What is being homophobic?

[m19]

I don't have a problem with gays being gays or getting married. But I do feel a gag reflex upon witnessing men kissing and turn away in disgust.

If that's technically homophobia I see nothing wrong with it. I cringe at many things heterosexual couples do. I don't tell any of them how to live their lives or curse at them for being who they are. But certain things I just do not wish to witness.

 

[generals3]

Maybe we do have a communication issue haha. I was going by what the OP said where he said basic displays of affection between two guys bothered him. Check his post. He said holding hands bothered him into basically having convulsions. And basic kissing he couldn't handle at all. Even the inference of it he can't seemingly handle.

Now, if we were talking about deep kissing, that's sexual. That's understandable, you wouldn't want to see two guys deep kissing because you wouldn't personally want to see two guys tearing into each other. Your mind will undoutedly go to sex because deep kissing is an aggressive act. It's a lustful act. I don't want to see two women deep kissing, I don't find it disgusting. But I don't want to see it. That's more of a sexuality thing, than a taste thing.

I'm not one of those anti-PDA types but deep kissing of any kind bothers me in public because it's inconsiderate and rude. But a couple of any gender combination showing some affection that doesn't cross the proverbial line of respect shouldn't be classified as disgusting for expressing their love for one another.

I see it now. My mind was actually focused on the OP's first paragraph (it's almost as if the second one went straight out of my brain). And it's also probably because here when people say "we kissed" it implies tongue and everything. (Considering I speak french the whole "frenching" expression isn't used at all, the definition of kissing is based on the context and in "romantic" contexts it usually equates to frenching)

 

[101flyboy]

Projective disgust, boys and girls, in a nutshell.

Alright I read most of your posts and I understand what you're saying but honestly if you want people to see your point of view you need to stop being so hostile. [/protip]

I'm not really trying to be hostile. At all. Especially the last couple pages, I haven't found anything to be hostile about. I don't get hostile over internet messages, I'm forceful but I'm not angry or anything. If I'm angry I'd turn to insults In this case I'm just stating a position in a powerful way, it's how I debate. I hate lecturing people because I hate being lectured so I make strong points and allow people to respond in turn. I don't want to treat people like children who can't make a point themselves unless I approve it and have them walking on eggshells, or have to spoonfed my points to people.

 

[Jenvas1306]

You're not a homophobic. I get the same feeling when I see 2 men kissing to, I also get the same feeling when I see my parents kiss as well doesn't mean anything.

You indirectly just compared homosexuality to incest.

Jeez. No. Just no.

He is comparing his attraction to men as being about the same as his attraction his parents. And since both cases are uncomfortable because of a lack of attraction, it's a pretty okay analogy.
It would also work with any other individuals he's completely unattracted to, but since everyone is attracted to different things it could be confusing, and since it may involve pointing out a certain group of individuals it could be offensive. Parents are unoffensive and none-confusing. It's a good analogy.

I can't believe I just typed that post explaining how he is NOT comparing homosexuality to incest.

we should allways ask why, thats a fundamental part of being human in my opinion. Incest has its social stigma as to the consequences, it could lead to offspring with disabilities due to the lack of two different sets of chromosomes. Therfor it has an actual reason.

How is that for homosexual couples? Do they risk to make anyone suffer or limit someones abilities in life? They just can not easily procreate.

So comparing both seems like you think homosexuality would have a potential for such negative consequences, aka it being bad and unhealthy.

 

[101flyboy]

You're not a homophobic. I get the same feeling when I see 2 men kissing to, I also get the same feeling when I see my parents kiss as well doesn't mean anything.

You indirectly just compared homosexuality to incest.

Jeez. No. Just no.

He is comparing his attraction to men as being about the same as his attraction his parents. And since both cases are uncomfortable because of a lack of attraction, it's a pretty okay analogy.
It would also work with any other individuals he's completely unattracted to, but since everyone is attracted to different things it could be confusing, and since it may involve pointing out a certain group of individuals it could be offensive. Parents are unoffensive and none-confusing. It's a good analogy.

I can't believe I just typed that post explaining how he is NOT comparing homosexuality to incest.

