Why are modern consoles bad?

[bluegate]

The PC is still way way harder to automate everything. First of all, you have to deal with Windows and everything else with a computer. I know it's not much as I'm a PC tech but the average person isn't going to do it.

The average person is far more likely to own a computer than a gaming console.

Oh I own a computer alright, good luck getting anything post 2004 to run on it though.

A lot of people own computers, a lot of people also don't do anything besides opening internet explorer and checking Facebook with it. Having a computer doesn't mean that people know how to use it, that they would want to game on it or that it would be capable of playing games.

 

[Joccaren]

The PC is still way way harder to automate everything. First of all, you have to deal with Windows and everything else with a computer. I know it's not much as I'm a PC tech but the average person isn't going to do it.

The average person is far more likely to own a computer than a gaming console.

Oh I own a computer alright, good luck getting anything post 2004 to run on it though.

A lot of people own computers, a lot of people also don't do anything besides opening internet explorer and checking Facebook with it. Having a computer doesn't mean that people know how to use it, that they would want to game on it or that it would be capable of playing games.

Considering the argument he was refuting was that people wouldn't know how to use Windows, I think that's not an issue. If you own, and at any point, used, your computer, you know how to use Windows. And more people are like that, than can use game consoles. Windows isn't an issue. Whether you have one up to date for gaming, want to use it for gaming, or are a power user is irrelevant, as none of those are required, nor what was being refuted.

 

[Satinavian]

Something between AAA and indie would be the middle-market so prevalent during the PS2 era. Unfortunately this disappeared almost entirely during the PS3/X360 era b/c they couldn't keep up with the increase in budget. Just look how a game gets hammered when it doesn't have the production values of say GTA5; a game that had hundreds of people working on it with 200+ million budget. This is now the standard people have come to expect. Logically having such high financial risks decreases the amount of smaller developers and have big publishers demand to put out the same stuff that sells well year after year(CoD, Battlefield, Ass Creed, Fifa etc.) Though, you can wonder, why did these smaller publishers go out of business(Rebellion, THQ etc) and not just give up on consoles and develop solely for PC instead? Simple: lack of market share and corporate partnerships.

I still see many many many medium budget games on PC. They don't sell as well as the AAA titles but they don't need to to be profitable.

It is just not worth it for small developers to try to get to the console market. That is sometimes done as a port of a successful game years later but most don't bother.

 

[bluegate]

Considering the argument he was refuting was that people wouldn't know how to use Windows, I think that's not an issue. If you own, and at any point, used, your computer, you know how to use Windows.

Go and volunteer a week in tech support and you'll find out how many people "know how to use Windows". A lot of people only know how to open the two to three programs they use and are pretty much in the dark otherwise.

There is a reason that Microsoft is forcing updates, dumbing down the interface, making things more accessible and automating things, because a lot of people who own a computer don't know how to use the damned thing.

 

[Joccaren]

Considering the argument he was refuting was that people wouldn't know how to use Windows, I think that's not an issue. If you own, and at any point, used, your computer, you know how to use Windows.

Go and volunteer a week in tech support and you'll find out how many people "know how to use Windows". A lot of people only know how to open the two to three programs they use and are pretty much in the dark otherwise.

There is a reason that Microsoft is forcing updates, dumbing down the interface, making things more accessible and automating things, because a lot of people who own a computer don't know how to use the damned thing.

At the same time, these are also people who would struggle to use modern consoles with their installs and patches and such. And yes, such people do exist. If you've ever been the tech 'friend' who helps everyone with their tech problems, you'll know that. If you can use one, you can use the other these days, they really are getting quite similar. Those likely to want to play AAA games like you'd find on the console, are also unlikely to be those having trouble with basic Windows functionality. I'm sure there is some overlap, but not enough to make a case that Windows itself is so significantly harder than a console to use that it presents a serious disadvantage for the PC.

 

[Myria]

The thread title reminds me of the old "When did you stop beating your wife?" loaded question.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can turn just about anything into a religion, even, of all the damn, stupid, pathetic things, what platform they game on.

 

[KissingSunlight]

When it comes to video games, I am only concerned about games. I skipped this generations of consoles, because Xbox and PlayStation were more concerned about being entertainment centers than videogame consoles. Nintendo, well we all know what their problems are. They are just gimmicky hardware, no third party games, and milking decades old IP's.

