What is your opinion on the Death Penalty and why?

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ShadowStar42

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Honestly for a long time I was on the fence on this subject as well, it wasn't until about 3 years ago that I really decided on a firm stance concerning the death penalty. For perspective sake, I'm 31 and American so all I my comments will represent that.

The first thing I want to address is the several people saying that the death penalty will save money/food/air/space or whatever else. Unfortunately none of this is true, while I understand that hypothetically you could just put a bullet in the brain of everyone sentenced to death there are very good reasons it doesn't work that way. In America there is a long process of mandatory appeals before the death penalty is enacted and these are very necessary to the integrity of the system. During these appeals people have been found to be innocent, and it is known for a fact that despite all of the precautions we take innocent people have been executed in the United States, and anything that shortens the processes would result in more mistakes made.

The Criminal Justice System serves 5 purposes, dependent on the society these purposes are given different weight.

1) Punishment - punishing offenders
2) Deterrent - preventing new offenders with threat of punishment
3) Rehabilitation - correcting the behavior of offenders
4) Removal - keeping offenders confined to prevent further bad acts
5) Revenge - providing a sense of well being to victims

Several people have mentioned rape and the like here, but in America the death penalty can generally only be applied to murder and treason, and since treason is so rare we're only going to look at murder here.

Clearly with the death penalty we aren't looking at rehabilitation, and while some people see it's value the American government doesn't recognize the value of revenge in the Criminal Justice System so let's look at the remaining 3 purposes the death penalty might serve.

Removal, this is the most clear use for the death penalty, however since life without the possibility of parole serves the same purpose (and in the case of a Federal facility with equal effectiveness) we can count that as a wash. Similarly as has been discussed in this thread already, punishment can fall on either side of the fence so there's little value in debating between the two. Which leaves us with deterrent.

A few people here have already suggested that the threat of the death penalty may prevent murders from happening in the first place. Let's ignore the statistics involving crime rates for the moment and just look at it from an abstract. When broken down intentional murders (accidental murders also don't fall under the death penalty) are committed for one or more of three reasons.

1) Passion - someone gets angry and kills someone in the heat of the moment.
2) Profit - someone thinks they will gain something of value to them by committing the murder
3) Psychosis - someone who does not know right from wrong kills out of compulsion.

When we think of it this way it because obvious where the flaw to the deterrent argument arises. In the cases of Passion and Psychosis there is no consideration of the cost of committing a murder, no substantial forethought of the consequences so no form of deterrent will effect them. In the case of Profit many people argue that the death penalty would deter but you have to remember that Profit murderers expect that they won't get caught. There is no-one out there who kills someone for prophet the the expectation that if they get caught they will ONLY serve 20 years in prison followed by a lifetime of being a convicted murderer. That's going to fall short in any cost benefit analysis, therefore in those cases getting caught is simply a yes/no proposition, the punishment whether death or simple imprisonment is effectively the same.

So for these reasons, I am against the death penalty.
 

Quid Plura

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I'm against it. As for the death penalty in America, get rid of a jury making the verdict first. Have people who actually know the first thing about the law decide if someone's guilty or not. Then it might be a good punishment.
 

antidonkey

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I'm from Texas so obviously I'm for it. However, I think we should liven it up a bit like George Carlin has mentioned.

Instead of lethal injection....High speed catapult right into a concrete wall. I bet serious crime would drop with that being the ultimate punishment.
 

Danny Ocean

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Legendary Alucard said:
I personally have mixed feelings about it, I dont think we should Execute Small Offenders, But i do think we should take care of those who got Caught with child Rape and call in the old firing squad.. So what is your opninion?
I object to it because:

1. Philosophically speaking it's quite hard to determine if a person was actually acting on free will, or if free will even exists.

2. I think that the 'eye for an eye' mentality is vengeful, barbaric, outdated, and lacks sufficient depth to reflect human nature.

3. It leaves no second chances. It's awful that innocent people have been executed.

4. Why punish the family of the offender like that? What if he has dependencies?

5. It doesn't really deter in my mind.
 

Moromillas

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Ok, here's one of the things that really do bug me because opinions on it are somewhat backwards, or maybe misinformed. "But they're murderers and rapists, and the death penalty should be reserved for the worst of them." No, no it shouldn't, the death penalty is a mercy. Some prisons are as close as you can get to hell on earth, they don't want to be in there. Hanging yourself in a cell is an easy way out for them, and the death penalty makes it sound a lot nicer, like being put under for an operation.
 

astrav1

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Legendary Alucard said:
I personally have mixed feelings about it, I dont think we should Execute Small Offenders, But i do think we should take care of those who got Caught with child Rape and call in the old firing squad.. So what is your opninion?
I agree.
 