Here's the thing. People aren't attracted to their PARENTS kissing because it is their PARENTS. Because it's your mother and father. Because thinking of them in any state of sexual attraction is considered perverted to most people, which is quantifiable if not justifiable. Thinking of them making out, seeing them make out. It's almost like seeing a pieces of you kissing. It's your blood, your family. The man and woman who raised you. People don't just feel the way they do about their parents having sex, showing affection, etc. without reason. People don't feel that way about their family members without reason. There are legitimate quantifiable reasons to not want to see your parents kissing.

Lack of attraction doesn't=disgust. You can be not attracted to something and also not disgusted by it.

 

[101flyboy]

Maybe we do have a communication issue haha. I was going by what the OP said where he said basic displays of affection between two guys bothered him. Check his post. He said holding hands bothered him into basically having convulsions. And basic kissing he couldn't handle at all. Even the inference of it he can't seemingly handle.

Now, if we were talking about deep kissing, that's sexual. That's understandable, you wouldn't want to see two guys deep kissing because you wouldn't personally want to see two guys tearing into each other. Your mind will undoutedly go to sex because deep kissing is an aggressive act. It's a lustful act. I don't want to see two women deep kissing, I don't find it disgusting. But I don't want to see it. That's more of a sexuality thing, than a taste thing.

I'm not one of those anti-PDA types but deep kissing of any kind bothers me in public because it's inconsiderate and rude. But a couple of any gender combination showing some affection that doesn't cross the proverbial line of respect shouldn't be classified as disgusting for expressing their love for one another.

I see it now. My mind was actually focused on the OP's first paragraph (it's almost as if the second one went straight out of my brain). And it's also probably because here when people say "we kissed" it implies tongue and everything. (Considering I speak french the whole "frenching" expression isn't used at all, the definition of kissing is based on the context and in "romantic" contexts it usually equates to frenching)

OK I understand. I think there is a big difference, personally, between romantic kissing and sexual kissing. Yes, there are definitely different levels of kissing, and different reactions to these different forms of kissing.

Yeah, the first paragraph Aaron wrote one could take as making a statement, maybe overexaggerating a bit to make his point, but making his point nonetheless, without completely more or less crossing the line. But he said a lot, lot more than just "I don't like to see two guys french kissing". I guess we are less further apart on our views of kissing in general than we thought.

 

[Ren_Li]

we should allways ask why, thats a fundamental part of being human in my opinion. Incest has its social stigma as to the consequences, it could lead to offspring with disabilities due to the lack of two different sets of chromosomes. Therfor it has an actual reason.

How is that for homosexual couples? Do they risk to make anyone suffer or limit someones abilities in life? They just can not easily procreate.

So comparing both seems like you think homosexuality would have a potential for such negative consequences, aka it being bad and unhealthy.

Okay, so let's talk about another group I have absolutely zero attraction to which has absolutely zero negative consequences on reproduction or health.

Men with beards. I cannot look at a man with a beard and find him remotely attractive. I can think he looks cool, or interesting, or any other positive thing that has absolutely nothing to do with my loins. Not attractive, and the idea of picturing him in a sexual situation makes me shudder.
This is such a strong reaction to me that when my fiance- male- hasn't shaved for a few days, I can't find HIM attractive either. (Thankfully he's extremely blonde so stubble isn't glaringly obvious, but if I feel it that's an insta-turn-off.)

And yes. I would find two men with beards sexually kissing unpleasant. Or a man with a beard sexually kissing a woman. Because kissing- and I'm talking about making out, not about chaste kissing- making out implies sexuality. It comes across as a sexual act. And my brain, whilst not repulsed by men with beards generally, IS repulsed by actually contemplating men, with beards, having sex.

Because I am completely unattracted to them.

Now this is getting a bit abstract, because "men with beards" is a pretty unusual thing to be so totally uninterested in. Parents are a very, VERY common thing to be totally uninterested in, so it's useful for an instantly understandable analogy.
I could also bring up age or weight, but to be honest you could bring up health and/or potential negative consequences there too, whereas men with beards? Yeah, it's pretty weird for my testicles to go to sleep at facial hair but it's an example without negativity attached to it, so hopefully it's making my point.