What was the first sign for me that there is a downward of quality concerning gaming. It was when they were stop making quality solo campaigns in favor of multiplayer games. Multiplayers have their own place. However, the heart and soul of gaming are solo campaigns. Can you make a quality game that will immerse a player for 20 - 40 hours?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

In what world do you live in where laptop HDs are expensive?

In a world where I don't need to buy a hard drive at all because games come on media that doesn't require installation.

I am talking about the markup that you pay for the hard drive that comes in the console (Xbox One 500gb - $249, 1 Tb - $399), which you then replace with a bigger one that costs you extra money. You are making out like a bandit!

Loading from optical sucks, which is why hard drives are better. Also, you're going to need a hard drive for updates because devs don't make games that release without needing updates.

Making a gaming PC at a $249 price point is going to be really hard. Replacing that 500GB HD will still cost you less than building a gaming PC and even then I still got plenty of space on my PS4 (don't get me wrong, the shitty games of this gen have contributed to that). You have ample space to keep like 10 or so games installed at any one time, which is more than I need even with a flooded market of good games that I want to play. Hell, the Wii U forces me to buy a tablet I don't want. To conclude, the price of a console (including upgrading the HD) is cheaper than building a gaming PC so I still don't get where the expensive part comes in besides for not being dumb and buying the "Pro/Elite/Whatever" version of the console.

"Deal with Windows" - you mean log in? Yeah, ok, but you can even disable a password for that.
Otherwise, Windows comes pre-installed and set up on the PC, automatic updates enabled, and you can go into your settings if you want to change that - much like with a console and their OS, which, hilariously enough, for the Xbox One IS Windows, with a paint job over the top of it, and some disabled features to make it run smoother.

So, "Dealing with Windows" ain't a thing you avoid on consoles either. Everything has an OS. Everything is trying to be an interconnected multimedia device - it needs a complex OS for all the settings you need for that, and different options on what to do.

Console vs PC is also a rather false dichotomy when looking at sales. There are 3 main platforms in the triple A space. PS, Xbox, and PC. The PC sold comparably to the other platforms, which makes sense considering there are 2 other platforms, and one PC platform. As for the average person preferring to play on console... Very debatable. There is a lot of history with the damned things. A big part of it is exclusive titles MS and Sony tie themselves to in order to sell their consoles. Another part of it is history - growing up many kids would have had parents who would buy them consoles instead of PCs, as at the time were cheaper. These days the cheaper option is starting to become just buying a laptop for your kid, which ends up playing games AND helping them with their homework that they need it for. Or hell, mobile games on the phone everyone needs these days. That's going to have a huge influence on which platforms kids are tied to when they grow up, and has a huge influence on which platforms sell more overall given the family centric nature of a lot of purchases.

Additionally, you wouldn't need two PCs to have a console and a work station. Arguably the best way of doing it would be with a laptop, which have comparable power to a console these days. That or the more advanced user could just link them up via smart cable and/or streaming management such that you could have it display on the main TV, or on your monitor, depending on what you were doing. That's a bit more advanced for your average user to effectively pull off though.

I also haven't said consoles are gone yet, or will immediately die. I've simply noted that their advantages are evaporating, and as that happens the market will slowly move away from them. They may not completely die, but they're likely to become a more niche product as PCs get smaller, faster, cheaper and easier to use, while consoles do the opposite. Its not going to be an instant change. The market rarely does that. But console's main advantages for many are starting to disappear, and they should begin to right that path and focus on their advantages, rather than trying to compete with PCs more and more like they are.

Dealing with Windows isn't just signing in; it's doing everything else like changing a slew of settings, having a firewall, having a virus/spyware cleaner, updating other programs, etc. So many things update on a PC that an update can easily break something else, which is why I have nothing update automatically and I only update if something isn't working properly. I even use a over 5 year old firewall because I don't like any of the new ones I've tried as they don't allow complete control over which programs have internet access. Just think about the percentage of users that can operate a PC without any anti-virus/spyware software like I do, it would probably be a month at most until their PC is bogged down with spyware. I've literally never had anyone ask me for help with their console outside of a hardware failure, which I've fixed a friend's PS3. Nobody has an issue playing their games on a console; a game's options is more complex than any console OS from the user's point of view. The console advantage may be evaporating/evaporated for advanced users but not the normal users at all. I would agree if consoles got worse than the PS3 as I definitely feel people got aggravated waiting on updates/installs to play their games, but that has been fixed.

