What do DC fans like about DC?

[bastardofmelbourne]

Kraven's Last Hunt; God Loves, Man Kills; Born Again; Marvels; Dark Phoenix Saga; Demon in a Bottle; Panther's Rage; Age of Apocalypse; Coming of Galactus; and on and on and on. Just because you haven't bothered to read them doesn't mean they don't exist. You make it very obvious from what you are saying that you have spent no time reading Marvel. You prefer DC, then prefer DC, but saying "All they have are people in spandex having adventures each week" is just laughably wrong.

With the exception of Born Again, none of those titles you quoted are anywhere near the quality level of Watchmen. Dark Phoenix Saga and Demon in a Bottle were big shake-up story-changer arcs, but they weren't exactly New York Times bestseller material. Claremont's run on X-Men is famous, influential, and certainly entertaining, but a lot of it was soap-opera level plot shenanigans.

Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't mention Nextwave, considering that it is hands-down the best comic ever written or conceived of.

Edit:

With this logic about the DC Universe, does that mean this is the reason most readers love Batman the most? Because it is the human among the Gods who can stand beside them equally in DC? Make sense to me really.

I'd say that is both the reason he has engendered so much love, as well as the reason for much of the backlash against him over the last few decades. He started out as the best of humanity, but also as a symbol that was able to stand alongside those gods. Over the past while however he has pretty much become deus ex batmana. He can beat anyone and anything based on the fact that he's the motherf'ing Batman, and he has pretty much gained the superpower of never being able to lose.

This is both the best and the worst part about Batman as a character. He's Batman, which is why he can rub shoulders with flying aliens, space cops, and a mythological Amazon warrior-princess. But if the resolution to every plot dilemma becomes "he's Batman," you're just writing about a more meta-aware version of Superman.

One of the things I love about Batman: Earth-One is that it portrays a Batman who is, in actual fact, a total rookie who's in way over his head. His grappling gun doesn't work. He fumbles jumps. He has a random sedan as his Batmobile. He's clever, but he doesn't know anything about forensic science or criminology. He's buff and he knows how to box, but he's not a ninja. The great part about that comic, and the reason it interests me so much, is that it shows Batman overcoming these basic, realistic limitations and improving, rather than simply starting his career at the top of his game.

When he finally outsmarts the Riddler at the end of the second volume, it felt more like Batman than any Batman comic I've read in the last decade.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?

I know Marvel does it plenty too (Daredevil Season 2 is a prime example), but ugh, that clip is one of the few major flaws with Batman I have. Up until Jason Todd shot at Batman instead of actually killing Joker, he is basically saying my opinion verbatim. (Also Zsasz, fuck that guy) I know I'm kind of sidetracking my own topic, but it seriously bugs me to no end.

Ohhhhh but thats what makes it sooooo good!

We all know on some level, Jason Todd is right. Fuck the joker, ya know?

But he's not realizing that the line of difference between Batman and Joker is really razor thin. If Batman kills Joker? He will kill TwoFace. And penguin. And Riddler. And anyone else that hurts the innocent.

I've always hated this argument, because... well, it means the Joker's right. He wins.

Spoiler

Joker IS right. So is Agent Smith here...


I mean I'm going to sound like two face here, but the only difference between the rest of us and bad guys is choice and resolve. How we choose to react to negative things. How we choose to act to the very absurdity of our existence.

Batman IS the other side of that giant fucking penny to Joker. He had his bad day and just went to the opposite extreme.

But I suppose... that's the point, you keep fighting. You keep trying to make the world better even though it never will be, ya gotta try anyway.

 

[Saelune]

I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?

I know Marvel does it plenty too (Daredevil Season 2 is a prime example), but ugh, that clip is one of the few major flaws with Batman I have. Up until Jason Todd shot at Batman instead of actually killing Joker, he is basically saying my opinion verbatim. (Also Zsasz, fuck that guy) I know I'm kind of sidetracking my own topic, but it seriously bugs me to no end.

Ohhhhh but thats what makes it sooooo good!

We all know on some level, Jason Todd is right. Fuck the joker, ya know?

But he's not realizing that the line of difference between Batman and Joker is really razor thin. If Batman kills Joker? He will kill TwoFace. And penguin. And Riddler. And anyone else that hurts the innocent.

