Why do people pick on JRPGs?

[For.I.Am.Mad]

-All the stories are the same.
-The events that happen from beginning to end are the same
-The main character is usually bland, whiny, jerk
-Gaudy character designs, buckles and zippers everywhere. Ugly, puffy clothes
-They're hasn't been any real change to battle systems just quirks here and there
-The main and secondary characters are all the same(see Yahtzee's Spice Girls reference)
-The writing is bad mostly all the time
-The writing is also shallow
-Huge plot holes everywhere all the time
-Shit don't make sense half the time
-Homo-eroticism everywhere(Kingdom Hearts 2). I swear the lead designers are all gay or something.
-Production values, aside from Squeenix titles, have actually gone down. They release this stuff on the Wii. Add this to the other problems I listed and just makes it that much worse, you're not going to at least give me something nice to look at.
-Misogyny, girls are always 'A burden'
-Refusal to adapt to the western market. The big guys are less guilty of this.
-When you break the characters down they're rather childish.
-Incompetency in game design.

 

[A random person]

On this site: Say what you will about people having their own opinions, Yahtzee's a pretty big reason. Our collective worship of Bioware adds to it.

In general: All I know is that Japanese things seem to be polarizing on the internet for whatever reason. There are also some legitimate complaints (i.e overly-long cutscenes, boring battle systems) that are taken way, way too far (for example, many JRPG's actually show enemies in the world. Battle systems also vary more than you'd think).

Oh, and a lot of ideas of what JRPG's are like come from modern Square Enix games, which even I'll admit get rather flamboyant (for my JRPG's I prefer the Tales series, Chrono Trigger, and good ol' fashioned Pokemon, among other things).

 

[Warped_Ghost]

I don't like JRPG because of the greatly oversized weapons being help by teenagers. I don't like them but I know some people do and I can respect that.
But thats just my opinion.

 

[HolyMoogle]

It's pretty clear that many JRPG developers have fallen into a rut, and for better or worse, this is the HD generation, and many Japanese RPG developers haven't come to grips with that.

Square Enix, interestingly enough, are almost the other extreme. They're running around like headless chickens. They have HD downpat, but they're so terrified of being seen as stagnant that they make wild changes (although, with XIII changes really meant cuts) to their games without thinking them through fully, leaving the fanbase spectacularly divided and ever more narrow. I think Versus XIII will be extremely interesting in this regard: it is yet another massive change (a big open world, if the comments in Famitsu are anything to go by) and sounds more reminiscent of a WRPG, although with FF's usual blend of elaborate architecture, random Latin sprinkled everywhere, and the odd crazy hairdo.

Very interesting to see how it will be received.

 

[Delock]

First of all, it's actually mostly a problem with RPGs rather than just JRPGs. You see, RPGs used to refer to tabletop games more than videogames in which you could do just about anything you liked, including build your character how you wanted. The build-your-character part was what got translated over at first with RPGs (in just about all ways since they never spoke in game so you could imagine what they were really like on your own). The big split between JRPGs and WRPGs came when the two genres decided what they were going to focus on. The Japanese ones seemed to want to focus more on telling a story, while the Western ones wanted to keep giving control to the player on what they wanted to do. This meant that JRPGs started to suffer in terms of character developing while WRPGs suffered in the story department (at least in my own perspective. I'm not going to fight with anyone about this). Now that technology has advanced, Western RPGs are now able to provide better stories while keeping the character development up to the players. Japanese RPGs however, have mostly remained the same (in all truth though, I'd say they've gotten a bit worse in this newer generation since some of the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube ones were amazingly good *cough*Tales*cough).

Also you have the problem with RPGs themselves. The biggest problem with this genre is that it is like metal music. There are a whole hell of a lot of different subgenres (though no one has really made up enough names yet), but no one really knows what the entirity of it is. People who don't play them think the term RPG refers to the most infamous subgenre (if you can get over the fact that I just related MMOs/JRPGs/Table tops to death metal, you're better than me). People who play them argue about what is and is not "true RPG" (yep, you guys are the same as the YouTubers who complain about true metal). And in the end, it's a very polarizing genre as a whole. Some absolutely love it, while others despise it from the very first moment.

And of course, the biggest problem is in the name: Japanese RPGs. Cultural differences do actually drive some people away from the genre. Stuff like the age of characters (despite the fact that the medival fantasy worlds they lived in probably considered teenagers to be full on adults), the art style (I absolutely love how people can set this aside for Okami and Zelda but complain when its Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy), or the messages they have (here's a great example from FFIX: the questioning of what a soul is, who has one, and what happens after death) aren't in the comfort zone of several people. In addition, you have the obstacles that trip up several games in this subgenre: Translation (more than just directly changing the script since there WILL be references to things common in Japanese culture/beliefs/mythology that aren't commonly known), Voice actors who fit the characters, and marketing to people who are halfway to all the way across the world from the developers. All this added onto the fact that you have to overcome the (mostly wrong) stereotypes of the subgenre is an extremely daunting task.

