What about the queer female gamers?

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damselgaming

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stinkychops said:
Studies suggest the majority of metal listeners are creative and upstanding members of society. (See ABC for citation).
Slightly off topic but it's totally true. I have never met anyone who dresses in the stereotypical 'metalhead' fashion who isn't a damn lovely person.

On topic, REALLY? Does it matter that much?
I mean it's not like it's important. When I play as a male character in a game I don't think "Oh NOOOOO, now my gaming experience is RUINED!". I play games so I don't have to be me all the time.
Women! Nag-nag-nag-nag.
 

Lord George

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Well the percentage of proper female gamers (not casual gamers) its pretty low anyway, factor in the small percentage of the population that's gay and its not that high a number, there's more gay male gamers so there's more coverage of it.

Then again it could be because homophobic towards men is a bigger issue in gaming then women as most racist, homophobic 14 year olds will think a lesbian is "hot" and just make many immature comments rather then insults.
 

Iskenator67

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cleverlymadeup said:
i'm going to have to say why does it matter? honestly not every group needs to be catered too just cause they want to be
That is where your wrong. In the US it is almost required by law to do that or else you are looking at a lawsuit. God this country is going down the shitter.
 

Sark

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You have to remember that these groups are minorities. Minorities should be represented as minorities, because they are. Complaining like this oddly reminds me of "reality" TV shows from a few years back where surprisingly enough, 1 out of 4 couples was gay or lesbian or whatever.

Anyways, most guys view "lesbians" as sex objects. These "lesbians" usually aren't gay, they are just attention seeking. I am talking about those girls who make out with each other for male attention or in porn. I know some real lesbians, and as a straight guy I can say I find nothing attractive in that.
 

Spitfire175

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cleverlymadeup said:
ryuutchi said:
cleverlymadeup said:
as for being "forced" to play a straight person, well the developers are NOT putting a gun to your head and saying "you must play this game" you can go play other games. you have that choice as a consumer.
WELL SHIVER ME TIMBERS, I HAVE A CHOICE? Oh yeah, my choice is "play as a straight person or don't play anything at all."
really cause EVERY game has a guy in it? sorry but no and most of the time they don't walk around with the neon sign saying "HEY EVERYBODY I'M STRAIGHT A STRAIGHT GUY AND I LOVE THE PUSSY"

the fact is that most of the time they do NOT even deal with the sexuality of the character in the game because frankly it doesn't matter

Triskadancer said:
Okay, I'll go play another game.

What games are there where I can play a respectable, not-slutty bisexual female?

...What's that? None? Oh look, to play videogames at all, I guess I DO have to play as a straight character.

EDIT: Obviously, I could play an MMO and design myself a gay female character, but the articles referenced are generally referring to single-player games, as is this topic. Just cutting off some arguments before they begin.
or conversely does it really matter? there's tons of games where the sexuality of the character isn't even brought up. i mean look at games like tombraider, the main character is female but what if you want to play the game as a male? you can't do that

both of you are trying to force on a choice that's not needed or frankly desired by 95% of the population and by most good estimates, the gay population is only 5% or so of the entire human population.

if you really want to make a change then do it yourself instead of complaining that someone else should do it and i suggest you start here [http://www.amazon.com/Art-Computer-Programming-Volumes-Boxed/dp/0201485419/]
Oh the sweet voice of reason. Thank you.
 

fletch_talon

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Personally I don't think homosexual women have it as bad as homosexual men.
I'm not saying there's a huge difference in how they are treated, but when people quote the bible to claim homosexuality as the worst thing evar, have you noticed its always:

"One man shall not lie with another as he would with a woman for that is abomination"[/paraphrase]

It just seems like the bible and therefore Christian's who take it by its word, only have something against male/male relationships.
 

random457376

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cleverlymadeup said:
if you really want to make a change then do it yourself instead of complaining that someone else should do it and i suggest you start here [http://www.amazon.com/Art-Computer-Programming-Volumes-Boxed/dp/0201485419/]
I think I'd like to reinforce this particular quote from cleverymadeup as Spitefire175 has already done. To be honest, I am absolutely astounded at the length to which this thread has driven without the following being addressed: an awful lot of articles on the Escapist are written by outside contributors on a pitch/submission basis, and this process can be looked up on the site.