Laptops suck at gaming, that is not going to be the solution for an average person wanting both computing and gaming. I think new i3 laptops retail at around $400 and that's with onboard graphics mind you. Getting a decently specced laptop for gaming purposes is probably going to be around $800 (just ballpark figures BTW); at least an i5 with a dedicated GPU. To me, high specced laptops are on their way out, really only people that need power for certain work applications need and want such laptops. The average person is more interested in smaller and mobile devices like say Surfaces, Yogas, etc. if they even want something with a keyboard.

Witcher 3, a PC series that had little prior console exposure sold more on PS4 than PC. I hate to see how much more a very popular game series like GTA sold on PC vs console. Yeah, there's 3 main platforms but it IS console vs PC. If there was only say the PC and PS4, you actually the people that did play Witcher 3 on Xbone would've played it on PC over PS4? Come on, the vast majority of those sales would've transferred over to PS4 if there was no Xbone and the split would've still been 70/30 in favor of console. The console market would barely dwindle if you removed either the PS4 or Xbone.

The average person is far more likely to own a computer than a gaming console.

The average gamer that plays say Skyrim, Call of Duty, GTA, etc. plays on a console vs a PC. It doesn't matter how many more people own PCs, it matters have many people prefer PC gaming over console gaming. I own a PC but rarely game on it.

Uncharted and Max Payne 3 have terrible TPS controls

I think you said this to me before, months ago, and I still disagree. Max Payne 3 is Rockstar's best game and a better third-person shooter than most. Mechanically, it trumps Uncharted. I love the way Max aims his guns no matter which way he's turned, making shooting instantaneous. It's something other third-person shooters should aspire to. The zoomed in over the shoulder camera in other games is much more limiting.

We probably did as I hate Max Payne 3 from controls to gameplay to story to characters with a passion. Firstly, there's just something "wrong" with how movement and aiming feels in Rockstar's games. I always feel so sluggish whether it's MP3, RDR, GTA. I'm fine with Max in MP3 not moving super quick (because he's old and not in the best of shape), but the main problem is that Max controls so mechanically. That crouch/prone is so laggy and completely unusable. The roll just doesn't feel right. When you go prone from shoot-dodging or last stand, you have to stand up first to take cover (which usually results in getting hit) and that makes no sense. Even if you are quite skilled with shoot-dodging and landing behind cover, you're still stuck getting shot as Max stands straight up. The shoulder-swap is poorly mapped to the d-pad thus taking your thumb off the left stick causing movement to stop, not good. The weapon swap system is horrible with having to go to the radial wheel to switch weapons, a simple tap of the button to switch to last used weapon is needed. You can't even crouch on cover in MP3; I remember that office room shootout where a top part of cover would get destroyed leaving Max's head exposed and I couldn't even crouch on the cover to lower Max's head, even Metal Gear Solid 1 on PS1 let you do that. Even getting off that piece of cover then re-sticking, Max would take cover as if the cover was intact leaving his head exposed. Uncharted is definitely controls more fluidly, MP3 may be more mechanically sound, but that really doesn't say much as Uncharted lacked a camera sensitivity slider until the 4th game and I guess I see why because that motion blur to completely ridiculous in Uncharted 4 even just moving the camera inches.

It don't get how Max being able to shoot instantaneously in any direction is a unique feature for MP3. Any decent TPS, you can shoot in any direction instantaneously as well from Metal Gear Solid to Ghost Recon to Vanquish. Most TPSs don't have too much of a zoomed in camera to where it becomes a hindrance.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I like how 'modern consoles" consist almost entirely of the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One. Or at least, I haven't had either of those problems with the WiiU.

As for the price of games: $60 AAA games are undercosted. If prices changed to count for inflation alone, we'd be paying more than $60, let alone if we accounted for how much money and development time goes into AAA games these days. And I'm not even a big fan of the AAA game space.

That may seem reasonable to you, but I live in Canada where many games are upwards of $80 and frankly FUCK THAT! The AAA industry can go fuck itself.

 

[Joccaren]

Dealing with Windows isn't just signing in; it's doing everything else like changing a slew of settings, having a firewall, having a virus/spyware cleaner, updating other programs, etc. So many things update on a PC that an update can easily break something else, which is why I have nothing update automatically and I only update if something isn't working properly. I even use a over 5 year old firewall because I don't like any of the new ones I've tried as they don't allow complete control over which programs have internet access. Just think about the percentage of users that can operate a PC without any anti-virus/spyware software like I do, it would probably be a month at most until their PC is bogged down with spyware.

