Why do people hate griefers?
- Thread starter oppp7
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The OP really sounds like he's asking "Why are people mad at me when I grief them". It takes a certain lack of concern and respect for other people to do things like this, to anyone with a normal level of human decency the answer to your question is obvious.
Alright, I have a prime example here. Anyone who has played Left4Dead will probably know what I'm referring to as well. In the first level of Dead Air, the starting spawn is notorious for griefing off of. People will immediately upon starting the map, jump off the side of a roof and die, leaving the team with 3 players instead of the much necessary 4 players.
On the flipside, after winning all 4 rounds, its fairly popular to jump off a cliff as a team, and arguably, since there is no possible way to lose, earned by the team.
On the flipside, after winning all 4 rounds, its fairly popular to jump off a cliff as a team, and arguably, since there is no possible way to lose, earned by the team.
...You're serious? You think my options are to either kill them, or join them?oppp7 said:
No. That's bullshit.
Griefers LIVE to get people riled up and listen to them explode. If it works, the person that you are griefing will get pissed off with you. I'm a very physical person, I express my anger through the glorious and age-old medium of violence. If someone doesn't want to get punched, they don't grief me. Griefers that try to grief me online are cowards who would never do stuff like that to a person's face, because it would end up with them getting punched.
Now, let's examine the two options (which I will now call "Bullshits" for convienience) you have given me in detail, shall we?
Bullshit 1 - It's tahm fer a good ol' fashion' leeeeeeenchin'!
This is something that many griefers seem to think is what should happen. They have team killed me, somehow I should find it in my heart to completely stop what I was doing to hunt them. This has two bonuses for the griefer who, from now on, I will call (in a Zero Punctuation style) "Twatface". Firstly, Twatface has disrupted the game further for his team. Every person that starts hunting him rather than continuing to play the game is doing more harm to the team than good for themselves. This is counterproductive and pointless. It also serves to make the victim come to Twatface, rather than making Twatface move his character at all. Twatface can now either wait for the victim to come to him and kill him again, or start attacking someone else on the team. Either way ensures epic lulz for the team's token virgin.
Bullshit 2 - Join the dick side. Let the arsehole flow through you...
This is what Twatface has longed for. The closest he will ever come to bringing another life into this world is the creation of a new griefer. If the victim doesn't play the game the way it was intended, Twatface might start going for someone else! This is actually worse than Bullshit 1 because it's giving the team even more hell. The problem that Twatface hasn't considered in his gallant quest to find something that's similar to procreation is that the only people who want to be griefers are already griefers, and the only reason that the rest of the gaming community hasn't started enforced sterilisation is because it's an option that won't affect them.
There is a few options that I think games designers should consider;
Keep Friendly Fire Off - It makes the game less realistic, but it's hard to kill someone if you can't attack your own team. This goes for grenades/explosives, too. This should be in the options for every match so people who want to team kill can without problems. An even better variant of this would be to have people on your team not even impede your movements or bullets, which will end getting in the way!
Instant Kick - Not even an option to do it. If you shoot someone on your side, you are immediately removed from the game. This has been tried with the far more lenient "your character dies", but I feel that doesn't go far enough to protect people that actually want to play the damn game. It's a bit unfair on people who can't shoot for shit, but it will affect teamkillers more than people who haven't learnt to be careful with their shots.
Instantly muting EVERYONE on a team kill - An interesting one, but teamkills are usually done for the reaction - if they can't hear the reaction, there's no reward for them.
Metal controllers with the option to electrocute team killers - not lethal, but just a short, sharp jolt of pain (you know, like those tanks and Russian Roulette games). Extra fun if they sit back with the controller on their lap! This has the added fun of draining controller's battery life, costing the griefer real money every time they team kill.
Asking gamers why they hate "Griefers" is like asking why people hate stepping in dog crap... in new shoes... that they pay 60 bucks a year for.
You're playing a game that you paid to play, and someone just keeps messing it up, wasting your time and your money.
I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I get online and I like to screw around and avoid the objectives...etc, but I don't do it in a public game. I get a few friends online, or one of my brothers and I do stupid things, like lighting all the survivors on fire in L4d, or killing the wrong people in halo. But the key is I don't do dork around in games where these actions offend other player.
Griefers could do this if they had any friends, but they're jerks who like to get drunk and abuse kids, and they don't have any friends.
If you get a game with a griefer, quit the game, those who enjoy this immature display of public jerking off will stay for the show, and have a good time being assholes.
I say though, if stick around and try to play the griefer's game, you're just re-enforcing this bad behavior, they want you to get angry at them and try to shoot them, so they can boot you because they get a rise out of your frustration. Just quit, and report them for bad sportsmanship or whatever. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
You're playing a game that you paid to play, and someone just keeps messing it up, wasting your time and your money.
I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I get online and I like to screw around and avoid the objectives...etc, but I don't do it in a public game. I get a few friends online, or one of my brothers and I do stupid things, like lighting all the survivors on fire in L4d, or killing the wrong people in halo. But the key is I don't do dork around in games where these actions offend other player.
Griefers could do this if they had any friends, but they're jerks who like to get drunk and abuse kids, and they don't have any friends.
