Why are people so against 'feminism' in gaming?

[agrajagthetesty]

WOMEN ARE NOT HARD DONE BY IN COMPUTER GAMES. IF YOU TAKE OFF THE FEMINIST BLINDERS FOR A SECOND, YOU'LL NOTICE ALMOST ALL CHARACTERS IN COMPUTER GAMES ARE UNLIKABLE 2D CHARACTURES, OR DID YOU JUST THINK THAT ALL MEN WANTED TO RUN AROUND PLAYING CHARACTERS WHO LOOK LIKE A BRICK SHIT HOUSE & SPROUTING OFF GRITTY "I'M GOING TO KILL YOUR INTENSTINES WITH A SPORK" ONE LINERS?

Been meaning to say something along these lines for a while; you happened to say something vaguely relevant towards the end of the thread. Bear in mind that this point is not aimed solely at you.

Yes, gritty violent brick-shithouse men are a stereotype. So are vacant, generically "sexy" women with little personality or competence. But who are those stereotypes supposed to appeal to? I think we can agree that the latter is targeted towards the so-called "typical" heterosexual male. But - and here's the kicker - so is the former. The difference is that, while game developers think that a vacant, incompetent sexy lady will appeal to men because they want to bang her, they think that a brick shithouse will appeal to men because they want to be him.

Brick shithouses do not feature prominently in games because developers are trying to appeal to a female audience or believe that they are something women like. Instead, the brick shithouse is perceived (perceived, mind you; I'm not saying that this perception is necessarily accurate) as something that men like. Therefore, women are still "hard done by", as you put it, because they are still being marginalised by the marketing and content of games.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

If we want to play 'who has it worse' we could keep it up for a while, but it doesn't matter. Men have to put up with stupid double standards against them too and there's no international men's day (which you would think would be a requirement for us to be equal).

Although double standards against men bother me (particularly the fact that men aren't allowed to show emotion for fear of being called a "pussy"/"fag"/"homo"/not a real man. I think that sounds incredibly restrictive and I'm surprised men never complain about it), I think it's silly to complain about Women's Day. There's no "Men's Day" for the same reason there's no "Caucasian Day" or "Children's Day", because every day is about children, every day is about whitey, and every day is about men.

No. Fuck that. You can't have a day celebrating women, while not having a day celebrating men and then pretend you're working for equality. That's making it less equal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Men%27s_Day whoops :3 Come on guys I typed 'Mens Day' into google you didn't even do that?

 

[BRex21]

My problem with Femenism in pretty much everything is that i generally dont think a large group of people can ever truly be spoken for by one person.
For the love of god, we are arguing about a stupid joke, get over it men have to deal with the exact same thing probably more promonently in our society than women. Violence is funnyer when it happens to men, media generally depicts men as dumber, fatter and less confident and even the real world ignores violence against men if its purpotrated by a smaller weaker woman.
If you want society to look more favorably on feminism you might want to speak out against the radicals that are destroying that view, Our university just had hundred of Womyn show up for a rally to, among other things, explain the "male privelage checklist" and why equality should mean they can wear a pretty dress to work. 2 days later i get groped in line getting coffee.
yet i never see so called feminists stand up and say "you dont speak for me."

 

[jboking]

Mostly because people hate feminists. Which really sucks when (like me) you are a feminist.

I don't think people actually hate feminists as much as they hate the term "feminist." It feels like a backhanded compliment to be told a group is working towards equality across genders and then be slapped with a term that basically screams, "Female." You see very few people upset over the term "Egalitarians", because the term doesn't have a connotation towards either gender.

There are so many female gamers, there is really no excuse for this anymore.

There's no excuse for not liking a movement that touts equality, but whose actions in the modern day usually display a push towards unnecessary superiority?

And guys who talk about "encounters with feminazis" - really, grow up. It is offensive to compare any feminist to a nazi, no matter bitchy they might be.