I've always hated this argument, because... well, it means the Joker's right. He wins.

Spoiler

Joker IS right. So is Agent Smith here...


I mean I'm going to sound like two face here, but the only difference between the rest of us and bad guys is choice and resolve. How we choose to react to negative things. How we choose to act to the very absurdity of our existence.

Batman IS the other side of that giant fucking penny to Joker. He had his bad day and just went to the opposite extreme.

But I suppose... that's the point, you keep fighting. You keep trying to make the world better even though it never will be, ya gotta try anyway.

Theres a difference between killing innocent people who don't murder innocent people, and killing serial killers.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?

I know Marvel does it plenty too (Daredevil Season 2 is a prime example), but ugh, that clip is one of the few major flaws with Batman I have. Up until Jason Todd shot at Batman instead of actually killing Joker, he is basically saying my opinion verbatim. (Also Zsasz, fuck that guy) I know I'm kind of sidetracking my own topic, but it seriously bugs me to no end.

Ohhhhh but thats what makes it sooooo good!

We all know on some level, Jason Todd is right. Fuck the joker, ya know?

But he's not realizing that the line of difference between Batman and Joker is really razor thin. If Batman kills Joker? He will kill TwoFace. And penguin. And Riddler. And anyone else that hurts the innocent.

I've always hated this argument, because... well, it means the Joker's right. He wins.

Spoiler

Joker IS right. So is Agent Smith here...


I mean I'm going to sound like two face here, but the only difference between the rest of us and bad guys is choice and resolve. How we choose to react to negative things. How we choose to act to the very absurdity of our existence.

Batman IS the other side of that giant fucking penny to Joker. He had his bad day and just went to the opposite extreme.

But I suppose... that's the point, you keep fighting. You keep trying to make the world better even though it never will be, ya gotta try anyway.

Theres a difference between killing innocent people who don't murder innocent people, and killing serial killers.

That's part of why I really hate the serial killer Joker that's been around for a while. Him being this mass-murderer raises a lot of questions about Batman's morals that don't have satisfying answers, and it's just boring. Joker is more interesting when he's a thief who doesn't care about a body count, whose love of theatrics and guessing games run Batman ragged. He's not just a creepy guy in clown make-up shanking people for no reason. That's not a comic book villain, that's just a murderer.

 

[Overhead]

I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Just think about what a Batman comic done by Marvel would be like. It be a lot more focusing on his broken personal life and his personal journey towards finally getting over his parents death and hanging the cowl up before some punk with a gun gets in that one lucky shot we know will happen one day and kill him.

Now that's fine in it's own right, but thats not what I want from my super heroes. ya know how people ***** Batman is basically overpowered in his own right and basically always saves the day with some kind of ass-pull?


Well that's what I like. None of this shit is remotely real anyway, but let me indulge in a fantasy where somehow... the good guy wins, ya know?

I know Marvel does it plenty too (Daredevil Season 2 is a prime example), but ugh, that clip is one of the few major flaws with Batman I have. Up until Jason Todd shot at Batman instead of actually killing Joker, he is basically saying my opinion verbatim. (Also Zsasz, fuck that guy) I know I'm kind of sidetracking my own topic, but it seriously bugs me to no end.

Ohhhhh but thats what makes it sooooo good!

We all know on some level, Jason Todd is right. Fuck the joker, ya know?

But he's not realizing that the line of difference between Batman and Joker is really razor thin. If Batman kills Joker? He will kill TwoFace. And penguin. And Riddler. And anyone else that hurts the innocent.

I've always hated this argument, because... well, it means the Joker's right. He wins.

Spoiler

Joker IS right. So is Agent Smith here...


I mean I'm going to sound like two face here, but the only difference between the rest of us and bad guys is choice and resolve. How we choose to react to negative things. How we choose to act to the very absurdity of our existence.

Batman IS the other side of that giant fucking penny to Joker. He had his bad day and just went to the opposite extreme.

But I suppose... that's the point, you keep fighting. You keep trying to make the world better even though it never will be, ya gotta try anyway.

Theres a difference between killing innocent people who don't murder innocent people, and killing serial killers.