SonicWaffle

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Spygon said:
I can see what you are saying also i am 23 myself weirdly enough lol.But at the point of crime most people will be weighing up the reward vs risk.So if your there at your house thinking either do i not do the crime and carry on with my long life (as most criminals are young to middle age) or do it possibly get caught then am killed never to experince anything ever again.I feel that is alot more of a threat than i will be locked in a room to be given food and will get to see my family/friends from time to time as even people that are doing life sentences are allowed vistors rarely.
I guess it depends on your outlook. Some people would prefer to be alive however terrible their lives may be, while others would rather be faced with death than a life of solitude and boredom.

However, this is being looked at the wrong way. How many criminals really sit down and weigh up risk vs reward? Going by a sample of the ones I know (and, sadly, I know a fair few and I wish they'd sort themselves the fuck out) they are more likely to see a situation and react to it. Unattended bag? Swipe it. Don't think "Oh no, I could be punished for this", they'll just react and commit the crime. Capital punishment isn't a deterrent in most cases, though social pressure is. I bet there are more people who've avoided committing murder because they didn't want the social stigma or for their mums to know or whatever than there are people who avoided it because of the death penalty.

oktalist said:
kman123 didn't mention 9/11 or anything of the sort.

And it's incredibly hypocritical to first complain about something someone supposedly said, and then when they complain about something you said, to reply with "if you don't like it GTFO."
Yay oktalist! And you shall have a cookie!
 

sizzle949

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orangecharger said:
Chronamut said:
I'm a journalist and in my experience (watching recordings, statements, talking to lawyers etc.) most really bad serial killers actually prefer a painless death more than being stuck in jail for life, and a very widely misunderstood fact is that the death penalty is ACTUALLY more expensive than life in prison. I think very bad criminals should be put in small cells to rot and go insane, that is a proper punishment.
Some of my peers also believe that the death penalty causes oppression in society, this I haven't actually researched myself though so I have nothing to say about that.
I am interested how the death penalty is more expensive? Can you elaborate? Life imprisonment of a 30 year old gives you 50 years of paying for 3 squares a day, and let's say it's one guard for every 50 prisoners for easy numbers. That's one guard's yearly salary dedicated to watching this guy over his sentence. Not to mention the upkeep on the facility he's imprisoned in.

Last I checked rope wasn't all that expensive. Is lethal injection really more expensive than feeding that guy for 50 years? Or is the more expensive part the fact that the legal system allows the prisoner to appeal his sentence for 50 years first before being killed as an old man. So you have the 50 years of food etc, plus court fees, plus the injection?
The reason capital punishment is more expensive comes from the legal system that is required in order to make sure no innocences are killed by accident. I remember studying this in both my Crim and Law courses in university where they broke down the costs pretty well, but I forgot most of it.

Anyways, I'm against it for several reasons. First for the reason above. Second the deterrent effect is pretty much nonexistent. Those who commit murder do so either thinking "there is no way i'm going to get caught, so the penalty doesn't matter" or it's a passion crime in which the person committed their act in the heat of the moment, and would have never thought of the punishment to begin with. And third, I honestly don't think that life imprisonment without parole is that much less of a punishment than capital punishment. If you think that perhaps that is much more cruel than capital punishment, then perhaps we could try something like opening up euthanasia for these murders.
 

Ldude893

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Dead men don't learn from their mistakes.

And what a coincidence, I'm working on a debate against Capital Punishment for school right now. Here are some reasons why we should ban Death Penalty:

-It's cruel and unusual
-While executing murderers does initially deter people from committing murders, the homicide rate increases drastically over time and sometimes even more than before the execution.
-Innocent people have been accidentally convicted and sentenced to the Death Penalty, and while many have been acquitted and proven innocent before the punishment was been given out, many were too late.
-It's more expensive than life imprisonment in so many levels. The state of California spends almost 90,000,000 dollars on Capital Punishment every year, and the money to pay for that comes from taxes and other law enforcement branches that are doing more helpful things to protect public safety than Capital Punishment.
-Sending prisoners to life imprisonment gives almost the same result as Capital Punishment: The murderers don't come back out killing people. A study tracking over 6,000 former murderers released on parole showed that only less than 10% of the released prisoners committed a crime after their release, and less than 1% actually commit another homicide.
-The entire process of Capital Punishment is motivated by revenge rather than actual justice.
 