In my experience, not really. Having an upgraded firewall is optional, and to be honest these days Adblock is doing away with the need to have one by blocking the biggest source of spyware to your PC - shitty ads [No, not advocating its use on the Escapist]. On top of that, Windows comes with a Firewall, even if it isn't something a power user would actually like for all its control options. Changing a slew of settings isn't really something most users will do, or need to. Updating other programs also doesn't NEED to happen, its something you do if you want the update. Updates to other programs usually don't break other programs. The only time I've seen this happen is with shitty drivers, or Windows updates themselves - and lets not pretend consoles haven't had their firmware updates that have fucked things over from time to time.

Basically, if someone has a computer, and want to use it for gaming, Windows isn't going to be a barrier to them any more than an OS on your console it. If they want to be a power user, sure. But I thought the idea here was we were going for plug and play?

I've literally never had anyone ask me for help with their console outside of a hardware failure, which I've fixed a friend's PS3. Nobody has an issue playing their games on a console; a game's options is more complex than any console OS from the user's point of view. The console advantage may be evaporating/evaporated for advanced users but not the normal users at all. I would agree if consoles got worse than the PS3 as I definitely feel people got aggravated waiting on updates/installs to play their games, but that has been fixed.

Well, lucky you. I've had people struggling to set up parental controls, not knowing how to change their settings, confused about what this new menu is and why don't I just insert the disk and the game is playing... Basically, "Why is my console now a computer?" has been something I've had to deal with for the same sorts of people you're talking about not understanding Windows. They aren't any better on a console.
A game's options don't even get opened up, and automatically set themselves, unless a user WANTS to mess around with them - where its on the user, not the platform, for trying to fuck around with settings. And its not like there is no need for installs/updates on the PS4, and having to wait a while to play games. As you've said, you just automate it. The problem still exists, you just work around it as best you're able.

Laptops suck at gaming, that is not going to be the solution for an average person wanting both computing and gaming. I think new i3 laptops retail at around $400 and that's with onboard graphics mind you. Getting a decently specced laptop for gaming purposes is probably going to be around $800 (just ballpark figures BTW); at least an i5 with a dedicated GPU. To me, high specced laptops are on their way out, really only people that need power for certain work applications need and want such laptops. The average person is more interested in smaller and mobile devices like say Surfaces, Yogas, etc. if they even want something with a keyboard.

Your mistake is thinking you need to max out your games on Ultra settings to compete with consoles. You don't. Consoles suck at gaming. You don't need a lot to match them in power, and while you'll doubtless pay a little more than for a console [I've seen some pretty decent laptops at the $600 range around here], you're also gaining something completely portable, and capable of performing your work needs. Laptop vs Console pricing is also a bit of a false dichotomy, again, because you'd still need that computer to do your work if you brought the console. Its Console + Work PC vs Laptop pricing, which works a lot more in the laptop's favour, I think you'll find.

Witcher 3, a PC series that had little prior console exposure sold more on PS4 than PC. I hate to see how much more a very popular game series like GTA sold on PC vs console. Yeah, there's 3 main platforms but it IS console vs PC. If there was only say the PC and PS4, you actually the people that did play Witcher 3 on Xbone would've played it on PC over PS4? Come on, the vast majority of those sales would've transferred over to PS4 if there was no Xbone and the split would've still been 70/30 in favor of console. The console market would barely dwindle if you removed either the PS4 or Xbone.

Well, for the case of GTA V, the fact it was available on PS3/X360 long before it was available on PC probably plays into it a bit.

But, if we're looking at 'breaking the trend' for a release, Dark Souls. The series has sold 40% of its copies on PC, despite releasing a buggy, shitty version years after it was released on PS3 and Xbox for the first title, and being a console originating series. Funny how that works.

As for people moving over to PS4, I think you're greatly overestimating that. Around the time of the Xbox One fiasco, I had a lot of people asking me to design them gaming PCs, as they weren't interested in the Xbone any more, and the only reason they played on it rather than the PC was that all their friends played on it - and their friends no longer wanted to play on it. Its not that people prefer consoles to PC, as I said, a lot of it has to do with the history of the platform, and the brand loyalty its built up over the years. If either MS or Sony evaporated, I think you'd see a lot of people leave the core gaming market in general, a bunch head to PC, and a bunch to head to the other console. It wouldn't be nearly as one sided as you seem to think.