That's part of why I really hate the serial killer Joker that's been around for a while. Him being this mass-murderer raises a lot of questions about Batman's morals that don't have satisfying answers, and it's just boring. Joker is more interesting when he's a thief who doesn't care about a body count, whose love of theatrics and guessing games run Batman ragged. He's not just a creepy guy in clown make-up shanking people for no reason. That's not a comic book villain, that's just a murderer.

Not really. Batman has beaten up and arrested the joker like a bajillion times. If the government decides not to instantly execute him, that's on the governor/legislature/president/whomever for not instituting a "Holy shit, let's ignore due process and kill this guy ASAP" law/constitutional amendment.

It isn't up to Batman to decide if Joker lives or dies.

 

[rosac]

That was Kill Bill, and it was wrong. Bill in it states that Clark is Superman's critique on the entire human race: "He's weak. He's bumbling. He's a coward". But no. That's who Clark is. That's one of the things I love about Superman: just shy of a god, but he's probably the most human of all the DC heroes. No kidding, I still well up a bit whenever I read "All Star Superman" and get to the jumper chapter.

Favourite superman moment ever!

I read batman/superman for a while before I missed one issue and therefore a crucial part of the story. As people have mentioned, they go about their superheroes differently to marvel- they're god like beings first and foremost and humans after. This is apparent in almost all their characters, with the only exception I can really think of off the top of my head being the flash occasionally struggling to keep his 2 "jobs" balanced. Batman takes priority over bruce wayne stuff, Superman stuff takes priority over clark kent stuff.

Also, the DC Universe, for better or worse, has a very strong look at familial ties compared to marvel. The Shazam and Black Adam families, Superman/Supergirl, Batman/Huntress etc. etc.

 

[Adaephon]

I think everything I love about DC can be seen in the weekly series Trinity that ran 2008-2009. It may not have been the best written story they ever did (although I would argue that it is up there with the greats) and it certainly wasn't the best drawn but it captured what their best elements were perfectly, and I can't imagine any other group besides DC making something quite like it.

First of all it had great characters who were not god-level powerful. A major part of the plot centered around two relatively normal people, Jose Delgado (Gangbuster) and Rita Covas (Tarot) who were well developed and felt awesome and likeable. Their actions and how they talked to super people like Hawkman felt believable and actually carried dramatic weight and helped with real character arcs and growth.

A problem I've always had with Marvel is that normal people always come across like huge dicks to everyone. They attack superheroes, they blindly panic and get easily manipulated by baddies, and they pretty much exist only to either die in collateral damage or to yell at Spiderman after he pulled their idiot butts out of flaming wreckage. DC on the other hand makes its civilians (sometimes anyways) act more like real people who, while scared and angry and confused, realize what a super villain is and that they should do what the disaster relief type heroes are telling them. This is shown further when the story starts examining the psychology behind Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman with how they inspire normal people in different ways. Superman protects us so that we can strive to be better, Batman scares us so that we don't go bad and so that those who do go bad are punished, and Wonder Woman inspires us to become better so that we can help ourselves when she is too busy to save us.

There is a great deal of mythology behind the whole story with big emphasis on the Tarot deck and what each arcana can mean in different ways. Its a little pretentious and delves into some pseudo-philosophical bullshit sometimes but personally I love that kind of overstuffed mythos, probably why I also liked reading the Silmarillion or watching the first Matrix sequel. All the stuff about the world-spirits and magic rituals to realign the tarot deck to rebuild the earth are kinda dumb, sure, but when you're reading it it all just feels... deep. It's immersive is what I'm trying to say I guess.

And finally it makes the superheroes feel like heroes while also feeling like I can relate to them. A major plot point is that the Trinity, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, have become literal Gods to a race of aliens. And yet despite literally being larger-than-life Gods with the powers and responsibilities therein, they still felt a little bit human and I loved that. The whole piece of the story that took place on the alien world with all the priests and worshipers retelling the DC backstory was simply beautiful, and probably some of the best comic book story telling I've ever seen.

There's a lot more than just that to like about DC in general, but I think Trinity sums up some of their best attributes so succinctly that it's just damn near perfect, which is why I love (or loved anyways) DC's comics.

