Why are modern consoles bad?

[WeepingAngels]

Ok I don't remember it that way but I am not interested in pitting PS3 against PS4. My point is that mandatory installs on any system is not ideal. Now if you don't care about mandatory installs, good for you but I am glad Nintendo is moving away from optical discs and I hope both Sony and Microsoft do so too.

I don't really care about installs as long as they happen under-the-hood, which the PS3 did not do. The main point the TC made in the opening post is that modern consoles aren't plug-n-play which is not true for the PS4 and that's the point of the topic. I don't see how cartridges/sd memory are going to even come close to the price point of a disc.

Then why did you respond to me instead of the OP, I never mentioned plug n play. I think it's clear you don't care about installs and it should be clear that I do for two reasons, because it's time consuming (in most cases) and because it takes up hard drive space and you will eventually find yourself deciding which games to delete to make room for more. Either that or you will go spend extra to buy a bigger hard drive but then, upgrading a piece of hardware takes the simplicity out of consoles.

I think that consoles cannot stay on this path. This is the path where they become weak PC's.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I absolutely can't fault you there. The one current console that almost gets this right is the Wii U which does have split-screen/couch co-op (on first and second party games) and, a lot of games that you can just pop into the box and play. I really want to want a couple of consoles and a PC but while the PC is inaccessible to me because of cost, what's keeping me from getting a PS4 is the software. At this point the number of games I want that I can only get on that console can be counted on one of my hands (Bloodbourn, inFamous: Second Son, Doom and, Final Fantasy XV). The other major games I want to play this generation have also been released on the PS3, Xbox 360 or, Wii U...thus I don't consider them to be Next Gen (a term I've continued using for the PS4 and Xbone despite their updated versions already having been announced). The only real blind-spot here for me was the Wii U which I thought would be able to keep up with new releases on other consoles (it didn't) and provide new Nintendo games (it kinda did). I'm looking forward to the Nintendo Switch at the moment but when it comes to this generation of gaming it feels like for me at least, the only way to go that makes sense is to just get a Retron V and a 3DS. If you're going to spend this generation picking up re-releases of games from the previous generation or two (which may or may not even work) you might as well spend a lot less and get hardware that can run really old games. The 3DS is just a solid handheld and its capable of running DS games which is a really damn solid handheld.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Then why did you respond to me instead of the OP, I never mentioned plug n play. I think it's clear you don't care about installs and it should be clear that I do for two reasons, because it's time consuming (in most cases) and because it takes up hard drive space and you will eventually find yourself deciding which games to delete to make room for more. Either that or you will go spend extra to buy a bigger hard drive but then, upgrading a piece of hardware takes the simplicity out of consoles.

I think that consoles cannot stay on this path. This is the path where they become weak PC's.

Yeah, you did mention plug-n-play:

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

You were very factually wrong, which is why I responded. The only console gen that had issues with plug-n-play was last-gen due to it being the 1st console gen with hard drives so a few issues with that is to be expected. PS4 fixed all those issues and every PS4 game I've popped in has been playable in a couple minutes at worst.

Consoles have always been PCs, I never got that argument of them being weaker PCs as they always were. The point of the console is that it has the same hardware so issues are much less likely to crop up, you can pop in a game and play, and you can play comfortably on your couch with a controller. Being weaker graphically doesn't matter much as graphics don't make a game and current gen has had the weakest games yet the best graphics.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Then why did you respond to me instead of the OP, I never mentioned plug n play. I think it's clear you don't care about installs and it should be clear that I do for two reasons, because it's time consuming (in most cases) and because it takes up hard drive space and you will eventually find yourself deciding which games to delete to make room for more. Either that or you will go spend extra to buy a bigger hard drive but then, upgrading a piece of hardware takes the simplicity out of consoles.

I think that consoles cannot stay on this path. This is the path where they become weak PC's.

Yeah, you did mention plug-n-play:

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

You were very factually wrong, which is why I responded. The only console gen that had issues with plug-n-play was last-gen due to it being the 1st console gen with hard drives so a few issues with that is to be expected. PS4 fixed all those issues and every PS4 game I've popped in has been playable in a couple minutes at worst.

Consoles have always been PCs, I never got that argument of them being weaker PCs as they always were. The point of the console is that it has the same hardware so issues are much less likely to crop up, you can pop in a game and play, and you can play comfortably on your couch with a controller. Being weaker graphically doesn't matter much as graphics don't make a game and current gen has had the weakest games yet the best graphics.