Again. Chaste kissing is not my point here. Dudes with beards, I promise not to bat an eyelash if you peck each other on your none-hairy facial areas or hold hands or hug. Do anything sexual, and yes, I'll be very uncomfortable.
Just like I would if my parents did it, and just like most straight people are with gay people of the opposite sex.

...And just like most gay people would be as well, actually, with the people THEY'RE not attracted to. We simply don't want to think about the sexual activity of people we're 100% not into.

 

[m19]

Kissing or sex are intimate acts that go hand in hand with attraction. I cannot feel indifferent towards it. It's either great or it's a turn off. The idea of kissing a man is a turn off i.e. disgust. I don't see why it's an issue that things you do may disgust other people. Your life is yours and theirs is theirs.

 

[101flyboy]

I think part of the problem and why some of us are talking on top of each other is..............what exactly form of kissing is everyone talking about? Because it's clear some are talking basic affection, some making out, some in-between. I'm going by what the OP said. He said even the inference of two men showing any affection causes him seizures and whatever else. Not wanting to see people making out is a completely different situation. Kissing vs making out. Making out is sexual, actual extended deep kissing, it's an aggressive act. That's a whole different scenario than a 5 second kiss, pecks on the cheek, quick lip kiss.

This thread has more or less turned into sex ed.

 

[101flyboy]

You say that... but then there's the fact that you've copy-pasted that study-thing essay twice now (the entire thing, not just a single link at the bottom of your post), jumped on SmashLoves in the start for no reason at all and keep throwing around 'Projective Disgust' like a D20 in a hectic game of D&D.

If this is how you debate, I'm not that interested in debating with you because it's fucking irritating. While I do agree with you on a fair few points, I've had to fight the urge to ask whether or not your a first-year Psychology student (If you've ever gotten into an argument with a first year Psych/Bio/Philosophy student, you'd know why they're annoying) in a super-condescending way because of how you've been posting in this thread.

I get where your arguing from and what your arguing for, but... the execution could do with a dialing down from 'Nails on a Chalk Board' to 'Insistent but not irritating noise'.

I can gawk less and be less abrasive

 

[Overusedname]

It's something you should work on, and yeah, it's homophobia. It's even soft bigotry, but it isn't hateful and you're working on it.

Not all of us are exposed to certain people early on in life. I wouldn't feel GUILTY about it, but yes, it is something you should work on fixing. As a straight man who has found gay romance to be beautiful (just not 'hawt') it's not a natural reaction so much as an indoctrination. And that's, again, not to be condescending. We've all had instances of at least soft bigotry.

I'd say perceiving a balanced and gentle form of love as 'disgusting' is a bad thing though. It all depends on your perceptions of love, sex and what aspects of society have influence you. I don't fantasize about being in the position of people I see kissing very often, thus I don't make THAT direct of an association. I feel happy for my friend when he was considering a relationship with a VERY nice guy, for example. I relate to the emotions, and think less about the sexual details. Sexual preference comes down to specifics of what you want done to your body. For instance: I shudder at the thought of oral sex of any kind. I just do. It's not something I want to happen to me, and it's not something I want to do to someone else. But kissing, hugging, or just telling someone you love them is something more universal and muuuch less specific.

In many cases, it comes down to how open your perception of love is. A big key to my perception of love comes from one very important fact: if I was gay or bi, no one close to me would think of me poorly. I'd feel comfortable in that way.

Again, I don't wish to hate on anyone for the perceptions in this thread, that's not the goal. But it is worth it to try and put yourself in their position. Gay people don't get beaten to death or harassed for doing any kind of lofty crime, they become victims for walking down the street holding hands or adopting a child. So when someone is disgusted by them doing things any straight couple can do without question, it reminds them of how the world still perceives them. They might not mentally jump to thoughts of hate crime, but I've asked. It's always a painful reminder for them when they get a dirty look for no reason.

Call it political correctness, but sometimes it's easier to just call it being considerate.