 

[Vausch]

I think everything I love about DC can be seen in the weekly series Trinity that ran 2008-2009. It may not have been the best written story they ever did (although I would argue that it is up there with the greats) and it certainly wasn't the best drawn but it captured what their best elements were perfectly, and I can't imagine any other group besides DC making something quite like it.

First of all it had great characters who were not god-level powerful. A major part of the plot centered around two relatively normal people, Jose Delgado (Gangbuster) and Rita Covas (Tarot) who were well developed and felt awesome and likeable. Their actions and how they talked to super people like Hawkman felt believable and actually carried dramatic weight and helped with real character arcs and growth.

A problem I've always had with Marvel is that normal people always come across like huge dicks to everyone. They attack superheroes, they blindly panic and get easily manipulated by baddies, and they pretty much exist only to either die in collateral damage or to yell at Spiderman after he pulled their idiot butts out of flaming wreckage. DC on the other hand makes its civilians (sometimes anyways) act more like real people who, while scared and angry and confused, realize what a super villain is and that they should do what the disaster relief type heroes are telling them. This is shown further when the story starts examining the psychology behind Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman with how they inspire normal people in different ways. Superman protects us so that we can strive to be better, Batman scares us so that we don't go bad and so that those who do go bad are punished, and Wonder Woman inspires us to become better so that we can help ourselves when she is too busy to save us.

There is a great deal of mythology behind the whole story with big emphasis on the Tarot deck and what each arcana can mean in different ways. Its a little pretentious and delves into some pseudo-philosophical bullshit sometimes but personally I love that kind of overstuffed mythos, probably why I also liked reading the Silmarillion or watching the first Matrix sequel. All the stuff about the world-spirits and magic rituals to realign the tarot deck to rebuild the earth are kinda dumb, sure, but when you're reading it it all just feels... deep. It's immersive is what I'm trying to say I guess.

And finally it makes the superheroes feel like heroes while also feeling like I can relate to them. A major plot point is that the Trinity, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, have become literal Gods to a race of aliens. And yet despite literally being larger-than-life Gods with the powers and responsibilities therein, they still felt a little bit human and I loved that. The whole piece of the story that took place on the alien world with all the priests and worshipers retelling the DC backstory was simply beautiful, and probably some of the best comic book story telling I've ever seen.

There's a lot more than just that to like about DC in general, but I think Trinity sums up some of their best attributes so succinctly that it's just damn near perfect, which is why I love (or loved anyways) DC's comics.

What you said about DC and Marvel's civilian ideologies was something my friend and I discussed at one point. We imagined what would happen if all of Marvel and DC's heroes (and villains, maybe) just popped into each others universes entirely. We couldn't help but imagine the mutants suddenly realising people aren't afraid of them and are generally accepting of the concepts and Superman being feared for being an alien.

The funnier one was Magneto. We couldn't help but imagine him having a bit of an existential breakdown if he suddenly realised his views of mutant superiority or fights to be treated as a person rather than a mutant suddenly were just accepted. Civilians going "Woah, you can control metal?! That's so cool! Can I get a picture?"

 

[Adaephon]

I think everything I love about DC can be seen in the weekly series Trinity that ran 2008-2009. It may not have been the best written story they ever did (although I would argue that it is up there with the greats) and it certainly wasn't the best drawn but it captured what their best elements were perfectly, and I can't imagine any other group besides DC making something quite like it.

First of all it had great characters who were not god-level powerful. A major part of the plot centered around two relatively normal people, Jose Delgado (Gangbuster) and Rita Covas (Tarot) who were well developed and felt awesome and likeable. Their actions and how they talked to super people like Hawkman felt believable and actually carried dramatic weight and helped with real character arcs and growth.

A problem I've always had with Marvel is that normal people always come across like huge dicks to everyone. They attack superheroes, they blindly panic and get easily manipulated by baddies, and they pretty much exist only to either die in collateral damage or to yell at Spiderman after he pulled their idiot butts out of flaming wreckage. DC on the other hand makes its civilians (sometimes anyways) act more like real people who, while scared and angry and confused, realize what a super villain is and that they should do what the disaster relief type heroes are telling them. This is shown further when the story starts examining the psychology behind Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman with how they inspire normal people in different ways. Superman protects us so that we can strive to be better, Batman scares us so that we don't go bad and so that those who do go bad are punished, and Wonder Woman inspires us to become better so that we can help ourselves when she is too busy to save us.