 

[SAMAS]

Plug-in-and-play: This is now almost gone. Back in the day, you could just pop in a disc/cartridge and get right to playing it, but due to Day 1 patches and mandatory installs, this is now pretty much a thing of the past. Further, with the advent of more and more frequent console hardware releases, it looks like console games will soon be getting system requirements. Wheee!

What are you talking about, the PS4 fixed just about everything wrong with the PS3. You put in a PS4 disc and you're playing with at most only a couple minutes of prep time as the vast majority of the game installs while playing. You don't have to download any patches to play and any patches can be downloaded while playing. Whereas with the PS3, you'd have to wait for the entire install to finish to play and if you wanted to download a patch/update, you literally couldn't do anything with your PS3 (not even play music) while you downloaded the update. The PS4 is a much better console than the PS3 ever was. Now, the Xbone is a completely different story. I used to test them at work and you had to update the console (assuming it was new) before doing anything, then some games took forever to be playable as I remember trying to load up a CoD game just to test the controller and it would have to download/install stuff that took forever, I recall Madden being a game that you can play rather quickly.

I think he means the loading time, installation time, and patch time. Mafia 3, for example, was pretty infamous for having an install time that took hours. Very few people were able to play the game the same day they bought it.

 

[Geisterkarle]

Well I think one reason for all that is a point, I never understood:
Why are Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo still clinging to discs? Wouldn't cartridges be easier? "cartridges" meaning some kind of encrypted hard-drive (SSD?)? You could store all game data on it and the console would just play what you have in. You wouldn't have to install anything on the console. If there is a patch to fix bugs, it could just be stored on the cartridge too. There could also be the possibility of "blank cartridges", where you can store downloaded games.
The only "negative" point IMHO would be, that you would have to change cartridges when you want to play another game. Now you can just switch directly. But is that really that bad? Or do you have other thoughts?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I have no opinion about the controller controls for Max Payne 3, as I never play it with a controller, but it works just fine on the mouse and keyboard, which is ideal for any TPS. You never need to use the radial menu. This is where this discussion went the last time. Max Payne 3 is fluid. It's a nice mix between weight and speed, much better than their open world games. Prone is completely usable and shoot dodge makes combat much more manageable. Of course you're gonna be vulnerable as you stand up, you just had a big advantage flying through the air and are lying flat.

It don't get how Max being able to shoot instantaneously in any direction is a unique feature for MP3. Any decent TPS, you can shoot in any direction instantaneously as well from Metal Gear Solid to Ghost Recon to Vanquish. Most TPSs don't have too much of a zoomed in camera to where it becomes a hindrance.

The zoomed in over-the-shoulder cameras usually slow foot movement and greatly limit what can be seen (since there's a big body on the side of the picture). Making you hold L1/RMB before you can shoot in a third-person shooter is a waste of time, unless the game focuses more on other mechanics. Why would the character need to turn their whole body before pulling the trigger?

It takes Max like 2 seconds to go prone after pressing the button so much so that I thought there was an issue at one point because I couldn't get Max to even go prone. There's games with cover systems where you can go from prone to the piece of cover like human being can yet Max can't do that? I think the only TPS that I played where the camera was too zoomed in was a demo of Army of Two. Pretty much every TPS, you aim with the free look camera and then shoot. It's quite a come practice for online players to be running forward with the camera turned behind them so they can instantly shoot behind them. I don't recall having played a TPS where the character had to turn-around before shooting besides for maybe like Winback or Syphon Filter way back in the day.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

In my experience, not really. Having an upgraded firewall is optional, and to be honest these days Adblock is doing away with the need to have one by blocking the biggest source of spyware to your PC - shitty ads [No, not advocating its use on the Escapist]. On top of that, Windows comes with a Firewall, even if it isn't something a power user would actually like for all its control options. Changing a slew of settings isn't really something most users will do, or need to. Updating other programs also doesn't NEED to happen, its something you do if you want the update. Updates to other programs usually don't break other programs. The only time I've seen this happen is with shitty drivers, or Windows updates themselves - and lets not pretend consoles haven't had their firmware updates that have fucked things over from time to time.

Basically, if someone has a computer, and want to use it for gaming, Windows isn't going to be a barrier to them any more than an OS on your console it. If they want to be a power user, sure. But I thought the idea here was we were going for plug and play?