Of course, there's always the fact that they are an Acceptable Target in the gaming community, due to both the stereotypes and the louder voices in the community attacking them (which fans then echoed which then turned into a bandwagon).

 

[MiserableOldGit]

People pick on JRPGs for the same reason kids pick on the weedy ginger non-swimmer-they make for an easy target. Characters and storylines are embarrasingly trite and cliched at best, a structurless mess only Freud would relish plowing through at worst (yes, there are exceptions for the pedants and dullards out there that are too thick to appreciate the use of speaking in general terms-please, feel free to list your anecdotes;I'm not going to read em so its no sweat off my sack).

The narratives are disjointed and shot to pieces courtesy of the complete lack of interaction between storyline and gameplay, and the gameplay itself boils down to a patheticaly simple 'tell that chap to do this' system that screams "play me if your shit at games"-not saying its a crime being no good at games, but you can't hold games that cater for this crowd in esteem any more than you can call a simple book for slow kids a literary masterpiece.

Breaking away from the "I'll stand here while you twat me one then you stand there while I twat you one" method of gameplay is a relativley recent innovation in JRPGs, and I'm no more impressed by this than I would be a thirty year old that just graduated from velcro to shoelaces.

The gameplay is boring and repetative-yes you can level this criticism at most games if you look at them in broad enough terms, but I've found that the good games are the ones that make you forget you're doing the same thing over and over, usualy by providing an engaging context or introducing new variables that give the gameplay a fresh dynamic. Say for example, you were playing a shooter. You could argue that all your doing is moving a reticule over target after target and pressing fire before ducking under cover, but if one level sees you sneaking into a base with a silenced pistol, while the next sees you legging it out of said base before it explodes, you'd seem a bit of a dull twat for suggesting its all the same.

Thing is, its ok to like shit things, just don't be suprised when other people call it the bag of wank it is. I like early 80's electro (all the body poppin, pre-modern hip hop stuff). I like it because I used to DJ and the musics great for mixing and scratching, but you know what? It's cheesy, repetative and largely shite. I know it, I like it anyway, and I don't begrudge anyone for calling it the bag of effluent it really is. You like something shit-that's fine;actualy its a sign of an independant mind capable of developing odd quirks. For god's sake don't try to defend it though-your backing a loser.

 

[Flamezdudes]

I don't hate JRPGs, I hate the games.

FF13 had a horrible combat system and Snow is the most unlikeable character I've ever seen in any medium. I would enjoy an RPG where I was Prince Kan'in ordering the Rape of Nanking more than one with Snow. It's not his appearance either. That guy is just psychotic. Hope and Vanille never bothered me.

FF12 had a lot of promise, but I didn't like how restricted it felt. The combat was still bad, but they were making progress. Vaan was not a good main character. Balthier was far superior.

Snow was annoying at certain points in the story but only when he went on about being a hero, most of the time he was fine other than that i have no complaints over the characters. I think FF13's combat was good because it was trying something different, it was more high paced and you had to be quick and make sure your characters are doing the right things and i absolutely loved it.

FF13 may of been linear but it fit with the plot, they're not gonna go to towns when on the run are they? Fans didn't like it because it was different.

I don't see much difference anyway, once you've gotten to higher levels in other FF games anyway you just keep pressing attack, summon something or use the OMGWTF attack.

FF12 was annoying as hell, the characters were unlikable and the combat was frustrating and annoying to use and so i gave up on it. I do think people are too harsh on JRPG's though, its not like FPS' are trying to change much are they?

 

[Mykayel1]

I think we're going about this the wrong way. I liked some JRPGs over the years, but most of them are shit (ESPECIALLY Final Fantasy XIII) however, I can justify my dislike for the games because I don't go Hypocrite Mode. You see, whenever I read the hate comments regarding JRPGs I hear them actually complaining about their favorite games, ironically because those complains apply to their favorite games as well. IE: Final Fantasy is unrealistic (first off it's call final FANTASY), but so is Dragon Age Origins, Lord Of The Rings, Mass Effect and a lot of others; Turn Based Combat sucks, you do realize Heroes is also Turn Based right?; The stories are always the same thing over and over, aliens fighting space marines...does that sound familiar?; All of them have over sized weapons, Marcus Fenix (or is it Phoenix?) should technically be unable to move wearing a truck on his body and wielding a gun that should be hard to hold in the first place, but when you add that chainsaw at the end, it just becomes ridiculous. Also, what about the WarCraft characters? Did you see the size of Arthas' gloves? He could wear one of those on his head as a helmet; You don't get choices, just like Diablo 1 and 2, but that guy loved those games; and the list goes on and on.