If you get a game with a griefer, quit the game, those who enjoy this immature display of public jerking off will stay for the show, and have a good time being assholes.
I say though, if stick around and try to play the griefer's game, you're just re-enforcing this bad behavior, they want you to get angry at them and try to shoot them, so they can boot you because they get a rise out of your frustration. Just quit, and report them for bad sportsmanship or whatever. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Griefing is one of the main reasons why there should be real life consequences to being an asshole online. It's easy being a jerk when the person you do it to cant retaliate, but I'm sure if they could, there'd be far less dicks online
We hate them because by definition, a griefer is a person who actively tries to make the game less fun for everyone else. That's all there is to it. If games are meant for fun as you said, then they're ruining that. We don't have to get massively worked up over them, but we have no reason to put up with them.
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Ok, so griefers aren't always good people. I already get that.
But really? Go back and look at some of your messages. Use force on someone for something that wasn't using force. Do you really think some of these reactions make any sense? Wow, they irritated you in a video game. So now you're going to go hit them? You're the same people that clog the death penalty threads with bs about how we should "kill them for revenge" and make it hard for those of us with enough sense that the death penalty should be used as a deterrent to be taken seriously by the people against capital punishment. Seriously, I can understand kicking them from the server or reporting them or whatever, but if they irritate you into reacting violently, then you have a serious issue. You are the same people who road rage and cause accidents. I don't care if they "provoked you." You can't overkill with punishment, or else you become worse than what you are fighting.
Ok, so griefers aren't always good people. I already get that.
But really? Go back and look at some of your messages. Use force on someone for something that wasn't using force. Do you really think some of these reactions make any sense? Wow, they irritated you in a video game. So now you're going to go hit them? You're the same people that clog the death penalty threads with bs about how we should "kill them for revenge" and make it hard for those of us with enough sense that the death penalty should be used as a deterrent to be taken seriously by the people against capital punishment. Seriously, I can understand kicking them from the server or reporting them or whatever, but if they irritate you into reacting violently, then you have a serious issue. You are the same people who road rage and cause accidents. I don't care if they "provoked you." You can't overkill with punishment, or else you become worse than what you are fighting.
Well, the entire point of griefing is to make the game less fun for others. People hate them because they're making the game less fun for them. If people don't hate griefers, they're not griefing very well. If I stood in the path of a busy stranger, arms spread wide, and made sure he couldn't get past, it wouldn't matter that what he was doing wasn't important; he'd still be justified in getting angry. Even if I offered the cast-iron excuse 'It's okay, I'm only inconveniencing you because it's funny to me'.
That said, sometimes it's really no thing of importance to me. In TF2, people can grief and hack all they like on maps like Mario Kart as far as I'm concerned. Those games are supposed to be stupid, and I find it bizarre that people can get angry at anything that happens while playing them.
Also, there's no difference between trolling and griefing. Trolling's not hate-based. A troll, and a griefer, both seek gratification (hereafter referred to as 'lulz') from creating a negative experience for others. If a person's actually angry on the internet, they're not trolling.
That said, sometimes it's really no thing of importance to me. In TF2, people can grief and hack all they like on maps like Mario Kart as far as I'm concerned. Those games are supposed to be stupid, and I find it bizarre that people can get angry at anything that happens while playing them.
Also, there's no difference between trolling and griefing. Trolling's not hate-based. A troll, and a griefer, both seek gratification (hereafter referred to as 'lulz') from creating a negative experience for others. If a person's actually angry on the internet, they're not trolling.
See? I can understand that. People can get angry and flame back at the trolls/griefers. But I'm talking about the people who take it too far and let the griefer get under their skin so much they do extreme things, such as hitting them if they're nearby (as someone above said) or hacking their account to destroy it.ntw3001 said:
There's a difference between the real world and the game worlds. If a random stranger did that in the real world then you should try to threaten them because the fact that they are doing it in real life means they have a general issue or reason for it. In video games it is done because it's easy and mostly harmless. In real life, if they did it then yes, try pushing them out of the way. If they pushed back call the police. But like I said, there's a big difference between video games and real human interaction.Chipperz said:
Why do people hate griefers? Because they force other people to play the game the way the griefer wants to. What if they just want to play the normal way and don't enjoy TKing or answering trivia questions?
I'm all for gamebreaking and alternate ways to play, you don't have to play by the rules at all times, but it shouldn't be at the expense of other's experience.
I'm all for gamebreaking and alternate ways to play, you don't have to play by the rules at all times, but it shouldn't be at the expense of other's experience.
Look, I'm sorry that people hate you because you can only get your jollies off by making people hate you, but if you make people hate you, then people will hate you. This is a simple matter. You can say that games aren't real, and that's right, but that's also the point - everyone else wants to play the game except you who has decided that you want to play the game differently. Anyone who wants to just switch off and play a game for a bit who doesn't want you around is taking it "too seriously".oppp7 said:
You know what? People have jobs. Many of these are stressful. When they get back from these, they want to unwind and just play a game. It's a valid and efficient form of stress relief that helps people cope with the real world. It is serious.