Why are people so against 'feminism' in gaming?

[Lead Herring]

All I'm saying is that it's a bad idea to associate a movement with that definition, it just hurts their credibility. I'm starting to think what they need is a rebranding, a new name without all the negative connotations. I would recommend the term Radical Feminist for when your referring to the aggressive types, that way other people wont pick up that use aswell.

Erm...the term "Radical Feminism" is already in use, it refers (basically) to those feminists who desire a re-ordering of society to do away with existing gender roles.

Then I guess, only refer to them as Misandrists? I'm clearly experiencing a similar situation to the guy I was correcting, how ironic.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

You know you want the bikini. RAWR

You could make a great one piece out of a grizzly bear's butt.

I bet Bear Grylls could teach me I hear he makes them out of dead seals. Interesting man.

Spoiler: :|

 

[razelas]

\
I find it curious that men don't like women gamers being considered as special or different and then proceed to seperate us out anyway saying we are feminazi's and we want to take away thier precious gaming industry. Guys...listen...no guys really... It's one or the other.

Seriously, this. ^^

Women are gamers, Escapists accept that for the most part. But when women want to be represented more in video games, all of sudden FEMINAZISM!!

 

[Mikeyfell]

This may have been discussed before but a search of the forums didn't bring up anything that I was looking for so...

I've been asked to write about sexism in gaming and I know it's a subject that has been done to death. I want to make it as fair an argument as possible. As a girl you can probably figure out which side of the debate I'm on but I do want to know why people are so vocal AGAINST people speaking up against sexist slogans in advertising and reinforcing white male gamer stereotypes.

For example, the recent gamestation advertising campaign saying their pre-owned games were cheaper than your girlfriend. When people complained that it was offensive the minority of gamers told them to shut up and get over it. So..why are people so against gaming becoming more gender neutral and accepting of female, child and elderly gamers.

I'm not slating it, I would just like to understand the mindset a bit better to at least try and make this piece of writing fairer.

There's no sexism in gaming only lazy writers. And lonely 3D artists.

Here's an Idea: write about how all the male protagonists in gaming are either emotionless blobs of muscle who are physically incapable of doing anything that doesn't involve a gun and a bad guy, or pretentious sacks of snark who act like it's their job to make everything about them.

They don't do it because of bigotry they do it because it's easy.


And about that add "used games are cheaper than your girlfriend."
It's not sexist it's stupid. It's even funny if you've ever been on the paying end of a date.
[sarcasm]Calling it "sexist" makes all women come off as touchy and emotional.[/sarcasm]

I seriously doubt they were speaking out in favor of sexism.
More than likely they were speaking out against the idiots people who blew this dumb add out of proportion.
If anyone can claim offense at anything and get it taken down, well; there goes free speech.

A man walks into a bar. He says "Ouch!"
That joke is politically incorrect because it pokes fun at blind people.

What would it be like if no adds could use similes or metaphors any more?

"Pre-owned games! cheaper than new games..."
I get that they shouldn't alienate female gamers but that just doesn't have the same punch to it.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

"Pre-owned games! cheaper than new games..."
I get that they shouldn't alienate female gamers but that just doesn't have the same punch to it.

I think the point of the female employee was that she would get sacked if she behaived in a sexist manner so why is the advertising section exempt. I think that's a fair point.

The sexism isn't in the joke really its the inference that women don't play games, which was backed up by the guy from the company saying 'Oh lulz we are allowed to be sexist becuase women are in the minority' Guy was an ass end of story. There are plenty of ways you can sell a game without bringing sexism into it. Also Gamestation is a dive so I feel the lack of caring.

 

[Mikeyfell]

And these are contemporary western issues. Not even starting on the global ones that feminism is always relevant to such as the battle against arranged marriage, infant genital mutilation

It disturbs me that you don't classify this as a contemporary western issue.

That mostly happens in Africa and the Middle East. Neither of those places qualify as The West.

 

[angelsmash]

You know you want the bikini. RAWR

You could make a great one piece out of a grizzly bear's butt.

I bet Bear Grylls could teach me I hear he makes them out of dead seals. Interesting man.

The dude actually changed his name from Edward or something to "Bear" (I'd change my name to Dirk Jortson or Dr. Ass but I hate paperwork). He's gonna end up meeting the same fate as Steve Irwin. There was some trailer of his on Channel 4 where he was piking down the Amazon in that river with the dick-swimming fish... you really have to wonder if Nature's just bouncing back when you intentionally stick your bellend into the piranha pond.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

This is how I interpret the word based on my experience with many people calling themselves feminists, I made a point to say that it is my opinion, not fact. Nor did I ever go "Telling people what they really are"

Please explain how "interpreting" a group identity (based on anecdotal evidence no less) is different from telling people that the identity they use is incorrect.