There is a great deal of mythology behind the whole story with big emphasis on the Tarot deck and what each arcana can mean in different ways. Its a little pretentious and delves into some pseudo-philosophical bullshit sometimes but personally I love that kind of overstuffed mythos, probably why I also liked reading the Silmarillion or watching the first Matrix sequel. All the stuff about the world-spirits and magic rituals to realign the tarot deck to rebuild the earth are kinda dumb, sure, but when you're reading it it all just feels... deep. It's immersive is what I'm trying to say I guess.

And finally it makes the superheroes feel like heroes while also feeling like I can relate to them. A major plot point is that the Trinity, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, have become literal Gods to a race of aliens. And yet despite literally being larger-than-life Gods with the powers and responsibilities therein, they still felt a little bit human and I loved that. The whole piece of the story that took place on the alien world with all the priests and worshipers retelling the DC backstory was simply beautiful, and probably some of the best comic book story telling I've ever seen.

There's a lot more than just that to like about DC in general, but I think Trinity sums up some of their best attributes so succinctly that it's just damn near perfect, which is why I love (or loved anyways) DC's comics.

What you said about DC and Marvel's civilian ideologies was something my friend and I discussed at one point. We imagined what would happen if all of Marvel and DC's heroes (and villains, maybe) just popped into each others universes entirely. We couldn't help but imagine the mutants suddenly realising people aren't afraid of them and are generally accepting of the concepts and Superman being feared for being an alien.

The funnier one was Magneto. We couldn't help but imagine him having a bit of an existential breakdown if he suddenly realised his views of mutant superiority or fights to be treated as a person rather than a mutant suddenly were just accepted. Civilians going "Woah, you can control metal?! That's so cool! Can I get a picture?"

I don't know if you ever read it, but the JLA vs. the Avengers crossover between Marvel and DC did something like that. Basically the Avengers materialize in Metropolis and save everyone and get mobbed by civilians, then when they're discussing how to escape, the civvies just start asking for autographs and talking about how cool their costumes are. It's pretty sweet to see Captain America and Iron Man just looking dumbfounded that they would actually be treated like heroes. And even better, the Flash gets bricks thrown at his face for trying to stop a mutant lynch mob and going like "Dude! I'm a good guy, what the hell?"

 

[Saelune]

A problem I've always had with Marvel is that normal people always come across like huge dicks to everyone. They attack superheroes, they blindly panic and get easily manipulated by baddies, and they pretty much exist only to either die in collateral damage or to yell at Spiderman after he pulled their idiot butts out of flaming wreckage. DC on the other hand makes its civilians (sometimes anyways) act more like real people who, while scared and angry and confused, realize what a super villain is and that they should do what the disaster relief type heroes are telling them. This is shown further when the story starts examining the psychology behind Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman with how they inspire normal people in different ways. Superman protects us so that we can strive to be better, Batman scares us so that we don't go bad and so that those who do go bad are punished, and Wonder Woman inspires us to become better so that we can help ourselves when she is too busy to save us.

Have you checked out our Religion and Politics forum? Marvel might be a more realistic depiction. Plus a surprising number of people siding with Iron Man from the Civil War movie.

 

[Adaephon]

A problem I've always had with Marvel is that normal people always come across like huge dicks to everyone. They attack superheroes, they blindly panic and get easily manipulated by baddies, and they pretty much exist only to either die in collateral damage or to yell at Spiderman after he pulled their idiot butts out of flaming wreckage. DC on the other hand makes its civilians (sometimes anyways) act more like real people who, while scared and angry and confused, realize what a super villain is and that they should do what the disaster relief type heroes are telling them. This is shown further when the story starts examining the psychology behind Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman with how they inspire normal people in different ways. Superman protects us so that we can strive to be better, Batman scares us so that we don't go bad and so that those who do go bad are punished, and Wonder Woman inspires us to become better so that we can help ourselves when she is too busy to save us.

