as you should when people throw homophobic remarks at you.

Yeah, I'm going to quote this and just sort of stare at it. It's sort of beautiful in that trifecta of racism, homophobia and sheer ignorance.

Seriously, beaners?

Yes, i did that on purpose for a reason... you must have missed it... nevermind.

But i fail to see whats wrong with the statements otherwise. Where exactly is the ignorance and homophobia? I'd like to know that...

Demanding that everyone respect you and cater to your difference is akin to shaking your fist at a mountain. Whats the point? Adapt to your surroundings, a lot of people have to. And they do without so much as an outward grumble.

Uh... huh. You have the perspective to understand? Really? Because white boys? So oppressed.

I don't think i quite got my point across. For the first 18 years of my life i live in a town that was 85% hispanic. When i say i couldn't go to the park and play frisbee with my friends i'm serious. Verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing white kids was the norm. I remember what it was like to be afraid. I just want you to comprehend what my anecdote was a part of. It was part of a situation indistinguishable from your own.

Accept that going onto Live is going into the fire, just as i had to accept that going to the park or the paintball range was going into the fire.

Well, didn't you deal with it eventually by moving out of that town? Isn't it a little easier to find a place where it's safe to be white than to find a place where it's safe to be...a member of just about any other group?

Thats not really the point is it? I was fortunate enough to get out. What about all the people who didn't have the means to move? They have to deal with it in some way while they are there. Just as i did. I'm just saying, if you are going to go into the fire, then be ready to deal with the heat. If you can't take all the 12 year old boys screaming homophobic remarks on Live then don't go on Live.

 

[Drunkfather]

So only homosexuals are worthy of recognition? I don't mean to troll, but you don't seem very open minded... Only gays can be the group that is under represented and hated. Yet, I hate to break it to you, my sexuality is not what I find gives me the most shit on a day to day basis. Being in a white, wealthy neighborhood, I am "the black kid" and as I walk down the street, I am the one getting watched by everyone outside. I have been stopped by the police on my walk home before; I had to show my I.D. to prove I lived in this area.

I am sure it is probably similar for the white males living in the low income housing areas here.

Sorry, I think I put that wrong. I didn't mean that race wasn't worth an issue in and of itself. Just that I wouldn't complain if the Queer Eye issue didn't include an article on Blacks in gaming, because it's supposed to be about gays. I think that racism in games and gaming could take up six months worth of Escapist issues, and still have a lot of worthy topics that should be written about.

My point was only that when someone says "well, if you complain they didn't talk about lesbians, they'll have to talk about EVERY race and orientation" they generally mean "in this issue, right now, you want all of these things talked about." Which isn't true. I think the gay issue should have covered the major gay contingents, and that race, while a topic more than worthwhile can and should get an issue all to itself.

I agree with your point that there is a hint of sexism with the absence of lesbian oriented articles. Yet, I don't think this was meant to be a individual acknowledgement. I believe this was more of a blanket type of way to point out that there are others out there with different life styles. I can clearly see why it was aimed at male homosexuals, since males are, again, the majority group in gaming and that it is harder for a male to be open of his sexuality and receives more flak from his sexuality. I agree that it is piggish how fetishfied lesbianism has become and I also agree that is why it is more accepted, but face it, it -is easier to accept- for most people. My lesbian friends have no problem holding hands and such in public, the last time I did such PDA, I was followed out of the store by a group of loud teenagers.

All in all, I do take note of the absence, yet I accept it with a second thought. However, I do see how other minorities could find unrest in a lack of acknowledgement for them as well.

 

[grimsprice]

By all means, tell people they are being sexist, homophobic or racist. Just don't get angry when they throw even more bile at you. I wasn't stupid enough to tell those beaners that beat the shit out of me "white's are people two! you shouldn't act racist like this!". They probably would have killed me. I dealt with it and moved on, just as you should when people throw homophobic remarks at you.

Yeah, I'm going to quote this and just sort of stare at it. It's sort of beautiful in that trifecta of racism, homophobia and sheer ignorance.

Seriously, beaners?

A label for someone isn't racist though, just defining of who someone is. If I say someone is a wigger, chav or whatever then you know its a gangsta white kid. Same with beaner, cracker, or whatever term people use nowdays.

Its normal lingo probably from where he grew up. Just like if I call some of the people around my school rednecks or hicks it doens't mean they are inferior just that they came from the mtns or sorounding country. Its an identifier.

Yeah, i guess i do need to explain what was meant.

Where i came from a beaner was a hispanic kid with parents directly from Mexico, they hang with other 'beaners' and hate white kids because without highschool diplomas their parents can only get jobs in the orchards. They have a lot of hate for the often white orchard owners that hire their parents.

Basically a beaner is a hateful name for someone who hates, hence the purposeful use of it... i guess without context y'all missed it.

 

[Magnatek]

The "law" of the world dictates that all gamers are lumped into one main group. Sadly, the majority of the world does not realize that this is not the case. I agree somewhat with what you say. Personally, I know a few people who have a similar background to yours(though I'm not sure about their stances on feminism). However, only one of them are considered a gamer, and I'm pretty sure she, like you, is lumped in with the rest of us.

I may not be able to understand your story (what with pretty much being the absolute stereotype of a gamer and all), but that doesn't mean two things:

1. That I don't support your cause. We may be lumped together as a single group of gamers. Why not do something about it together? And...

2. Everyone else doesn't understand your story. Look at your thread's posts. You'll find that there are all kinds of people in the gaming community, and each one of us can understand one another, if given the motive.

 

[Lyri]

No, it doesn't say that. But the arguments made in every article focus around gay men. Even Main's article on genderqueer character focused on male characters who aren't male-gender-normative. Alice Bonasio's (excellent) article focuses exclusively on male gamers and game developers. Robert Yang's (also excellent) article was, as he himself noted, coming directly from a gay male point of view.

The points of view are coming from gay people, their gender isn't the issue for the article.

Nothing in the article says that all gay gamers are male. Nothing in the articles, however, mention women at all, so one could be excused for inferring that all gay gamers are apparently male.

Right inferring, case and point made.

These articles are highlighting the opinions, experiances of the Gay community, not just lesbians or the gay males.

 

[Stalk3rchief]

I view gay women the same way I do gay men; with uninterest. If your gay, your gay, that's it. In fact, only homophobic people and those moral fags who believe "God hates faggots" [Their words! Not mine, take no offense.]

I guess women don't get the attention the men do because, well, people hate gays because they hate the idea of a man taking it up the butt. Sodomy has always been frowned on, and is one of the main things anti-gay religious people tend to bring up.

*Shrug*

Edit: I think I misunderstood the point.

[small] User was banned for being unbiased.[/small]