Why is this relevant to the discussion? Simply because, while there may very well have been a chance for the Escapist to feature an article on this particular subset of homosexuality in female gamers, maybe there just weren't any good ones to pick from - or maybe there weren't any at all.

It would be an all together different situation to discuss if the Escapist had replied to a submission and outright refused portrayal due to the subject matter. I very much doubt this would occur however, as the Escapist has already proven itself open in a variety of topics (such as this very issue) and the fact there have been no righteous complaints on the forums from these hypothetical contributors. Such a tragedy would raise hell, and rightly so.

Possibly one of the most likely circumstances is that there simply was not an article written at all with this subset in mind. What is the reasoning? It happens. As one contributor stated earlier in this thread, and I am quoting loosely from memory, he didn't feel comfortable examining this angle due to not having any experience himself. Would you prefer that an article was featured on the subject but it was poorly written and did not represent the things you wanted put across?

There are people that do have the experience(they remain a literal minority), but are they also talented writers that can churn out material entertaining enough to make the main Escapist issues? No doubt these people exist, but are they also gamers and interested in investing time into something like this instead of putting brilliant skills like that into making money and campaigning for awareness in areas where it would do most good? How many of this particular subset are even aware of the Escapist's existence?

Not that I'm saying writing an article here would be a bad choice or wouldn't in any way help with general awareness in communities, just that it sounds a little unlikely given all the factors. Heck, maybe someone 'did' write an article but intends to submit it for a later issue? Or maybe someone with the capability and the experience simply didn't feel like writing one because they didn't personally see it working.

All of this (and quite a bit more) all makes for very unpredictable submissions, no doubt. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has also noticed that sometimes the articles are only vaguely related to the issue title. I wouldn't like to be the guy that sorts through all these and has to dash people's hopes or pick-and-choose who would feature from a selection of good-quality pieces. In short though, people will write what they want to and the Escapist will present what they wish to of it - you just have to have faith in them, and mine at least has been rewarded by enduring quality from update to update.

If you don't like it that way, the best way forward then, is to correct it yourself. Make a spectacularly composed article on this subject (and by the sounds of it you look to have more than enough motivation and experience), submit it to one of the relevant and upcoming issues, and make a difference for all the people that share the same views as you. You might be surprised. All I, and - by the looks of things - a few others know in this thread, is that complaining simply won't change anything about it. This pertains also to any other 'Why isn't 'XYZ' featured?' questions that may crop up. Nothing ever changed by ignoring it, but equally, nothing ever happened as a result without someone doing something about it.

Do yourself this favour and at least give it a try, or if you're not confident in your writing ability, practice to get better, or find someone that is and would be willing to do it in your place. Everyone, and not just this subset, could benefit from taking more action on their personal beliefs in such a constructive and useful medium as the Escapist presents us. Goodluck however you decide to proceed.





Regards,
MultiMasky
 

Iron Mal

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Of all the forms of media in our society, games are by far one of the ones tha require the least representation as far as sex, sexuality and most other groups of humanity go because (and here's the thing) we often aren't paying much attention to who is doing something as much as we observe what they're doing.

Take CoD4 for instance, for all we know the main protaganist is an outragously flamboyant homosexual man who just so happens to be in the SAS, he could also be a white supremisist, maybe even a Scientologist. Do you see what I'm trying to say here? Many games provide you with a 'universal' protaganist and skip character development in favor of getting straight into the action (those that don't often have a wide assortment of characters anyway or allow the player to create the characters themselves).
 

Iron Mal

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Sorry about the double post, my connection went funny and resent everything (no idea why).
 