Have you checked out our Religion and Politics forum? Marvel might be a more realistic depiction. Plus a surprising number of people siding with Iron Man from the Civil War movie.

Well the way I see it is that while the Marvel way is probably how most people would react to a superhero the first couple of times they saw them, in a universe where Superman pulls your cat out of a tree five times a week people would be able to realize what a proper procedure for a major incident would be. For example, where I live there are a lot of forest fires and, yeah, the first time you see one you freak out but now its like most people barely even notice them since we know how and when to pack up and evacuate when the firefighters tell us to.

As for people following Iron Man, well I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't more to do with people just liking Robert Downey Junior and just following bad ideas because they hear it in a charismatic way. Personally I never liked him so I won't even give him the benefit of the doubt with his whole kid dies = superheroes must become useless government puppets schtick. Or just another classic internet attempt at counter-culture by loudly opposing what everyone else supports.

 

[Saelune]

A problem I've always had with Marvel is that normal people always come across like huge dicks to everyone. They attack superheroes, they blindly panic and get easily manipulated by baddies, and they pretty much exist only to either die in collateral damage or to yell at Spiderman after he pulled their idiot butts out of flaming wreckage. DC on the other hand makes its civilians (sometimes anyways) act more like real people who, while scared and angry and confused, realize what a super villain is and that they should do what the disaster relief type heroes are telling them. This is shown further when the story starts examining the psychology behind Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman with how they inspire normal people in different ways. Superman protects us so that we can strive to be better, Batman scares us so that we don't go bad and so that those who do go bad are punished, and Wonder Woman inspires us to become better so that we can help ourselves when she is too busy to save us.

Have you checked out our Religion and Politics forum? Marvel might be a more realistic depiction. Plus a surprising number of people siding with Iron Man from the Civil War movie.

Well the way I see it is that while the Marvel way is probably how most people would react to a superhero the first couple of times they saw them, in a universe where Superman pulls your cat out of a tree five times a week people would be able to realize what a proper procedure for a major incident would be. For example, where I live there are a lot of forest fires and, yeah, the first time you see one you freak out but now its like most people barely even notice them since we know how and when to pack up and evacuate when the firefighters tell us to.

As for people following Iron Man, well I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't more to do with people just liking Robert Downey Junior and just following bad ideas because they hear it in a charismatic way. Personally I never liked him so I won't even give him the benefit of the doubt with his whole kid dies = superheroes must become useless government puppets schtick. Or just another classic internet attempt at counter-culture by loudly opposing what everyone else supports.

A lot of people seemed to genuinely support his ideas, and I don't think he was very "charismatic" in the film. I like him as Iron Man/Tony Stark, but that's because he makes him seem like such a shit bag at times.

Its hard to really know how the world would actually react to super people, since they don't exist. Obviously there would be tons of people against them, but its hard to know if they would be a tiny minority, or a majority, or whatever.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

I doubt I'm the typical fan here, but I've seen a lot of LGBT characters fairy prominent in DC vs who now in Marvel?

Secret Six might not be well known but they're assuredly one of my favorite teams in Comics. A group of anti-villains trying to do right by each other. Several Lesbians, and a gender fluid to say the least.

Can't forget Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy who so far have probably been in the longest running not straight relationship in comic book history. >.> Probably because they're not trying to get married, or something like that.
It doesn't hurt that they teamed with Catwoman for the Gotham City Sirens run. The fact that they're typically villains yet try to get out of being villains, and show depth of character beyond most villains who're only there to cause trouble is extremely refreshing.

I've enjoyed many appearances of Power girl. Yeah, she has the figure, but she's kinda more relate-able than superman, or supergirl.

Justice League International was a fun series. It helped along in my fandom of Fire and Ice.

It just seems like DC has more off the wall characters that don't always play serious, or straight.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I just like DC stories better. Marvel always came across as too facetious for my taste.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

Can't forget Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy who so far have probably been in the longest running not straight relationship in comic book history. >.>

Pretty sure that isn't canon. Just shipping by Bruce Timm that people liked.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Can't forget Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy who so far have probably been in the longest running not straight relationship in comic book history. >.>

Pretty sure that isn't canon. Just shipping by Bruce Timm that people liked.

http://www.hitfix.com/harpy/creators-confirm-harley-quinn-and-poison-ivy-are-definitely-hooking-up

Seems pretty legit to me, playing into Harley's most recent exploits. It's hardly traditional, but it's there, and I appreciate it thoroughly.