While I've never referred to militant feminists as a "feminazi," as it seemed kinda stupid (like spelling Sony or Microsoft with a Dollar sign), I do understand the kind of people they are talking about. Don't you? Are you still okay with me saying that I've encountered militant feminists who were dead set that men were the inferior gender? Because it is true. I encounter plenty of them here on my campus, and even more in my womens lit class.

Also, really, modern feminists are not that bitchy. We just want the freedom to do as we like - the freedom any man already has.

What freedom are you denied exactly? Could you outline those?

Spoiler: Please, Please...

Say you want the freedom to get equal pay, or that you are denied it now. That's always fun bullshit to throw around.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Brick shithouses do not feature prominently in games because developers are trying to appeal to a female audience or believe that they are something women like. Instead, the brick shithouse is perceived (perceived, mind you; I'm not saying that this perception is necessarily accurate) as something that men like. Therefore, women are still "hard done by", as you put it, because they are still being marginalised by the marketing and content of games.

Hahahahaha. Another woman telling men what they want. Men do not want to play brick shithouses all the time. Have you actually thought that you may benefit from listening to what men say they want, rather then telling them what they want? Developers keep on using the brick shithouse model because they, like most feminists have also failed to grow the fuck up. Like i said the entire industry needs to grow up. But that doesn't make it a gender based problem, its just a problem... fullstop.

I find it confusing that you have a problem with 'Brick shithouses' as you so quaintly refer to them. Yet your'e avatar is a guy flexing his left bicep for all he is worth. I also find it confusing you say feminists have nothing to complain about but then say there is a problem. Feminists are not stopping the brick shithouse hating men from taking thier issue up with games designers. I think we would all like to see better character development. You have a strange view that it's one or the other?

 

[ViaGalactica]

Le blah

--snip---

Yes, I was being condescending. It tends to happen when you are told to 'stop whining' and just 'suck it up' for the millionth time.

Sure, they do it for the money. But it still sucks that they think a WOMAN on a cover will not earn as much profit. And hell, it would suck even more if it turns that their fears are true and having a woman on a cover would deminish sales.

What I said was not sexist. Look, if men had no problem relating to female leads we would see it more often. And I'm not really putting the blame on individuals, but as a whole. I'm sure you are capable of doing so. Maybe more men are capable of doing so. But, unlike women, men don't have to sit through as much Female dominated works in order to learn how to do this, while we are bombarded by cool stories of Men being awesome and the occasional love story with a female lead.

Most books have male leads, as well as movies, series, games, whatever. Men are always leading, so when there is not a man on the Main Role, men tend to turn away from it. Women, well, we don't have much of a choice as that would imply turning away from most works of fiction. As I said, this isn't so much a person's fault, but society's fault again. For setting up these roles for people to take whether they like them or not. Men are associated with strength and courange while women are associated with weakness and subservience. To call a man a 'girl' is the biggest insult you could give him. Call a girl a 'boy' and it could just be taken as a compliment.

My point is, because of the way society has molded the minds of men, being compared to or relating to a female would be seen, in most cases, as a step down. (Again, society's fault.)

Oh, the custody situation is rooted in gender roles, too. It's the woman who has to care for the child, regardless of her desire or ability to do so! Why else would she have an uterus if not for taking care of children? I agree, it's not fair, but it exists because of this backwards views that society still upholds.

And I completely agree with your last point. And it's because they do not see the problems, or see them and choose not to change it, that feminists have taken to pointing them out. I mean, shit, the industry almost completely ostracizes us. It's not cool anymore, it's annoying. And that's why we complain. Not because we have some desire to bring men down. We just want, you know, equal representation.

 

[MasterChief892039]

snip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Men%27s_Day whoops :3 Come on guys I typed 'Mens Day' into google you didn't even do that?

Lol, well that's nice.
Honestly I didn't even know there was a "Women's Day" until it was mentioned a week or two ago in my cultural theory class.