 

[mitchell271]

Think of it this way, do you feel uncomfortable an amputee or a special kid?

Sooo you practically equated being homosexual with being disabled or mentally challenged...

It's interesting how people can support and feed each other false reassurances. Of course it's not YOU that's the problem, it is THEM for being *unconventional* and *special*. That's not a reasonable or healthy attitude at all. Feeling slightly uncomfortable when two men kiss doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a puppet of your and other people's insecurities.

Congratulations, you demonstrated the ability to take something completely out of context! If you read the rest of my post, it says that it's perfectly normal to not be prejudiced against them, but feel slightly uncomfortable. The rest of the post also says that I'm actively for homosexual rights. Read something in it's entirety you cry out against it.

 

[Jenvas1306]

we should allways ask why, thats a fundamental part of being human in my opinion. Incest has its social stigma as to the consequences, it could lead to offspring with disabilities due to the lack of two different sets of chromosomes. Therfor it has an actual reason.

How is that for homosexual couples? Do they risk to make anyone suffer or limit someones abilities in life? They just can not easily procreate.

So comparing both seems like you think homosexuality would have a potential for such negative consequences, aka it being bad and unhealthy.

Okay, so let's talk about another group I have absolutely zero attraction to which has absolutely zero negative consequences on reproduction or health.

Men with beards. I cannot look at a man with a beard and find him remotely attractive. I can think he looks cool, or interesting, or any other positive thing that has absolutely nothing to do with my loins. Not attractive, and the idea of picturing him in a sexual situation makes me shudder.
This is such a strong reaction to me that when my fiance- male- hasn't shaved for a few days, I can't find HIM attractive either. (Thankfully he's extremely blonde so stubble isn't glaringly obvious, but if I feel it that's an insta-turn-off.)

And yes. I would find two men with beards sexually kissing unpleasant. Or a man with a beard sexually kissing a woman. Because kissing- and I'm talking about making out, not about chaste kissing- making out implies sexuality. It comes across as a sexual act. And my brain, whilst not repulsed by men with beards generally, IS repulsed by actually contemplating men, with beards, having sex.

Because I am completely unattracted to them.

Now this is getting a bit abstract, because "men with beards" is a pretty unusual thing to be so totally uninterested in. Parents are a very, VERY common thing to be totally uninterested in, so it's useful for an instantly understandable analogy.
I could also bring up age or weight, but to be honest you could bring up health and/or potential negative consequences there too, whereas men with beards? Yeah, it's pretty weird for my testicles to go to sleep at facial hair but it's an example without negativity attached to it, so hopefully it's making my point.

Again. Chaste kissing is not my point here. Dudes with beards, I promise not to bat an eyelash if you peck each other on your none-hairy facial areas or hold hands or hug. Do anything sexual, and yes, I'll be very uncomfortable.
Just like I would if my parents did it, and just like most straight people are with gay people of the opposite sex.

...And just like most gay people would be as well, actually, with the people THEY'RE not attracted to. We simply don't want to think about the sexual activity of people we're 100% not into.

but dont you forget the 'why'? why does the simple presence of visible facical hair cause such a reaction? my bf shaves his head and face together, and cause he is lazy lets it grow then for a bit. So I constantly have him bald and shaved or with hair and with beard. no matter of the combinations of that state, he is still attractive to me. So asking why you react in such a way is certainly what comes to my mind first, maybe you would find more than just a simple 'because thats how it is'.

anyways, my elaboration was just to clarify why comparng incest and homosexuality isnt a good idea.

and another why: why is it that observing unstimulating sex-related behavior cause negative feelings? Is that natural or just a creation of society. We all cant deny that our parents had sex (I assume there are no people here who were made in a petridish), sex is a natural thing, but it still causes experiance of negative feelings when just thinking about the simple fact that they did it, most likely more than once.

 

[Angie7F]

I think that a lot of guys react negatively to homosexuality because they are culturally trained to do so.
Also, I often wonder if it has anything to do with the different between who does the penetration and who gets penetrated.
I cant help but wonder if two men with one another grossed people out because something that usually does not get penetrated is getting penetrated.
Like the way you see a person's leg twisted in the wrong way, you instantly feel freaked out because that is not the way a leg should look.