 

[mduncan50]

I doubt I'm the typical fan here, but I've seen a lot of LGBT characters fairy prominent in DC vs who now in Marvel?

Secret Six might not be well known but they're assuredly one of my favorite teams in Comics. A group of anti-villains trying to do right by each other. Several Lesbians, and a gender fluid to say the least.

Can't forget Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy who so far have probably been in the longest running not straight relationship in comic book history. >.> Probably because they're not trying to get married, or something like that.
It doesn't hurt that they teamed with Catwoman for the Gotham City Sirens run. The fact that they're typically villains yet try to get out of being villains, and show depth of character beyond most villains who're only there to cause trouble is extremely refreshing.

I've enjoyed many appearances of Power girl. Yeah, she has the figure, but she's kinda more relate-able than superman, or supergirl.

Justice League International was a fun series. It helped along in my fandom of Fire and Ice.

It just seems like DC has more off the wall characters that don't always play serious, or straight.

GAY
Iceman
Northstar
Wiccan
Hulkling
Angela
Karma
Anole
Lucy in the Sky
Rictor
Stryker
Morph
Pod
Graymalkin
Martyr
Victoria Hand
Superia
Union Jack
Bling!
Bloodstone
Destroyer
The current Giant Man
Many more

BISEXUAL
Psylocke
Mystique
Daken
Hercules
Loki
Destiny
Electro
Moondragon
Prodigy
Ripcord
Cluster
Doop
Harpy
Yukio
Skein
Swamp Queen
Telekinian
Spymaster
Sugar Kane

PANSEXUAL
Deadpool
Loop
Lightspeed

TRANSGENDERED
Sera
Jessie Drake
Tong
Karolina Dean

For the sake of briefness I only listed about a third of the gay characters, and limited the lists to the main 616 universe.

 

[Jute88]

I suppose DC is just better wishfullfillment to me.

Spoiler

Theres a difference between killing innocent people who don't murder innocent people, and killing serial killers.

That's part of why I really hate the serial killer Joker that's been around for a while. Him being this mass-murderer raises a lot of questions about Batman's morals that don't have satisfying answers, and it's just boring. Joker is more interesting when he's a thief who doesn't care about a body count, whose love of theatrics and guessing games run Batman ragged. He's not just a creepy guy in clown make-up shanking people for no reason. That's not a comic book villain, that's just a murderer.

Have you seen the movie Batman: The Dark Knight Returns part 2? It has easily one of the most boring version of Joker. After Part 1 I was really interested to see what would Joker be like this time, but all he does is kill people, hell, he barely makes any jokes.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

I doubt I'm the typical fan here, but I've seen a lot of LGBT characters fairy prominent in DC vs who now in Marvel?

Secret Six might not be well known but they're assuredly one of my favorite teams in Comics. A group of anti-villains trying to do right by each other. Several Lesbians, and a gender fluid to say the least.

Can't forget Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy who so far have probably been in the longest running not straight relationship in comic book history. >.> Probably because they're not trying to get married, or something like that.
It doesn't hurt that they teamed with Catwoman for the Gotham City Sirens run. The fact that they're typically villains yet try to get out of being villains, and show depth of character beyond most villains who're only there to cause trouble is extremely refreshing.

I've enjoyed many appearances of Power girl. Yeah, she has the figure, but she's kinda more relate-able than superman, or supergirl.

Justice League International was a fun series. It helped along in my fandom of Fire and Ice.

It just seems like DC has more off the wall characters that don't always play serious, or straight.

GAY
Iceman
Northstar
Wiccan
Hulkling
Angela
Karma
Anole
Lucy in the Sky
Rictor
Stryker
Morph
Pod
Graymalkin
Martyr
Victoria Hand
Superia
Union Jack
Bling!
Bloodstone
Destroyer
The current Giant Man
Many more

BISEXUAL
Psylocke
Mystique
Daken
Hercules
Loki
Destiny
Electro
Moondragon
Prodigy
Ripcord
Cluster
Doop
Harpy
Yukio
Skein
Swamp Queen
Telekinian
Spymaster
Sugar Kane

PANSEXUAL
Deadpool
Loop
Lightspeed

TRANSGENDERED
Sera
Jessie Drake
Tong
Karolina Dean

For the sake of briefness I only listed about a third of the gay characters, and limited the lists to the main 616 universe.