They both seem like entirely useless holidays.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Men%27s_Day whoops :3 Come on guys I typed 'Mens Day' into google you didn't even do that?

That is not celebrated or even advertised as much as the chick version.

Plus! Women get Valentines day. What do men get? As much as we may wish it, steak and blowjob day is not celebrated or marketed nearly as much as V-day. Could make for some interesting decorations though...

Oh I thought steak and blowjobs was part of valentines day I guess I will have to change that...man I feel bad now.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

Oh man, ive been running into this alot. Some people HATE when females actually do things like grown ups.


Theres this one video on youtube, about how this one guy looks like a girl, so when he talks some guys actually tell him he needs to be quiet and hes being a ***** for saying something. And he correctly points out how thats dumb, girls are allowed to talk, duh.

The comments are ASTOUNDING "HOW DARE YOU, YOU HATE ALL MEN! YOU WANT TO DESTROY MEN! ARRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHH! ARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH!"
amazing.

That is some serious hate and intolerance there. Someone gets to posture and pretend to be big-dick, so no surprise. Where it gets ironic is that with more people being sexist dicks, they actually prove feminist theory and its claims right. Yep, they lay it all out, and the sexists get on-board.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Men%27s_Day whoops :3 Come on guys I typed 'Mens Day' into google you didn't even do that?

That is not celebrated or even advertised as much as the chick version.

Plus! Women get Valentines day. What do men get? As much as we may wish it, steak and blowjob day is not celebrated or marketed nearly as much as V-day. Could make for some interesting decorations though...

Oh I thought steak and blowjobs was part of valentines day I guess I will have to change that...man I feel bad now.

O_O *checks your profile* Dammit! Not in the same country as me! >.<

But no. Steak and Blowjob day is March 14th. But hey, if you wanna celebrate it twice then go ahead...

I love valentines day and if I have boyfriend they get spoiled to death becuase I am a total romantic. I didn't know about March 14th though rofl!

No, but they are also not helping us, even though the rest of us are complaining about the representation of both genders, feminists only focus on percieved female sxism.

So the conclusion is that we should all work togther to improve character representation in the gaming industry, sounds good to me

 

[Mikeyfell]

And these are contemporary western issues. Not even starting on the global ones that feminism is always relevant to such as the battle against arranged marriage, infant genital mutilation

It disturbs me that you don't classify this as a contemporary western issue.

That mostly happens in Africa and the Middle East. Neither of those places qualify as The West.

What exactly do you think circumcision is?

A male issue
Part of a religious ceremony
A way to make penis infections less likely
A surgical operation to remove excess skin
Not mutilation

You remove a part of the penis (which isn't useless), and it's a part that doesn't grow back. That's mutilation.

How much it actually helps against infections is debatable, although no medical association recommends it.

I thought you were talking about those tribal things where they cut off a pubescent girl's clitoris so she'll be less likely to cheat on her future husband.

That is the terrible thing that I was talking about.

She said infant genital mutilation. Circumcision totally qualifies as that.

That thing I'm talking about is actually called female circumcision. The more you know huh?

(which isn't useless)

You know I've been on Wikipedia for a while and I've determined that circumcision is wrong.

Evolution
In primates, the foreskin is present in the genitalia of both sexes and likely has been present for millions of years of evolution. The evolution of complex penile morphologies like the foreskin may have been influenced by females. It has been proposed that the foreskin evolved to facilitate masturbation.

 

[PhiMed]

People have intentionally misinterpreted a joke in order to claim offense, and people are against THAT.

The didn't state that all women are cheap. It just didn't. Stating that it did makes the women who say so seem as though they are not only incapable of taking a joke, but that they're incapable of interpreting one.

People aren't "against feminism". They're against fake outrage.

Additionally, I think many of us would agree that there have been more than enough threads on this site with the subject "'Why is/are' something that is totally a subjective opinion?"

"Why is everyone against feminism?"
"Why is everyone an atheist?"
"Why is everyone pro-pot?"

They're not! UGH!