I also tried to make it very clear that I do support equal female rights. I get the impression that this is what you're arguing for, so why with the aggression?

You support equal female rights but you think feminists are sexist women... even though feminists have done more than you could ever "support" for equal female rights? lolwut?

I get the impression that you're in a very bad mood and taking it out on the wrong person. Seriously, you're getting at me for my perception of a word? I'm not saying it's right and that that's the one and only way that the word can be interpreted, I'm just pointing out what comes to mind when I hear it said.
Perhaps I have just had bad experience with feminists, but really you are doing nothing to change my opinion.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive, but you do realize the logical disconnect when you claim to support equal female rights and then condemn feminism as a whole based on personal experience? It would be akin to me saying that I support equal treatment between colored and white people, but I think the 1960s civil rights movement was racist because my father told me he got assaulted at one of their protests because he was white.

Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe there are just as many sexist women as there are sexist men? Well that is how you are coming across to me, as a sexist woman who hates men. If I am wrong, please prove it to me. Stop with the aggression and calmly tell me why you disagree with what I've said, rather than attacking everything I say.

Again, I apologize if it seems like I'm attacking you, which is clearly not my intent. I'm used to a kind of "hardball" debate style where if I'm not careful and precise about getting a point across, my argument gets deconstructed into logical fallacies very quickly by people much smarter and older than I. What you see as attacking and insulting is just intellectual sparring to me.

With that said, you know I'm a guy right?

And in an undeniably patriarchal society such as in the US, it's highly improbable that women at brought up to believe female is the superior sex.

No I did not, I guess I was jumping to conclusions there.
I live in the UK, it's 3.42 a.m. here and I have insomnia, I am in no mood for intellectual sparring XD.
This is a misunderstanding. I do not condemn what you call feminism, I condemn what I call feminism, which is clearly two very different things.
Apparently what I'm referring to is misandrists calling themselves feminists, according to some other dude I've been talking to.
I disagree, in the UK at least, most people seem to be bought up believing they're superior to everyone else (do you have chavs in America?) I would go into this but it's an entirely different subject.

The way I see it, the vast majority of people are dickheads, who'll pick on anyone for being different. Hell, children have some of their human rights suspended for the convenience of the school they attend. I was going somewhere with this but I've forgotten, and sleep is needed. Bye.

 

[Tsaba]

It's easy,
Because, feminists and douche bags don't like female gamers. There's this stereotype that woman don't play games and I got to say, both party's are pretty guilty. I'm sure there are those woman who are, "above" gaming and don't believe women should be wasting their time on a console, and then there are the inbred retards who everyone else have touched on.

 

[razelas]

I maintain that equality is on its way.

Here's a quote you may find interesting:

Source [http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html]

We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

It's easy to say "wait" when you're not the one waiting.

I am also waiting. But what I have, and many others seem to lack, is open eyes and patience.

I can already see things changing. I will wait for this to run its course. The industry has begun to steer itself in the right direction, largely without any outside influence. Soon the "transformation" will be complete.

If you're a female, I apologize for making a rash assumption.

Patience is a virtue and all that aside, how long can you afford to wait? An article in one of my feminism class notes estimates that it will take ~270 years (can't find the article atm so I don't know the number nor the citation) for females to catch up to males in terms of pay equality on a national level in the US at the current trend. And while one can argue that the video games industry may seem rather frivolous right now, so can one argue about any entertainment industry, i.e. films, literature, theatre, etc. and yet they have undergone "transformations".

 

[Madara XIII]

I'm against any institution/idealism claiming it exists for equal rights, but desires/protects superior rights they have over their perceived betters. Plus the feminism stance against transexuals, flippin hypocrites.

But generally speaking, I'd like more bad ass female characters. Hell my cannon-run on Mass Effect is with Female Sheppard.

This here!!

Thank you for putting my thoughts into a visual representation.

 

[Vykrel]

i suppose the majority of gamers do not want the gaming industry to turn into a politically correct monster.

still, there could be more good female characters in gaming. Alyx Vance would be a good role model for that

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

@JohnMarcone.

Alot of people would call you a reactionary. I get that you don't want change but I like computer games I don't like daytime soaps that's a stereotype and I don't really appreiciate it. Where I live in the north of England I assure you sexism is rife still and we need to have a voice. I get that sexism isn't as bad as it used to be with no voting (like votes are worth much nowadays *glares at David Cameron*).