Then someone will say "The protagonists look like girls" Did you ever play Halo ODST?

I couldn't care less about this, I just play what I like and not give a shit about everyone else, but I do find it amusing though.

 

[imPacT31]

-All the stories are the same.
-The events that happen from beginning to end are the same
-The main character is usually bland, whiny, jerk
-Gaudy character designs, buckles and zippers everywhere. Ugly, puffy clothes
-They're hasn't been any real change to battle systems just quirks here and there
-The main and secondary characters are all the same(see Yahtzee's Spice Girls reference)
-The writing is bad mostly all the time
-The writing is also shallow
-Huge plot holes everywhere all the time
-Shit don't make sense half the time
-Homo-eroticism everywhere(Kingdom Hearts 2). I swear the lead designers are all gay or something.
-Production values, aside from Squeenix titles, have actually gone down. They release this stuff on the Wii. Add this to the other problems I listed and just makes it that much worse, you're not going to at least give me something nice to look at.
-Misogyny, girls are always 'A burden'
-Refusal to adapt to the western market. The big guys are less guilty of this.
-When you break the characters down they're rather childish.
-Incompetency in game design.

Compare this to the FPS genre

-FPS are increasingly retreading the same ground, particularly due to the prevalence of sequels
-I'm really not sure how you can defend this point. Are you really saying nothing ever happens in these games?
-The main character is either mute, a jackass or simply under-developed
-Prevalence of "real" (read: Grey and brown) colour pallets
-There hasn't been any real change to the genre's mechanics, just quirks here and there
-The main and secondary characters are all the same
-The writing is bad most of the time
-The writing is also shallow
-Huge plot holes everywhere
-Shit don't make sense half the time
-Overt masculinity or bromance is common.
-Production values are constantly going up, leading to a small crop of bloated titles that are released every year with few significant changes
-Misogyny: how often are female characters featured promenantly in FPSs or in any role other than scientists and eye-candy?
-Refusal to adapt to the Eastern market
-When you break the characters down they're either very under-developed or cultural stereotypes
-Emphasis on spectacle over good game design or balance

I'm by no means a big JRPG fan, Fanal Fantasy XIII was the first I had played since the nightmare that was X-2, but it was a title I really enjoyed. The Eastern style of story telling and character development is so significantly different that I found many of the genre tropes somewhat refreshing. I can enjoy both genres for what makes them different, while also acknowledging that both are stagnating and far from perfect.

People pick on JRPGs because it's popular and they're different. That's not to say that some people don't enjoy them or that they are universally good but that it's not something they deserve any more than other genres of games.

 

[Meggiepants]

Mostly because if you don't like something, it's hard to ignore the problems with it.

I enjoy many JRPGs, so I don't really mind if they are repetitive and unchanging. But I can understand why someone who didn't like JRPGs doesn't understand how someone can play a game like that.

 

[Shards97]

The characters are unlikable, winy, effeminate pricks who somehow have unrealistically potent physical capabilities, the stories are linear and so steeped in cultural bullshit that it isn't accessible to people from other cultures who didn't spend their developing years ingrained in so much anime that they're more japaneese than whatever race they were born, and the combat system, while boring, had some finesse and skill to it up until they started trying random changes hoping to find something else.

And all of this is coming from someone who openly admits to liking the WWE.



For the record, I actually did grow up with anime, Shonen anime, specifically, and I do get a lot of the cultural references, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't personally engaging to me, and the mark of a good localization team is when you don't need to get any of them to enjoy the game, and that is almost never the case in JRPGS.

Also, I did enjoy some JRPGs when I was younger, and it was my favorite genre, up until two things happened: Gears of War gave me a fun, fast paced game that actually utilized cover, thus opening me up to action games, and I discovered KOTOR, and fell in love with WRPGs.



ETA: KH was entertaining, but Goofy and Donald were really just annoying, and Sora was one of the least likable protagonists I've ever played as. KH2 still had the problems with the main characters, but the combat and general feel had been polished to a shine. I consider this game the height of the JRPG. FF8 was what first got me into RPGs, and I have to admit to some nostalgia. FF9 was fun, but suffered for some of the plot points (seriously, getting married as a means to get into a restricted area, and we're supposed to support this?). FF10 was fun, but the only likable character was dead, though I will give it that blitzball was probably an early indicator of how much I would grow to love sports games. FF10-2, 12, and 13 were all massive disappointments, as was Rogue Galaxy.

