What's with the extreme Nintendo Hate?

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Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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WOPR said:
So you think Super Mario Bros 2 is the same as Mario Galaxy and Super Paper Mario? and Wind Waker is the same as Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess?

Kind of a bit different than upgrades of COD...:S

Luigi's Mansion 2 has online multiplayer and so does Animal Crossing New Leaf. There are quite a few games for the 3DS that have online multiplayer...

Like I said are you even playing these games or just criticising them without knowing anything about them?

I'm imagine they didn't have more than a clip on one before because a full on analogue stick is a little ungainly for a hand held.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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Casual Shinji said:
Moonlight Butterfly said:
WOPR said:
I hate to repeat myself but the fact that they have the same characters does not mean they are the same game. Are you seriously arguing that all mario and zelda games are exactly the same? If you are I can only assume you haven't played them.
Having different characters helps though. When people say "Nintendo just keeps making the same game", what I think they mean is that they keep using the same characteristics. The same Mario, the same Link, going through the same overarching ordeal as they have been for years.

Creating a new character in a new world with a new visual style can add some freshness. And depended on this new character and world, it can open up newer gameplay possibilities.
The gameplay is different enough between iterations unless you are suggesting Bowser's Inside Story is the same as Mario Galaxy :/

It just seems like having a go at DC for using Superman and Batman.
 

MetalDooley

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Feb 9, 2010
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Casual Shinji said:
Yet it's still a different game with different gameplay.
Different gameplay?Okami follows the exact same gameplay template as pretty much every Zelda game ever made

It's got different characters, a different story, setting, visual style, and atmosphere.
And if you stuck Wolf Link from Twilight Princess into the game and kept everything else it would be indistinguishable from a Zelda title.

The reason I gave Okami as an example is because it's basically Zelda with a different coat of paint.
And that's my point.You can't say X is basically Y with a different coat of paint and then claim X is vastly different than Y

Lovely Mixture said:
Gameplay-wise? Yeah maybe not.
A different experience though? You can definitely argue that.
When the gameplay is so similar then I would argue that's it's not a different experience at all.You could swap out Amaterasu for Wolf Link from Twilight Princess and keep everything else and it would be a zelda game

Look I'm not saying okami is bad.Far from it.I'm simply suggesting that when something plays so similarly it's hard to call it vastly different
 

Lovely Mixture

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MetalDooley said:
When the gameplay is so similar then I would argue that's it's not a different experience at all.You could swap out Amaterasu for Wolf Link from Twilight Princess and keep everything else and it would be a zelda game

Look I'm not saying okami is bad.Far from it.I'm simply suggesting that when something plays so similarly it's hard to call it vastly different
Look at it this way.

If Ookami had starred a humanoid protagonist in a fantasy land with elements similar to Zelda and no reference to Japanese mythology, then I doubt anyone would have cared about it. It would have been written off as a Wind Waker clone.


Characters and World - Distinctly Different
Gameplay - Not as different.

If you need an example of something UNEXCITING, look at all the shooters that use two settings (future with/without aliens, modern warfare) and the same gameplay. People still eat them up, they make money, but it's still repetition.
 

major_chaos

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Feb 3, 2011
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Well I can speak for everyone, but I know why I hate Nintendo even though I loved them as recently as the Gamecube:

Two generations of mediocre consoles, defined by pointless gimmicks that at best add nothing and at worse detract from my enjoyment.

Both of those consoles having a very short list of worthwhile games.

Making people get down on their knees and beg for NTSC versions of the rainfall games, even though they were already translated to English, and then releasing them in extremely limited quantities.

Failure to (in recent years) make a good Metroid (prime 3 was a startling drop in quality from the first two, and Other M is one of the worst AAA titles I have ever played) Starfox (Adventures was big N assuming direct control and hijacking someone else's project, and not very good on top of that. Assault was better, but still deeply flawed, and Command had such a lukewarm reception that I never bothered to play it) or Zelda (Windwaker was an exercise in tedium, Twilight Princess was decent on the GC albeit horrendously easy, and Skyward sword just assaulted my will to keep playing at every turn to the point that I never finished the first dungeon).

Cranking out garbage like Wiisports, Nintendo Land, Wii music, Ect. in a transparent attempt to get some o' them sweat Iphone game monies.

While I didn't used to think Mario was overused, I'm getting sick of "new" super Mario bros: another one.
 