You'll have to pardon me for moving the goalposts (as I'm no doubt going to be accused of)/clarifying my "who now?" question.
How much of that list has been used much, or recently? When was the last time they had a major appearance where their relationship mattered at all as opposed to dropped, and forgotten about?

I practically forgot Deadpool was pansexual as he married a female demon (I guess that counts?), and had many relationships with women, as well as death who represented herself as a woman (does that count, too?).

Psylocke was in the recent xmen movie, sure, but I doubt she had any relationships, and I'm wondering when the last time she did in a comic.

Iceman writers have probably swept him coming out under the rug by now? I think he was a spurt of marvel being interested in being inclusive for all of a few issues while DC seems to stick with it a bit more.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not rich enough, or have enough free time to read up on every comic. I don't know it all.

It's nice that characters come out, and all, but if people can quickly forget about the character and/or their relationship interests what's the point? If they don't live the life, so to speak, then it doesn't do much for representation, IMO. Sure Deadpool is pansexual, but if that never comes up again, the argument kinda weakens. Sure Mystique had one lesbian relationship that I know of, but has he had any more relationships that weren't straight?
How many of those characters have been deemed unusable for some reason and thus haven't made any major appearances for years, or decades?
I know I'm splitting hairs, or something like that, but a long list of characters doesn't mean as much if they never get utilized, and/or if they never exhibit relationships other than straight ever again, then it... what's the way I'm looking to put this?
It loses momentum, and impact. It's not much of any representation if examples are so easily forgotten.

I probably worded it pretty clumsily.

 

[mduncan50]

You'll have to pardon me for moving the goalposts (as I'm no doubt going to be accused of)/clarifying my "who now?" question.
How much of that list has been used much, or recently? When was the last time they had a major appearance where their relationship mattered at all as opposed to dropped, and forgotten about?

I practically forgot Deadpool was pansexual as he married a female demon (I guess that counts?), and had many relationships with women, as well as death who represented herself as a woman (does that count, too?).

Psylocke was in the recent xmen movie, sure, but I doubt she had any relationships, and I'm wondering when the last time she did in a comic.

Iceman writers have probably swept him coming out under the rug by now? I think he was a spurt of marvel being interested in being inclusive for all of a few issues while DC seems to stick with it a bit more.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not rich enough, or have enough free time to read up on every comic. I don't know it all.

It's nice that characters come out, and all, but if people can quickly forget about the character and/or their relationship interests what's the point? If they don't live the life, so to speak, then it doesn't do much for representation, IMO. Sure Deadpool is pansexual, but if that never comes up again, the argument kinda weakens. Sure Mystique had one lesbian relationship that I know of, but has he had any more relationships that weren't straight?
How many of those characters have been deemed unusable for some reason and thus haven't made any major appearances for years, or decades?
I know I'm splitting hairs, or something like that, but a long list of characters doesn't mean as much if they never get utilized, and/or if they never exhibit relationships other than straight ever again, then it... what's the way I'm looking to put this?
It loses momentum, and impact. It's not much of any representation if examples are so easily forgotten.

I probably worded it pretty clumsily.

No, they are all out and they are as "gay" as any other character is "straight". Iceman's only been "out" for about half a year, so I don't think they've actually hooked him up with someone just for the sake of it, just yet. Northstar was one of the first openly gay superheros, the leader of Alpha Flight (Canadian Avengers/X-Men basically) and got married in 2012, and it was not something Marvel simply paid lip service to:

Wiccan and Hulkling are members of the Young Avengers and engaged to be married.

Mystique and Destiny first became lovers in the 1920s, were first shown as lovers in a 1982 comic and were publicly outed in 1990 and were actually living together while raising Rogue.

Daken, who is Wolverine's son is very open about his bisexuality and it is extremely common to see him hitting on both male and female supers.

And on and on.