 

[Jenvas1306]

I think that a lot of guys react negatively to homosexuality because they are culturally trained to do so.
Also, I often wonder if it has anything to do with the different between who does the penetration and who gets penetrated.
I cant help but wonder if two men with one another grossed people out because something that usually does not get penetrated is getting penetrated.
Like the way you see a person's leg twisted in the wrong way, you instantly feel freaked out because that is not the way a leg should look.

oral and anal with a woman is still exciting for lots of guys

 

[waj9876]

This is a very strange dilemma, huh? Doubly for me, being...I've been calling myself pansexual for a while now, but it may not be that. A bisexual who is attracted to any and all genders. Including transgender, and both. And I still find seeing two guys kissing a little uncomfortable.

Might just be because I'm not used to seeing it, where I see straight people kissing all the time.

 

[Ren_Li]

but dont you forget the 'why'? why does the simple presence of visible facical hair cause such a reaction? my bf shaves his head and face together, and cause he is lazy lets it grow then for a bit. So I constantly have him bald and shaved or with hair and with beard. no matter of the combinations of that state, he is still attractive to me. So asking why you react in such a way is certainly what comes to my mind first, maybe you would find more than just a simple 'because thats how it is'.

anyways, my elaboration was just to clarify why comparng incest and homosexuality isnt a good idea.

and another why: why is it that observing unstimulating sex-related behavior cause negative feelings? Is that natural or just a creation of society. We all cant deny that our parents had sex (I assume there are no people here who were made in a petridish), sex is a natural thing, but it still causes experiance of negative feelings when just thinking about the simple fact that they did it, most likely more than once.

I know exactly why I'm not into men with beards. It's complicated and not worth getting into in a public thread about something else, but in the end, it boils down to "I'm not attracted to them", no deep and meaningful philosophy behind it. My point was just, "this is a group I'm not attracted to and my reaction to them getting sexual is about the same as straight men to gay guys making out." It's a fairly common reaction from what I've seen.

As for sex... I don't think it's acceptance of the fact of sex that generally makes people uncomfortable (well... Not always, anyway.) I think it's more having it brought to mind. We think of sex as a very intimate and personal thing. So... Yeah, I'd guess aversion to being forced to witnes it- or behaviour we think of as sexual- is a socially created thing.

Getting a little off topic here but I figured I'd reply.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

But I still find the sight of lesbians damn, damn sexy.

You see, what I'm asking here is why the word "homophobic" has one single definition, when I GUARANTEE you that a sizable chunk of the world's population could be classified as "homophobic" when it comes to homosexuals of their own gender, and not bothered at all by the idea of the OPPOSITE sex engaging in homosexual acts.

Case in point, I bet a lot of women find the idea of two guys getting it on quite sexy/arousing. It has to be true judging by all the stuff I find on DeviantArt (yes, that site, deal with it ) drawn-up by female artists, and all the comments by female fans. And I've known plenty of females who could literally puke at the very thought of two girls kissing yelling "oh god disgusting!!", something that would be a welcome sight by a lot of guys. They could be called homophobic because they dislike the idea of lesbians...okay, dislike is a strong word, but they will still make them uneasy or uncomfortable. But it's only natural, is it not??

Thoughts?

What? Nothing wrong with Deviant Art, I'm on that site at least once a week.

But on to what I'm here to say, I don't think you are homophobic. A phobia is a fear of something. Do you actually outright fear such things. A person can be grossed out by something but not fear it.

I'm like you, seeing two girls together appeals to me. I believe I like it on a matter that I get to see the sexual intimacy, without seeing some other guy. I know downright that I'm straight as an arrow, because one thought or sight of another guy while looking at a girl or girls will turn me right off.

I don't really watch porn, but it is easy for me to not watch anyway because mass amounts of it is video or pics of a guy and a girl. I only want to look at girls, so stuff with only a girl or girls is what I like. I really do think that is why a lot of guys like the idea, thinking of, and looking at lesbians. It is a matter of looking at girls while also getting to see the intimate stuff.