Austin Manning

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Moonlight Butterfly said:
Most people don't play Nintendo games for the story though they play it for the gameplay. Sonic is a good example of what happens when you try to add depth to something like Mario...
No Sonic is a bad example of adding depth to something like Mario. A good example would be Sly Cooper, or Ratchet and Clank, or Jak & Daxter. (especially that last one, when Naughty Dog was pitching it, the idea was Mario 64 but with an open world and actual characters.
 

direkiller

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Lrbearclaw said:
Yuuki said:
1) Endless re-using of the same IP, refusal to try any new IP
2) Wii's motion sensor being a piece of shit with delay/accuracy frustrations for a VERY long time
3) Innovative control methods purely for the sake for innovation and no practical reason. "At least it's unique" is not a fucking justification, a sandwich filled with shit is also unique
4) Catering to casual gamers while throwing hardcore gamers out on their asses
5) Refusal to use decent hardware, it was either having games look like shit (or use cell shading) or not having graphics-heavy games at all
6) Terrible third party support
7) Did I mention terrible hardware support?
1) So unlike Call of Duty, Battlefield and Halo?
2) While the Kinect and PS-Move are amazingly accurate?
3) I know! We'll add a gyro to the controller so when someone tips the controller while turning it does something!
4) Because no Nintendo players EVER go for 100% completion.
5) You're right! I mean, look at the rich detail of the grey and browns that cover nearly all of CoD's screen.
6) You mean the quality items made by Nyko and MadCatz?
7) Do you even remember the Red Ring of Death?
nothing you just said invaladates any of his points.

1. people do hate on all 3 of those for that reason
2. again people think there buggy trash
3. still dose not absove nintendo(also less then 15% of games us the six axis for anything)
4.Still dose not absolve nintendo, and I think he is refering to the amount of resorces devoted to minigame based shovleware that is marketed to a diffident demographic then the more traditional games. Not completion whores,who are a small portion of the people referd to as hardcore gamers.
6. He is referring to 3rd party games, there is a reason why games like Castle Crashers is not on the Wii or WiiU, despite the fact they whould sell like hotcakes.
7. again dose not absolve Nintendo, and Microsoft did get a lot of flack for that.
 

Lrbearclaw

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direkiller said:
1. people do hate on all 3 of those for that reason
2. again people think there buggy trash
3. still dose not absove nintendo(also less then 15% of games us the six axis for anything)
4.Still dose not absolve nintendo, and I think he is refering to the amount of resorces devoted to minigame based shovleware that is marketed to a diffident demographic then the more traditional games. Not completion whores,who are a small portion of the people referd to as hardcore gamers.
6. He is referring to 3rd party games, there is a reason why games like Castle Crashers is not on the Wii or WiiU, despite the fact they whould sell like hotcakes.
7. again dose not absolve Nintendo, and Microsoft did get a lot of flack for that.
Again, sarcasm was lost. Now, I could only make out half of that prior to spell-check, but again, I was being sarcastic. Wii/Wii U were gimmicky yes. I would NEVER argue that, but then again at least they are doing something different and add variety.

Were it not for Nintendo's "gimmicks" we would not have the decent (at will) lock-on we got from Ocarina of Time.

Were it not for Nintendo and their gimmicks we would not have a good hand-held game market. Where do I get that? Remember hand-held games at the early days of the GameBoy and before? They were crappy little games that were beeps and a series of images that were illuminated from behind on a cardboard background.

I do think Nintendo should go back to embracing third-party developers. That was why the NES/SNES were amazing with thousands of games.

Now, to the thing about Nintendo CS, I never once had issue with it. Be it from glitches in hardware to breakage and repairs to pre-internet game help.


All the Nintendo-hate is just butt-hurt fanboys who think "mature gaming" requires rape-comments and raging in multiplayer. There is room for "cartoony" graphics in gaming, this does not make a game "kid-friendly". That sort of comment is no different than saying anime is for kids. It is a stupid and ignorant statement.
 

Soxafloppin

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Jun 22, 2009
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I certainly do not hate Nintendo, my best gaming memories are on Gamecube!

I do imagine a world where Nintendo are Software only, and it is a beautiful world.
 

GeneralFungi

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deadish said:
What's with all the hate?

Mostly annoyance with Nintendo fanboys really. Criticize Nintendo in anyway and the Nintendo Defense Force jumps into action regardless how justified the criticism is.
I hate it when people disagree with me too. Wouldn't it be much easier if everyone just had the same opinion and no one ever debated on anything? I'd much rather read threads where everyone restates previously made opinions with no meaningful discussion. It wouldn't require me to use as much of my brain so I could put more energy into agreeing with what everyone else said earlier in the thread. All of those perspectives that aren't my own only get in the way.