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

And, it's just GAMING by the way, and I'll enjoy it just the same as any other GAMER.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

And, it's just GAMING by the way, and I'll enjoy it just the same as any other GAMER.

It's actually more like this. I gave you my opinion and don't care to argue with you about how godly the PS4 is. You really just annoy me and if I were to tell you that I am wrong, it would be to shut you up.

So....I am wrong and my opinion hasn't changed.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

And, it's just GAMING by the way, and I'll enjoy it just the same as any other GAMER.

It's actually more like this. I gave you my opinion and don't care to argue with you about how godly the PS4 is. You really just annoy me and if I were to tell you that I am wrong, it would be to shut you up.

So....I am wrong and my opinion hasn't changed.

LMAO, it has nothing to do with how good the PS4 is, it was simply to state the PS4 works like a console is supposed to, that was all. I guess doing what you are supposed to is considered "godly" according to you. And PS4 is worse than the PS3 due to lack of games (this whole generation has had nothing great to play). GAMES are what matter, nothing else. I don't know how you concluded I'm some sorta PS4 fanboy trying to force upon how awesome the PS4 is.

 

[Strelok]

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

Not sure WeepingAngels has that problem, perhaps it's you with the inability to see the massive flaws in consoles? Or is the issue that you can't let go of the decrepit dinosaur that is console gaming? Jim Sterling has a video for you posted on October 17th hard to believe you are missing these massive holes in your plug and play "experience" on PS4, unless of course you are not telling the truth... Hmmmmm

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I still think gaming trends in general are what fucked games nowadays. PC's used to have LAN, they just don't anymore. Closest thing (on select few games) you can get to it is two Steam machines who play together as if they were on LAN, but you still need to be online.

Microtransactions, DRM, season passes exist across all platforms and are what have fucked it for me. I was going along fine with Steam, until the day I tried to purchase and play something on the Windows Store. Absolute fucking nightmare, and one I wouldn't care to repeat ever again in my life.

I still think the pros and cons of PC and console weigh each other out just fine. I've stayed with my PC this generation so far, and have no intention of moving over yet, but that's a personal choice. Gears 4 brought back split screen, btw. I was almost about to buy it for PC until I got a game earlier. PC's I think have almost got it rougher nowadays, because shit gets ported so poorly. FPS locks, shoddy controls, performance drops, lazy menu implementation, it's a truly sad state of affairs, especially when you see that the majority of these can be fixed within a short amount of time by one individual.

I'm thinking PC users have it tougher give the overall scheme of things, but I'm only speaking from my own POV which is a current PC only player (will definitely pick up a PS4 later down the track though, loosely considering XBONE and Switch at some point)

 

[RedDeadFred]

I don't know if they're bad.... they're just not what they used to be and it seems that was pretty inevitable. If you want something easier and cheaper (although definitely not in the long run) than a PC, you get one of the consoles.

For me, the only real reason to own one would be to reap the exclusives. So far, only one game from this generation is even close to being a system seller for me and that's Bloodborne (note how I said "for me" -your opinion may differ and that's fine). Sadly, one game is not nearly enough for me to justify the purchase.

 

[WeepingAngels]

The lack of consoles would also attract massive numbers of players to PC, with nowhere else to go. They'll learn that it's really not complicated and invite their friends.

...or they will just find another hobby. Chances are they have played enough shooters and open world RPG's to last them a few years.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

Not sure WeepingAngels has that problem, perhaps it's you with the inability to see the massive flaws in consoles? Or is the issue that you can't let go of the decrepit dinosaur that is console gaming? Jim Sterling has a video for you posted on October 17th hard to believe you are missing these massive holes in your plug and play "experience" on PS4, unless of course you are not telling the truth... Hmmmmm