Proteus214

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After seeing this thread a actually called up a friend of mine who happens to be a lesbian and an advocate for LGBT rights to get her take on lesbian appeal in games (she happens to be a pretty serious gamer too). She said that she was a little disappointed that there weren't any really prominent lesbian characters, but she said that if there were to ever be any created that it probably wouldn't feel natural. In other words she doesn't want them to be crowbarred in for the sake of being edgy. A good example of what she thinks is a more "natural" representation of female homosexuality in games would be the lesbian couple that ran the hostel in The Longest Journey. The characters were very natural, relatable, and likable.
 

tk1989

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Wasn't there an article about Zelda being a transexual? Isn't that enough? :p
 

Fire Daemon

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I would have enjoyed reading an article with a lesbian perspective or about female/female relationships in gaming, but the lack of an article doesn't phase me that much. I've been here for a while (but not that long) and even though I haven't read everyone article that comes around, I've seen some interesting ones. The Escapist has published articles about all sorts of things, from Yaoi to Adult video games on the Iphone. I'm sure that the Escapist had a good reason for not putting up an article based on Lesbians in games and gaming culture. Maybe no articles about Lesbians in games have been supplied? Maybe they aren't good enough? Maybe the Escapist has so many of them that they are saving them for their own issues? I don't know, although I would hedge my bets on the last one. I'd wager that the Escapist would want nothing more than a good piece about Lesbians/Women in gaming.

Edit: Looks like I was Ninja'd by MultiMasky who said what I just said, but much better with more detail an hours or so ago. I probably should type faster.

Cody211282 said:
Some of the best characters in gaming you have no idea what way they swing, Master Cheif sure hes a tough manly man, but maybe he is also into manly men, Samus shes a hardass but you have no idea what she does on R&R, Link I mean have you ever seen him once kiss Zelda and he hangs around with a fairy and a guy wearing a green onesy. I love all of these games and they characters hat make them what they are, but who cares if they are gay or not, female or male, hell if the gameplay and storyline are good enough I would play a nazi in a WW2 shooter(and noone likes them).
I feel the same about not caring which way a game character swings, although I do like to try and figure out the sexuality of most of characters. Just for kicks, I suppose. While I don't find it important to the character, it is kind of fun.

Master Chief would most likely be asexual. His mind would be designed purely for combating and as a human he probably hasn't matured past the age of six (the age when he was forced into the Spartan program). I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't love. Samus would most likely be Bisexual. I'm of the belief that when man kind is able to morph into balls, fight aliens and travel across the stars sexuality wouldn't matter. As 80% of the human population is in some varying scale of bisexuality, it wouldn't surprise me if she is bisexual. While there is a chance that she could be straight or gay, it seems unlikely. In the future, with sexuality not important, I would assume that anyone with a hint of bisexuality (a two on that scale thing) would be openly bisexual while in this day and age, they wont.

Link is interesting because in most games he is a child and a different character. I'm not entirely sure if you can determine the sexuality of a 10 year old, or possibly younger/older depending on how you age Link. So there are a lot of Link's when the sexuality is unknown. This is also the case in OoT because I believe that after the seven years spent sleeping, he still has the mind of a child. In Link 2 I believe you can actually have sex with Women. You go into their house with them and your hearts fill up. Maybe they just give a nonsexual massage, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure that he's sleeping with them. With others, there really is no way to tell. He's either a child or has no reaction to anyone. The only one which can really show you his sexuality is TP and maybe WW but I haven't played those games enough to be sure. It's a different Link in each game so you can't say if 'Link is gay/bi/straight' You have to say 'Link is gay/bi/straight in Wind Waker' etc.

When you look deep enough, you'll find that most characters don't have a sexuality. People assume that they must be straight because they are 'bad-ass' and that no teenage (or teenage minded fan) would want a gay hero so they must be straight, but this couldn't be further from the truth. Just because the core fanbase would be 'weirded out' by having a gay lead, does not make that lead straight. A lot of the time characters are characters without a sexuality.