This attitude completely kills reasonable intelligent discussion. If you don't want to put up with people that don't agree with you it'd be much easier to go somewhere remote then denouncing them as naysayers. Like Antarctica. I hear penguins don't play video games so these kinds of debates would be a lot easier.


RT said:
Yeah, every fanbase has its share of crazy motherfuckers, but for some reason Nintendo's are more noticeable last couple of years. Go figure.
I don't see much evidence so suggest that Nintendo has a fan base any worse then any other company. You're free to cite some proper examples, but they actually seem pretty mild compared to the Sony example.

Unless your criteria for 'crazy ************' is 'doesn't play the videogames I play'.
 

TrevHead

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Im 33 and have never owned any Ninty hardware until recently. While in the past I've seen their quirkiness as Nintendo just been stupid, but given how bland much of gaming has become I've started to appreciate their quirkiness.
 

deadish

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GeneralFungi said:
deadish said:
What's with all the hate?

Mostly annoyance with Nintendo fanboys really. Criticize Nintendo in anyway and the Nintendo Defense Force jumps into action regardless how justified the criticism is.
I hate it when people disagree with me too. Wouldn't it be much easier if everyone just had the same opinion and no one ever debated on anything? I'd much rather read threads where everyone restates previously made opinions with no meaningful discussion. It wouldn't require me to use as much of my brain so I could put more energy into agreeing with what everyone else said earlier in the thread. All of those perspectives that aren't my own only get in the way.

This attitude completely kills reasonable intelligent discussion. If you don't want to put up with people that don't agree with you it'd be much easier to go somewhere remote then denouncing them as naysayers. Like Antarctica. I hear penguins don't play video games so these kinds of debates would be a lot easier.
An "intelligent discussion" requires people to be able to admit they are wrong. There is no "discussing" with "true believers".
 

GeneralFungi

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deadish said:
An "intelligent discussion" requires people to be able to admit they are wrong. There is no "discussing" with "true believers".
So intelligent discussion is only intelligent when the people debating against you eventually agree with you.

If two people disagree and they provide reasonable evidence that supports their opinion then how do you determine that anyone is wrong? People like j-e-f-f-e-r-s have done a reasonable job of providing fact and evidence in order to support why they believe what they believe, but no one, including the people vehemently against Nintendo has really conceded on anything.

There is no ultimate truth. There is opinion. You do not define what is the truth or not. Opinion doesn't equal fact. And grouping everyone who doesn't share the same view as you into a single convenient group to ostracize is a very convenient way to disregard everything they say in order to reinforce the status quo.

There are legitimate points on both sides, but it seems like there are more people in the negative zone with Nintendo that demonstrate this 'True believer' mentality then those darn Nintendo occultists.
 

deadish

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GeneralFungi said:
deadish said:
An "intelligent discussion" requires people to be able to admit they are wrong. There is no "discussing" with "true believers".
So intelligent discussion is only intelligent when the people debating against you eventually agree with you.
Which requires being able to admit one is wrong.

If two people disagree and they provide reasonable evidence that supports their opinion then how do you determine that anyone is wrong? People like j-e-f-f-e-r-s have done a reasonable job of providing fact and evidence in order to support why they believe what they believe, but no one, including the people vehemently against Nintendo has really conceded on anything.

There is no ultimate truth. There is opinion. You do not define what is the truth or not. Opinion doesn't equal fact. And grouping everyone who doesn't share the same view as you into a single convenient group to ostracize is a very convenient way to disregard everything they say in order to reinforce the status quo.

There are legitimate points on both sides, but it seems like there are more people in the negative zone with Nintendo that demonstrate this 'True believer' mentality then those darn Nintendo occultists.
I take issue with "There is no ultimate truth.". It really depends on the subject matter being discussed.

If there really is "no ultimate truth", why discuss things at all. It's all opinion right? /rolleyes

Only when it's about "taste" should people just agree to disagree. As the old saying goes, "De gustibus non est disputandum".

The problem with Nintendo fanboys is they won't ever admit that Nintendo made a mistake. They won't even accept that Nintendo MIGHT have made a mistake. To them Nintendo can do no wrong. Their position on everything Nintendo is unshakable - it's almost like a religion to them.

It's very annoying when they plague every darn Nintendo topic. I stop bothering with them now and just ignore them.
 

BarelyAudible

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Lrbearclaw said:
direkiller said:
I do think Nintendo should go back to embracing third-party developers. That was why the NES/SNES were amazing with thousands of games.
I'm a rah rah Nintendo kind of guy, but they never really embraced third-party developers.

The Big N was very strict about the game's content, when it could come out, and even how many copies you could make.

The NES got all the games because it was THE biggest market in its time. Same for the PS1 and PS2.