There is still a place for feminists and while they can sometimes become extreme (like most other political groups can) we still need to maintain that voice and maintain the ground we have gained so far. I'm sorry if that makes you feel threatened.

 

[kathleenb]

It's easy,
Because, feminists and douche bags don't like female gamers. There's this stereotype that woman don't play games and I got to say, both party's are pretty guilty. I'm sure there are those woman who are, "above" gaming and don't believe women should be wasting their time on a console, and then there are the inbred retards who everyone else have touched on.

And yet here I am, a feminist and a gamer. According to your logic, I should hate myself, right? Am I like one of those starburst contradictions?

Edit: Because I'm too damn tired to format properly.

 

[Madara XIII]

Maybe cause people who just accept whom and whatever anymore, get sick when they listen to the flapping of lips from a person who is a genuine jackass of their own personality try and drag things into a label battle.

The Little boys dominated gaming world. So you just ruined your own points by saying all men are immature and only gamers are male. As well like the work place will there be whining 40 years down the road women gameers hit a glass ceiling and games must have laws made to promote female advancement and protection from insulting fps screamers?

Then you have the argument "Well then there are guys when a girl talks he calls her a ***** says she's stupid ect ect." And therefore another generalized sexist comment. Because if you could see past your own gender you'd probably figure out most nonsocial gamers treat everyone like that, like shit yes, from years of Internet anonymity and just flapping his gums at his buddies. Maybe the female in question is treated like he treats his male friends, like shit. Cause he's a douche bag.

The double standard is fairly old and worn out, and sorry kids. I seen to many overly competitive FEMALES with the same mouth, the same gender slurs and the same lack of respect for anything or anyone as much as men as they phase into the gaming world.

But we pretend women are victims and have be held down, and are more civilized (which of course is just a sexist statement against men)

But after playing HALO in a gaming room on a military base and hearing how the female marines act... yeah even worse than the guys are and ten times as vulgar. This is just another hey look at me help help I'm being repressed whine. Because ladies... if you can't take the trash talk, it's not personal, or what's between your legs why the prepub xbox screamer is getting at. It's trolling to tick you off, and hope you make mistakes. Which is now the rules of the internet and they aren't changing for you.

Get equal...cause your not getting treated special anymore. Even more so in the video game world.

YEEEEEEEEEEES!!! The double standard is older and worn more than a pair of 20 year old skivvies.....Sorry for that mental image.

A statement I can believe in. GET EQUAL! Now if only people were willing to accept that a whole.

Oh btw you get Win Music my fellow escapist

<youtube=kG16pfDZ3CM>

 

[Venereus]

Besides, women get their panties in a twist over damn near every female character that is hotter than they will ever be. How many times you heard a dude ***** because the male protagonist is a walking slab of muscle instead of a glasses wearing, unkempt, cheeto covered, fat bastard?

In short. Males have to deal with bullshit in games too. We just whine less.

This post is pure awesome. Someone had the balls to put it out there. I agree.

I concur!

True that! But it's not just different amounts of whining. When it comes to idealized gender images, the social pressure on women is stronger, more widespread and comes in many more shapes than on men.

I don't necessarily think it's stronger. How many men take steroids to achieve the modern ideal of the "perfect" male body?

I think women just get more media coverage. That might sound like a radical opinion, but it's something I hold firm to. Most of my friends are male, and most of them have more self-esteem issues than I do. Two of my male friends are models, and still think they need to diet, smoke and exercise more than is humanly possible to look good.

How many men take steroids to achieve the modern ideal of the "perfect" male body? Not that many. What I was thinking when I said stronger was the fact that females enforce it on themselves and their peers more than men do.

Men taking steroids is just as extreme as women with anorexia, and I think the numbers will equal out. I don't believe for a second that we women are under more pressure than men.

I'd persue this further but we'd be going off-topic. Suffice to say, Anorexia is recognized as a mental illness with a low prevalence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa#Epidemiology), while steroids use is considered a legit 'sane' practice, with it's extremist whackos, it's true, but that's how it is with everything a considerable number of people do. On top of that, while I agree with sociocultural theories about the causes of Anorexia, there are other theories that don't consider social pressure much, and that may also be in the right. Also, there are anorexic men, and steroid using/abusing women. So, overall, I doubt the numbers will even out, and even if they did, I don't think it'd be a good indicator of how much pressure we are under.