Still, I feel like this is a discussion for another thread.
 

crypt-creature

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Emperor Inferno said:
'k, here's the thing

[HEADING=1]NOBODY CARES[/HEADING]

Nobody cares if a woman is a lesbian, cause, quite frankly, it's hot. But gay guys are gross, even to straight women.

Straight men love gay women

Straight women dont love gay men

At least this is the tally from people I've known.
Then you don't know that many people, or you really have no clue. Or, perhaps, your community is extremely homophobic and caters to the popular stereotype 'a woman is hot with another woman, gay or not. a man is not'.

By the way, people DO care. You just might not be one of them.
 

HentMas

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gay women????

i ussually see them as extreme sexists biased boecause of their experiences

but thats just me and how they treat men
 

Ares Tyr

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HentMas said:
gay women????

i ussually see them as extreme sexists biased boecause of their experiences

but thats just me and how they treat men
The four question marks really helped to illustrate your confusion.

My experience with gays and lesbians have always been good ones. My homosexual friends tend to be progressive minded and generally relaxed individuals, and I've never felt uncomfortable around either lesbians or gays.

I feel as though your opinion is based off of watching Fox News. Or maybe you're just making it up.
 

HentMas

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Ares Tyr said:
HentMas said:
gay women????

i ussually see them as extreme sexists biased boecause of their experiences

but thats just me and how they treat men
The four question marks really helped to illustrate your confusion.

My experience with gays and lesbians have always been good ones. My homosexual friends tend to be progressive minded and generally relaxed individuals, and I've never felt uncomfortable around either lesbians or gays.

I feel as though your opinion is based off of watching Fox News. Or maybe you're just making it up.
well... since i am from Mexico, Fox News is not a network i watch, but my view on gay women grew to that because most Lesbians here in my city treat and think of men as animal whose sole existence is an insult to them... but may be thats just in my city, i am aware not everyone is like that, i generalized and apologize for that. but still i was just stating what i thought about the issue, didn´t mean to be offensive (in retrospective i should have tried to be more specific)
 

Ares Tyr

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HentMas said:
Ares Tyr said:
HentMas said:
gay women????

i ussually see them as extreme sexists biased boecause of their experiences

but thats just me and how they treat men
The four question marks really helped to illustrate your confusion.

My experience with gays and lesbians have always been good ones. My homosexual friends tend to be progressive minded and generally relaxed individuals, and I've never felt uncomfortable around either lesbians or gays.

I feel as though your opinion is based off of watching Fox News. Or maybe you're just making it up.
well... since i am from Mexico, Fox News is not a network i watch, but my view on gay women grew to that because most Lesbians here in my city treat and think of men as animal whose sole existence is an insult to them... but may be thats just in my city, i am aware not everyone is like that, i generalized and apologize for that. but still i was just stating what i thought about the issue, didn´t mean to be offensive (in retrospective i should have tried to be more specific)
Its usually best not to think of people on terms of generalization when it comes to things such as race, ethnicity, gender, or orientation. A bitchy, mean straight person is just as likely and common as a bitchy, mean gay person. Its an individual. People aren't usually defined by those kind of characteristics.
 

cleverlymadeup

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MultiMasky said:
cleverlymadeup said:
if you really want to make a change then do it yourself instead of complaining that someone else should do it and i suggest you start here [http://www.amazon.com/Art-Computer-Programming-Volumes-Boxed/dp/0201485419/]
[snip]
well put the but the sad thing this advice, nor mine will be followed. it is a case of someone wanting to complain in order to hear their own voice. it's sad that when given the choice of making a change or getting someone else to do it, they always want someone else to do it.
 

Hamster at Dawn

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Stop acting like your sexual preference makes you superior. I don't give a shit what your sexuality is unless I want to know if you're flirting with me or not. We should all be trying to live together, not start wars. FYI, the articles are about LGBT. Check it. They use that specific acronym. Any idea what that stands for?