On a side note, can anyone validate this story:
Sega prepared Sonic Heroes for the Gamecube and Xbox only. Sony said, "Hey, if we don't get this game, you'll never see another Sega game on a Sony console".
 

GeneralFungi

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deadish said:
GeneralFungi said:
If two people disagree and they provide reasonable evidence that supports their opinion then how do you determine that anyone is wrong? People like j-e-f-f-e-r-s have done a reasonable job of providing fact and evidence in order to support why they believe what they believe, but no one, including the people vehemently against Nintendo has really conceded on anything.

There is no ultimate truth. There is opinion. You do not define what is the truth or not. Opinion doesn't equal fact. And grouping everyone who doesn't share the same view as you into a single convenient group to ostracize is a very convenient way to disregard everything they say in order to reinforce the status quo.

There are legitimate points on both sides, but it seems like there are more people in the negative zone with Nintendo that demonstrate this 'True believer' mentality then those darn Nintendo occultists.
I take issue with "There is no ultimate truth.". It really depends on the subject matter being discuss.

If there really is "no ultimate truth", why discuss things at all. It's all opinion right? /rolleyes
Debates are meant to allow you to see the situation from someone else's perspective. You don't have to agree with them, but it's supposed to allow you to have a better understanding of why people think a certain way. Maybe saying the 'No ultimate truth' thing was a bit heavy handed on my part.

There is no correct opinion is probably more appropriate. You can demonstrate that one opinion is less thought out and based on ignorance, but you can't provide evidence that proves one opinion is the 'correct' opinion or that said opinion is better then every other.

deadish said:
Only when it's about "taste" should people just agree to disagree. As the old saying goes, "De gustibus non est disputandum".

The problem with Nintendo fanboys is they won't ever admit that Nintendo made a mistake. To them Nintendo can do no wrong. After awhile I stop bothering and just ignore them.
There are Nintendo fanboys that are very radical about their love for Nintendo. But I'm seeing a lot more people on this thread that can't accept Nintendo did anything correct past the gamecube era. I hate to use the term 'Nintendo Haters', but there are plenty of people who also have a very radical opinion about Nintendo. Just on the opposite scale. People who are completely disregarding evidence that goes against what they believe because the people defending Nintendo are 'fanboys' so their opinion can remain unchallenged.

Exactly how people will disregard someone because they're a 'hater'.

It's really bad on both sides, but this site in particular seems to be kind of unbalanced against Nintendo in my experience. I love Nintendo but I can accept some criticisms. They need to produce more major original IPs. The ones they have are great but not many of the new IPs being made are getting as much attention as Mario. And it is a very common opinion that Nintendo needs to start getting some heavy hitting titles on the Wii U and fast.

But I love the idea of the Wii U gamepad. I love seeing what Nintendo's plans for Mario, Zelda and others are. And I don't mind that the Wii U has lower specs, because it lowers costs and allows developers to worry less about how good their game looks and more on how interesting their games are. The New Xbox and PS4 seem to be trying to be as much of a PC as possible, while the Wii U has it's own identity and is off doing it's own thing that no other gaming device can really provide.

There are truths on both sides. People just need to balance out a bit and gain a new perspective. I can respect anyone with any opinion as long as they can do a reasonable job of presenting their reasoning. But I don't have to agree with them to see understand why they feel the way they do.
 
Jan 1, 2013
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Lovely Mixture said:
I'm not arguing if it's good or not. I'm arguing if it's making any progress.

When you get a re-release of Ocarina of Time on Gamecube, that's fine, you're stepping up the graphics to the next generation.
When you get a re-release of Ocarina of Time on Wii (and later Wii U), you understand that they're trying step it up and give it the new control scheme.
When you get a re-release of Ocarina of Time on the the 3DS it's start to time thinking about why you're focusing so much on the same game.
You shouldn't be making that argument with the 3DS version of the game. Of all it was the least lazy of the re-releases: it added new graphics, the 3D effects, it contains the Master Quest, and it also changed the controllers. The gyroscope now can be used to control the slingshot and the Fairy Bow, which is a lot easier and more precise than using the analogue sticks were in the previous version.
Spending time making it is justified because they actually made the game better.

Generally speaking, I appreciate when companies make re-releases of games on different systems because then I actually get to play them.
 

funkyjiveturkey

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I think it's caused by all the legitimate complaints you listed in your second paragraph. topped with a failure to keep up with current technology standards which has driven their original demographic of loyal customers to sony and microsoft because they can provide newer technology and more innovation and creativity than nintendo can by rehashing the same characters and dried up stories over and over again. I've really grown to dislike nintendo over the years. do i flat out hate them? no, not at all. but i'm certainly not touching the wii-U with a 40 foot pole, and i haven't paid for a wii game in years (with my wii being homebrewed and all, but even then i still don't play any newer ones).