Sounds like that's a Mafia 3 problem and not a PS4 problem. I said putting in a DISC and playing on PS4 takes at most 2 minutes to play, I put in Watch Dogs way back and was playing right away and same goes for every other game disc I've put in. I've never had an issue downloading games as I click download, put the system in standby, and it'll be ready to play next time I turn on the PS4. Same thing with patches, they automatically download in the background in standby and it'll be downloaded and installed before I even turn the system on. And unless you're playing multiplayer, you don't need patches downloaded and installed to play. Also, one of main positives of console gaming is getting a disc and being able to sell it when you're done with the game. I don't download any games off PSN unless they are free or very heavily discounted. I don't have to wait for a Steam sale to get a game cheap as I can buy Day 1 and sell after completing the game. Of course, PC is going to be better at digital downloads as that's been the standard on PC for quite some time now. Obviously, that's not an excuse for digital downloads not being as good as they should be. For the most part, the PS4 makes the whole process as automatic and hassle free as it can be because face it, we're not going back to games being tested like they were in the PS2 era and prior; you think Bethesda is ever going to release a game that doesn't need patches? I'm no fanboy of the PlayStation as the PS3 was HORRIBLE with mandatory installs and game updates not letting you do anything as you wait, you can't even play music on PS3 as a patch downloads. However, PS4 fixed just about everything.

Jim Sterling, as much as I like him, was wrong with quite a few things stating stuff like you need to download patches and install the game before playing, which is untrue at least for the PS4.

 

[stroopwafel]

Good riddance. AAA is going down the crapper. Most of the best games I played the last several years were smaller or popular enough without the other platforms (select Valve titles). At this point, AAA can die for all I care. I prefer something between AAA and indie.

Well, 'AAA' is kind of an umbrella term for every game that requires huge teams and budgets to make. This doesn't just include CoD or Fifa or Madden but also games like Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Witcher 3, Last of Us etc. I don't think those games can be replaced by indie titles and as such necessitate corporate investment(will you not go the kickstarter route which has also proven to not really work). Companies having a vested interest in products and services to sell will remain the driving force in game development. And as such consoles will remain pivotal.

Something between AAA and indie would be the middle-market so prevalent during the PS2 era. Unfortunately this disappeared almost entirely during the PS3/X360 era b/c they couldn't keep up with the increase in budget. Just look how a game gets hammered when it doesn't have the production values of say GTA5; a game that had hundreds of people working on it with 200+ million budget. This is now the standard people have come to expect. Logically having such high financial risks decreases the amount of smaller developers and have big publishers demand to put out the same stuff that sells well year after year(CoD, Battlefield, Ass Creed, Fifa etc.) Though, you can wonder, why did these smaller publishers go out of business(Rebellion, THQ etc) and not just give up on consoles and develop solely for PC instead? Simple: lack of market share and corporate partnerships.

Modern consoles sell by the shitload which demonstrates it's consumer demand. So, consoles definitely won't go out of business b/c of lack of interest. I can only see more publishers dropping consoles b/c of the high risk/long investment model of AAA game-development when companies can make a much easier buck with crap for mobile phones or other low-risk venues with much quicker returns.

 

[MHR]

Consoles have become weak-ass closed-platform PCs. Almost all of the old console advantages are gone, and consoles are actually hurting the market with exclusives and graphical downgrades for port parity.

 

[Joccaren]

I've never had an issue downloading games as I click download, put the system in standby, and it'll be ready to play next time I turn on the PS4. Same thing with patches, they automatically download in the background in standby and it'll be downloaded and installed before I even turn the system on. And unless you're playing multiplayer, you don't need patches downloaded and installed to play.

Funnily enough, you can do the same thing on PC. Just leave my PC there, and Steam'll automatically download and install all necessary updates. I've stopped Windows from doing that because I want to restart when I want to restart, not when Windows tells me to, but it can be automated if you're not as much of a power user as I am. Same goes for driver updates... Everything. Its all automated. Funnily enough, if you can program a console to do it, some bright spark will figure out its as easy, or easier, to make a PC do it too.

And that is a lot of the point of this thread. Consoles have started to move away from their strengths - requiring installs and patches, even if its while you're doing something else, needing hardware upgrades [Whether it be harddrives, or the new One S/Scorpio/PS4 Pro], the certainty of games working on them...
Its all changing. Its not fully gone yet, but compare a modern console to the PS1. I boot up my PS1, or more often my N64, and the game is just there playing. Right from the start. I don't have to worry about installing while the PS1 is idle. I just plug in a disk, and away she goes. I barely have to worry about harddrives, as there isn't one. The N64 didn't even have a memory card. The games just worked. They had to or they wouldn't sell at all.