Well, lucky you. I've had people struggling to set up parental controls, not knowing how to change their settings, confused about what this new menu is and why don't I just insert the disk and the game is playing... Basically, "Why is my console now a computer?" has been something I've had to deal with for the same sorts of people you're talking about not understanding Windows. They aren't any better on a console.
A game's options don't even get opened up, and automatically set themselves, unless a user WANTS to mess around with them - where its on the user, not the platform, for trying to fuck around with settings. And its not like there is no need for installs/updates on the PS4, and having to wait a while to play games. As you've said, you just automate it. The problem still exists, you just work around it as best you're able.

Your mistake is thinking you need to max out your games on Ultra settings to compete with consoles. You don't. Consoles suck at gaming. You don't need a lot to match them in power, and while you'll doubtless pay a little more than for a console [I've seen some pretty decent laptops at the $600 range around here], you're also gaining something completely portable, and capable of performing your work needs. Laptop vs Console pricing is also a bit of a false dichotomy, again, because you'd still need that computer to do your work if you brought the console. Its Console + Work PC vs Laptop pricing, which works a lot more in the laptop's favour, I think you'll find.

Well, for the case of GTA V, the fact it was available on PS3/X360 long before it was available on PC probably plays into it a bit.

But, if we're looking at 'breaking the trend' for a release, Dark Souls. The series has sold 40% of its copies on PC, despite releasing a buggy, shitty version years after it was released on PS3 and Xbox for the first title, and being a console originating series. Funny how that works.

As for people moving over to PS4, I think you're greatly overestimating that. Around the time of the Xbox One fiasco, I had a lot of people asking me to design them gaming PCs, as they weren't interested in the Xbone any more, and the only reason they played on it rather than the PC was that all their friends played on it - and their friends no longer wanted to play on it. Its not that people prefer consoles to PC, as I said, a lot of it has to do with the history of the platform, and the brand loyalty its built up over the years. If either MS or Sony evaporated, I think you'd see a lot of people leave the core gaming market in general, a bunch head to PC, and a bunch to head to the other console. It wouldn't be nearly as one sided as you seem to think.

With a console, you do literally put in the disc and press X on the big picture of the game and you're playing. At least on PS4 that is the case. There is virtually no waiting on PS4 unlike PS3. I only tested some Xbones at work and I remember they were worse than PS3s with games taking forever to become playable without even being informed of what's happening (installing or downloading or both). With a computer, it's just not a box solely for gaming as you have other things to do with it. Those other things aren't hard but it's definitely more than a console.

I know you don't need to play games on Ultra settings to compete with consoles. I have an AMD A8 in my desktop without a graphics card and it's not good enough to be a gaming PC as it is right now. I'm pretty sure my desktop could run games better than an i5 laptop with onboard graphics so a laptop is not the answer to gaming. Also, a normal person can easily run everything they need on a laptop in the $300 price range. Thus, $350 (laptop) + $350 (PS4) is $700, which is rather close in price to that decent $600 laptop you mentioned. I'm betting the average person would prefer having both vs just the laptop.

People want to just put in the game and play it. I play on a console just because I don't want the hassle of PC gaming. I want my free time to be as enjoyable as possible. I don't want to be googling through forums trying to find a fix for an issue I'm having with a game, I know that's not the norm for PC games anymore but it still happens at a much higher rate than consoles. Look at Arkham City and now Skyrim remaster with the games just not working at all on PC. That only happens extremely rarely on consoles. I think only like 10% would head to PC if PS or Xbox were to no longer exist.

I think he means the loading time, installation time, and patch time. Mafia 3, for example, was pretty infamous for having an install time that took hours. Very few people were able to play the game the same day they bought it.

It seems to be more a Mafia 3 problem than PS4 problem as every disc I've put in has been playable in like 2 minutes. I know the Mafia 3 thing is for digital. I really don't buy digital but I think you can preload games and it's playable on release date without having to wait for anything. I think Mafia 3 is special case. Again, I'd never buy games digital on a console since one of the best "pros" of a console is physical media and being able to sell it. I see no reason to pay the same price for a digital copy when I'm getting less.

 

[votemarvel]

Well I think one reason for all that is a point, I never understood:
Why are Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo still clinging to discs? Wouldn't cartridges be easier? "cartridges" meaning some kind of encrypted hard-drive (SSD?)? You could store all game data on it and the console would just play what you have in. You wouldn't have to install anything on the console. If there is a patch to fix bugs, it could just be stored on the cartridge too. There could also be the possibility of "blank cartridges", where you can store downloaded games.
The only "negative" point IMHO would be, that you would have to change cartridges when you want to play another game. Now you can just switch directly. But is that really that bad? Or do you have other thoughts?

Because optical discs are far cheaper than cartridges.