Spygon

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SonicWaffle said:
Spygon said:
I can see what you are saying also i am 23 myself weirdly enough lol.But at the point of crime most people will be weighing up the reward vs risk.So if your there at your house thinking either do i not do the crime and carry on with my long life (as most criminals are young to middle age) or do it possibly get caught then am killed never to experince anything ever again.I feel that is alot more of a threat than i will be locked in a room to be given food and will get to see my family/friends from time to time as even people that are doing life sentences are allowed vistors rarely.
I guess it depends on your outlook. Some people would prefer to be alive however terrible their lives may be, while others would rather be faced with death than a life of solitude and boredom.
Is is mostly likely down to people outlook and i do not think people will ever agree on this subject as everybody is different.So guess we agree to disagree.

SonicWaffle said:
However, this is being looked at the wrong way. How many criminals really sit down and weigh up risk vs reward? Going by a sample of the ones I know (and, sadly, I know a fair few and I wish they'd sort themselves the fuck out) they are more likely to see a situation and react to it. Unattended bag? Swipe it. Don't think "Oh no, I could be punished for this", they'll just react and commit the crime. Capital punishment isn't a deterrent in most cases, though social pressure is. I bet there are more people who've avoided committing murder because they didn't want the social stigma or for their mums to know or whatever than there are people who avoided it because of the death penalty.

Yes there are opportunity crimes and your not the one to know these type of people sadly.But murder or rape is very rarely one of them criminals do not normally just realise they can murder/rape someone then do it.As they plan or stalk there target till there alone or at home then do the crime so they always have a chance to think it through.Especialy the serial killers and rapists as i said only support the death penalty against the worse of human kind.Not thieves or vandals
 

Spinozaad

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On the one hand I (used to) say that murdering people to show that murder (for example) is bad is inherently hypocritical.

On the other hand... I can't really object to the murder of "professional" criminals who enter and leave prison to the metaphorical revolving door, regardless of 'second chances' and help to better themselves they have received.
 

Shycte

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Against it.

Why? It doesn't work, places with the death penalty still have crimes.
 

brunothepig

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For it... Sometimes. For serious crimes like murder without justification, child rape, maybe other extreme cases. However, only if we're certain there really was no justification for their crime, as it indicates they'll just do it again, being psychotic. More importantly, we have to be one hundred percent certain they're guilty. The worst thing would be executing someone then finding they didn't do it. A few years jail time is no small price for an act you didn't do, but it can be compensated for and your life back on track. Not so if you're dead.
 

PinkiePyro

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Against it
two wrongs don't make a right
I actully feel the prison system needs a revamp
we need to get rid of the death pentany and change as many prisons to this guys system
as its not only a more effective punishment it is less costly to and we all know we need to cut government spending
http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2005/06/04/111793349229233723/
 

Feystar

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And now a word from our sponsor, the great Gandalf:

Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.
 

SonicWaffle

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Spygon said:
Is is mostly likely down to people outlook and i do not think people will ever agree on this subject as everybody is different.So guess we agree to disagree.
OR!

We dress as Roman gladiators and fight to the death over it. C'mon, it'll be fun!

Spygon said:
Yes there are opportunity crimes and your not the one to know these type of people sadly.But murder or rape is very rarely one of them criminals do not normally just realise they can murder/rape someone then do it.As they plan or stalk there target till there alone or at home then do the crime so they always have a chance to think it through.Especialy the serial killers and rapists as i said only support the death penalty against the worse of human kind.Not thieves or vandals
Actually, I'd argue that most rapes are oppotunity crimes. Date rape aside, a rapist will generally (or so it seems to me) wait for a victim and then drag them into an alley or whatever it is they do. Such as those taxi drivers a year or so back who were convicted of rape - they weren't raping everyone they gave a ride to, just drunk & vulnerable women.

As for murderers, It's my opinion (though I don't have any statistics to back it up, it's just what I think) that most are crimes of passion. People strike out in anger or fear and someone dies. Maybe the girl you've been seeing is going to tell your wife. Maybe your colleague is going to tell the boss you've been skimming off the top. Maybe someone just catches you midway through a different crime. All too often, people lash out without thinking, rather than choosing their prey and stalking them.
 

JoJo

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I don't support death penalty as I think life imprisonment is worse and there's no risk of executing an innocent person...
 

Grahav

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Some people deserve to die, but the law system is far from perfect. Misdjugements can occur and only the poor are executed and not the guy who kill dozens by eating the money intended to construct hospitals and sewer systems.

So I am in favor, but only if there was a perfect fair system, which there is not.
 

Zykon TheLich

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Nossir, I don't like it.

Until we have an infallible courts system, and even then it's not really an effective deterrant and as far as punishment goes if I were a relative of the victim (capital punishment for anything other than murder is right out) I'd prefer to have them imprisoned for life and me be able to go and hit them with a stick whenever I feel like it.