Modern consoles are a whole lot more complicated than that. Funnily enough, they now function near identically to PCs - who at that time required a bit of fiddling around with drivers every now and then, and had a number of hardware incompatibility issues that could crop up, while being outrageously expensive, and big and loud. These days? Problems are few and far between, and when they exist its for the same reason as they exist on consoles; devs just rushing out a game without putting actual effort into it knowing they can patch it later. The biggest issues on PC these days, are that a lot of the AAA games are gimped so they'll run on consoles, and be comparable to them on the PC. Locked framerates and resolutions, shitty texture qualities, poor control schemes and overall laziness in ports.

Otherwise, I could sit a small cased computer built for gaming next to my TV, plug it in, Bluetooth wireless console controllers, and use it like a console. That would require a little bit more setup than using it like a PC, but even that's disappearing as companies like Steam start working to make it even easier than before.

Basically, PCs get easier and easier to use. Consoles are slowly getting harder and harder. There will come a day, seemingly sooner rather than later, where the last vestiges of difference disappear, at least if they continue along current trend lines. When that happens, where will that leave consoles themselves?

 

[WeepingAngels]

Basically, PCs get easier and easier to use. Consoles are slowly getting harder and harder. There will come a day, seemingly sooner rather than later, where the last vestiges of difference disappear, at least if they continue along current trend lines. When that happens, where will that leave consoles themselves?

They either need to follow Nintendo's path of using cartridges with no installation or they will become obsolete. They cannot out-PC the PC. I suspect that Sony and Microsoft will not continue with discs next generation if they make it to the next generation given that they might just adopt the never-ending hardware refresh model. If they do stick with discs they better stop with these expensive yet small HDD's.

I have always wondered why people have embraced digital distribution on consoles when they have a choice. Consider this, when I buy a physical game I need not worry about supplying my own storage which is money out of my pocket if I decide to put a decent sized HDD in there. In many cases physical is cheaper even on day 1 and cheaper still when you consider the non existent storage cost.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Funnily enough, you can do the same thing on PC. Just leave my PC there, and Steam'll automatically download and install all necessary updates. I've stopped Windows from doing that because I want to restart when I want to restart, not when Windows tells me to, but it can be automated if you're not as much of a power user as I am. Same goes for driver updates... Everything. Its all automated. Funnily enough, if you can program a console to do it, some bright spark will figure out its as easy, or easier, to make a PC do it too.

And that is a lot of the point of this thread. Consoles have started to move away from their strengths - requiring installs and patches, even if its while you're doing something else, needing hardware upgrades [Whether it be harddrives, or the new One S/Scorpio/PS4 Pro], the certainty of games working on them...
Its all changing. Its not fully gone yet, but compare a modern console to the PS1. I boot up my PS1, or more often my N64, and the game is just there playing. Right from the start. I don't have to worry about installing while the PS1 is idle. I just plug in a disk, and away she goes. I barely have to worry about harddrives, as there isn't one. The N64 didn't even have a memory card. The games just worked. They had to or they wouldn't sell at all.

Modern consoles are a whole lot more complicated than that. Funnily enough, they now function near identically to PCs - who at that time required a bit of fiddling around with drivers every now and then, and had a number of hardware incompatibility issues that could crop up, while being outrageously expensive, and big and loud. These days? Problems are few and far between, and when they exist its for the same reason as they exist on consoles; devs just rushing out a game without putting actual effort into it knowing they can patch it later. The biggest issues on PC these days, are that a lot of the AAA games are gimped so they'll run on consoles, and be comparable to them on the PC. Locked framerates and resolutions, shitty texture qualities, poor control schemes and overall laziness in ports.

Otherwise, I could sit a small cased computer built for gaming next to my TV, plug it in, Bluetooth wireless console controllers, and use it like a console. That would require a little bit more setup than using it like a PC, but even that's disappearing as companies like Steam start working to make it even easier than before.

Basically, PCs get easier and easier to use. Consoles are slowly getting harder and harder. There will come a day, seemingly sooner rather than later, where the last vestiges of difference disappear, at least if they continue along current trend lines. When that happens, where will that leave consoles themselves?