A Theory:
Nintendo has completely failed to keep up with the changing market and demographics of their consumer base. Nintendo made it big in the 80's and 90's off of young kids. we all grew up with mario and link and samus in some way or another. my older brothers grew up with the NES, and by the time i was a kid i gamed using the N64. so for the last 2 and a half decades Nintendo's main consumer base has been children usually aged 8-16. the gamecube was no match in the market for the PS2, but it was a nice step for Nintendo. good graphics, game lineup, decent third party support, and a controller that i still consider one of the best designs by far. however by the time we get to the wii Nintendo completely changed up their stradegy by cutting out hardware for gimmicky motion control, and changing their target audience to more of that 8-16 age again. The Gamecube in it's design and it's game library seemed like a good followup to the consoles of previous generations; it seemed to market itself more to the teenage customers that played the earlier consoles as children. whereas the wii has taken a step back to try and pick and choose the audiences it wants; a fresh batch of young blood, and the old loyal customer base. and this is where they have shot themselves in the foot, because anyone who was partial to nintendo at a young age will have an evolved taste in games, as well as the hardware and software builds of the consoles they play it on. and the new generation won't be familiar with all these decades-old characters they are rehashing and making references to older games on previous systems. Now with the wii-u we see another bit of the same thing, terrible third party support, hardware that at best only catches up to current standards, and another controller idea based around niche appeal.

this is why people are angry at nintendo. do we still like mario, zelda, samus, fox, and all the rest of the characters we grew up with? of course. but i think people still want those games, they just dont want to have to buy into nintendo's gimmicky bullshit these days to have to play them. i think people want nintendo to fail so they can become like Sega, a former console maker turned software-only company, which we can see and play on all systems. if nintendo goes under in the console game, than we can see super mario and metroid on sony and microsoft systems, and then we can all play our favourite nostalgic characters without having to spend hundreds of extra dollars for pointless gimmicks. i think the wii-u is nintendo's last gasp at the console market personally.
 

Holythirteen

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Mar 1, 2013
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Mmmmm... Nintendo hate... I can feel it... so pure...

The audience of the Wii is very absent from these forums, I assume that only a small minority of Nintendo's consumers participate in forum discussion at all. That is the source of this Bile you perceive, we hate them for being popular mostly, and coming here where most people agree with us is very soothing. I am enjoying it way more than I should, but I should probably grow up and deal with the fact that they are going to earn tonnes of money no matter how much I disagree with their decisions.

I find it a bit telling that the Nintendo champions in this thread are being so defensive, I think it's safe to assume that each one has their own grievances with Nintendo's decisions. Search your feelings... you know it's true. You crazy Nintendogs may be a bit of a minority in this corner of the internet, but come on now, you wouldn't be here in this forum if you didn't share quite a bit in common with the guys you are arguing with. You're here to argue with others about what makes your games awesome, most gamers I know in real life aren't even that hardcore, I can't believe you don't see where we're coming from.

Please understand me, I used to love Nintendo, but motion controls and gimmicks just didn't float my boat, and I tried REALLY hard to like them. If they released a Zelda game the same quality as ocarina of time or majora's mask or wind waker and let me play it with a gamepad with no gimmicks I would've been their boy again, one hundred percent, but I guess making me happy wasn't making them enough money. I like to think all Nintendo fans will go through this eventually, they are trying to convince themselves that they are having fun, and they don't want to hear people pour hate on Nintendo because it's distracting. I could've forgiven awkward motion controls just so I could enjoy the old games I loved again, but it just got worse with every game... Skyward Sword... then... Metroid: Other M...

I loved Samus Aran, I chose her as my personal hero when I was just getting into games, she was a female protagonist created when such a thing was almost unheard of. I found myself really admiring her, and I wondered what direction Nintendo was going with her. I could ignore the nudity-reward aspect of the Metroid series, I didn't put much thought into it back then. Then they made her into a T&A pinup. Huh, well I guess that's... just a male thing they are taking advantage of... They should try to make it popular I guess... And when they decided to make a game that finally gave her a meaningful story, they gave it to the misogynists who made Dead or Alive. Inexcusable. I really convinced myself that she was some sort of social commentary on how women were true equals to men. But to Nintendo she was just cash cow number 4. My bad.

I hate Nintendo because Nintendo doesn't want me, plain and simple. And by ignoring me they are being as successful as they want to be. I say let the hate flow.