 

[veloper]

There are 2 kinds of RPG from Japan:
1 SRPGs are japanese tactical('strategic') games and can have pretty solid TB gameplay

2 what we call JRPGs are grindfests interspersed with terrible dialogue and VO.

The terrible stories and silly extravagant characters can be forgiven in SRPGs, because gameplay is king. Not so for JRPGs where the rediculous stories is all they have going for them.

Where does a game like Star Ocean or Tales of* fall into, where the combat is king, and more fast paced than anything you find in WRPG's and is extremely varied and rewarding, and where grinding is optional to give newbie players an edge if they need it?

SRPGs are always turn-based. So both are not SRPG, but JRPG.

Or Demon's Souls, where combat is still fast paced and fluid, but requires actual coordination and tactics, and careful approach of every foe, rather than just bosses. Tell me the name of a WRPG better than Demon's Souls and I tell you that you are wrong.

It's an ACTION rpg, not a pure RPG. How do you even suppose to compare DS to traditional RPGs?

 

[Calum_M]

I honestly don't get all these people claiming they don't like JRPGs because they're unrealistic. I can't think of a single video game to ever come out in the history of the world that was actually anything like reality. In first person shooters, to recover from a bullet wound, you either have to stand on top of a first aid kit or simply wipe the blood from your eyes. In fighting games, you can be completely fine one second, but one light tap on the shoulder later, you're on the floor clutching your stomach. In driving games, if you die in a horrible crash, the race will continue, and you'll magically appear alive and well, slightly behind from where you are.

Most of the time games are fun purely because they're not realistic. So don't claim the reason you don't like them is because the characters carry large weapons.

 

[I forgot]

because they're ignorant and are sheep of yahtzee's own misled opinion, much as they hate to admit.

They're arguments'll be cliches like "all you do is press x" despite that number of buttons is a stupid argument just like "I can't affect the story" yet that's the exact case for such beloved titles like psychonauts or monkey island and story is never affected in video games, EVER. They also fail to realize that JRPG and WRPG aren't genres, role playing doesn't exist in video games and that arguing only about the "role playing" aspect shows they don't care about the most important parts of the game like mechanics, rules, etc.

 

[Googenstien]

I am just getting back into JRPGs and when I first got my PS3 and Go this past fall I wrote them off and went on to buy other games and found a lack of RPGs on the PS3. I got Dragon Age and while its ok, its a typical Bioware game which I am fearing is the future pun that will be used to movk the RPG genre... Bioware games just really arent that great IMO.

So I picked up FFXIII expecting to hate it and I like it alot, its by far the best graphics ive seen on any console and the gameplay is really good (yes it can get repetitive but thats what RPGs are about really, most games actually)

I also got Shin Megami Tensei: P3P on the PSP and its a really good game too, which made me get Dragon Quest IX and thats another really good JRPG that eeven a year ago I would have wrote off because of what i used to think of JRPGs.

I just think Japanese game devs got lazy, like anyone does really, and just pumped out thoughtless clones of the popular games to make fast money.

A good game is a good game.. whether its a JRPG, WRPG, FPS etc.. If its a quality product it will shine. Right now FPS games are a dime a dozen and most are clones rushed out to make a fast buck.. but when a good unique FPS game comes out it will do well (hopefully Bulletstorm)

 

[Zenn3k]

Cause they haven't been good since 1997

KH1, KH2, FFX, Renasonce of fate I could go on for ages.
Also you read my initial post? I doubt it.

Personally, I couldn't stand KH, FFX was one of the worst EVER and I've never heard of Renaissance Fate.

Yes I did read it, you asked questions, I provided my answer.

1. It's Renasonce of fate not Renissance we arn't talking about history here.
2. FFX was a emotion filled wonder and I have yet to find a game that has as well rounded characters as, emotion invoking story and as fun gameplay, well, apart from KH.
3. What did you find bad about KH?!

1: Renasonce isn't a word, so blame spell checker, I honestly thought you were misspelling it.
2: FFX the story of a Meg Ryan look alike pretending to laugh and play underwater volleyball. Also some of the worst voice acting since Resident Evil. I couldn't even finish it, it was THAT bad. If you handed me a copy today, I'd snap it in half. Emotion filled wonder? Wow you have issues. 13 had better story, characters, and was more fun, and its basically a rail shooter, then again, X was basically a rail shooter too.
3: I'm not into Disney, also a Backstreet Boy doing the voice of Sephiroth is just about the most horrible thing ever conceived in video game history.