The PC is still way way harder to automate everything. First of all, you have to deal with Windows and everything else with a computer. I know it's not much as I'm a PC tech but the average person isn't going to do it. Consoles are by far the easiest way of playing games on a TV with a controller on a couch. With all this talk HERE about consoles being weak PCs that basically have no reason to exist anymore, you'd think PC gaming was about to totally take over. You all fail to notice that games sell so much more on consoles because the average person prefers playing on a console. Just look at Witcher 3 which sold far more on consoles and it's a series that originated on PC. This forum or any game forum is not at all the voice of the majority. Assuming the average consumer knew how to make a PC into a console basically, they'd have to have 2 computers then, 1 for normal computer stuff and 1 to put next to the TV for gaming as you're not going to have people moving their computers back and forth from desk to living room. It's not gonna happen. Just like why so many people buy FireSticks instead wirelessly connecting the computer to their Smart TV. Consoles are here to stay for quite some time as there's such a huge gap between console game sales and PC game sales. That gap may indeed get smaller but it will take quite a lot of time.

If they do stick with discs they better stop with these expensive yet small HDD's.

In what world do you live in where laptop HDs are expensive?

 

[WeepingAngels]

In what world do you live in where laptop HDs are expensive?

In a world where I don't need to buy a hard drive at all because games come on media that doesn't require installation.

I am talking about the markup that you pay for the hard drive that comes in the console (Xbox One 500gb - $249, 1 Tb - $399), which you then replace with a bigger one that costs you extra money. You are making out like a bandit!

 

[Joccaren]

The PC is still way way harder to automate everything. First of all, you have to deal with Windows and everything else with a computer. I know it's not much as I'm a PC tech but the average person isn't going to do it. Consoles are by far the easiest way of playing games on a TV with a controller on a couch. With all this talk HERE about consoles being weak PCs that basically have no reason to exist anymore, you'd think PC gaming was about to totally take over. You all fail to notice that games sell so much more on consoles because the average person prefers playing on a console. Just look at Witcher 3 which sold far more on consoles and it's a series that originated on PC. This forum or any game forum is not at all the voice of the majority. Assuming the average consumer knew how to make a PC into a console basically, they'd have to have 2 computers then, 1 for normal computer stuff and 1 to put next to the TV for gaming as you're not going to have people moving their computers back and forth from desk to living room. It's not gonna happen. Just like why so many people buy FireSticks instead wirelessly connecting the computer to their Smart TV. Consoles are here to stay for quite some time as there's such a huge gap between console game sales and PC game sales. That gap may indeed get smaller but it will take quite a lot of time.

"Deal with Windows" - you mean log in? Yeah, ok, but you can even disable a password for that.
Otherwise, Windows comes pre-installed and set up on the PC, automatic updates enabled, and you can go into your settings if you want to change that - much like with a console and their OS, which, hilariously enough, for the Xbox One IS Windows, with a paint job over the top of it, and some disabled features to make it run smoother.

So, "Dealing with Windows" ain't a thing you avoid on consoles either. Everything has an OS. Everything is trying to be an interconnected multimedia device - it needs a complex OS for all the settings you need for that, and different options on what to do.

Console vs PC is also a rather false dichotomy when looking at sales. There are 3 main platforms in the triple A space. PS, Xbox, and PC. The PC sold comparably to the other platforms, which makes sense considering there are 2 other platforms, and one PC platform. As for the average person preferring to play on console... Very debatable. There is a lot of history with the damned things. A big part of it is exclusive titles MS and Sony tie themselves to in order to sell their consoles. Another part of it is history - growing up many kids would have had parents who would buy them consoles instead of PCs, as at the time were cheaper. These days the cheaper option is starting to become just buying a laptop for your kid, which ends up playing games AND helping them with their homework that they need it for. Or hell, mobile games on the phone everyone needs these days. That's going to have a huge influence on which platforms kids are tied to when they grow up, and has a huge influence on which platforms sell more overall given the family centric nature of a lot of purchases.

Additionally, you wouldn't need two PCs to have a console and a work station. Arguably the best way of doing it would be with a laptop, which have comparable power to a console these days. That or the more advanced user could just link them up via smart cable and/or streaming management such that you could have it display on the main TV, or on your monitor, depending on what you were doing. That's a bit more advanced for your average user to effectively pull off though.

I also haven't said consoles are gone yet, or will immediately die. I've simply noted that their advantages are evaporating, and as that happens the market will slowly move away from them. They may not completely die, but they're likely to become a more niche product as PCs get smaller, faster, cheaper and easier to use, while consoles do the opposite. Its not going to be an instant change. The market rarely does that. But console's main advantages for many are starting to disappear, and they should begin to right that path and focus on their advantages, rather than trying to compete with PCs more and more like they are.