Why do people say that Capitalism is good?

[mechanixis]

Capitalism doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist.

The existence of the law does not reduce the value of ill-gotten money.

Yes, but it makes it less likely for people to do things we're they achieve ill-gotten cash.

If someone can gain ill-gotten money with no chance of getting in trouble, it doesn't matter what type of economic system you live in, 9/10 times people will do it.

Well, one approach to stopping theft is to punish the thief. Another is not to give him anything to steal.

If you can have everything you want or need for free, and don't feel compelled to acquire money for money's sake, you're not going to steal money.

True, but then there is also no incentive to make the best product.

Well, if someone dislikes their chair strongly enough, they're going to make a new chair. Historically speaking the greatest minds are internally motivated by the idea of progress.

 

[Pimppeter2]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

Well it would be more like "What do you like to do? Okay, do that." The state would have no reason to turn all its great minds into janitors, especially if the only remaining motive is 'progress'.

So the state picks you job based on what they want you to do in order to "progress".

So where does choice come in? What if I'm a smart person but I want to be a lazy janitor for my entire life? The state is going to force me to do something I don't want to do?

 

[kazekagesama23]

If you can have everything you want or need for free

That sounds amazing. I would love to hear ideas on how to achieve a Utopia like that.

But in all seriousness, there will never be a society, a way of thinking or a economic model that can get everyone everything they need, want and dream of for free without any risk or chance of failure.

Actually, let me correct that. That society could very well happen, but that society would crumble in months, if not weeks.

In order for a society to distribute goods, services and entertainment to all its citizens would take a massive infusion of capitol from an outside source, preferably one that doesn't really care about pouring its national resources into a money pit.

I suppose in theory, yes, if every single human being on the planet could think the same way and mutually agree to donate their goods to each other, then we could achieve that. But human nature(and real world economics) always makes a mockery of theoretical economic models with no wealth creation.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

That's pretty much what's happening anyway. Yeah, I could go to a different job here that wouldn't be much better because I have fairly specific qualifications, but moving from a shit job that doesn't pay well and that you hate to another of the same type of job isn't exactly the kinda of freedom supporters of Capitalism talk about. The someone choosing my job would be going "Oh, you're a certified computer technician, do that." Although, maybe not, since CompTIA wouldn't exist in this hypothetical world, but they'd still be going "Oh, you're taking computer-related courses, and have done quite well in troubleshooting and maintenance, do that." Yeah, sounds like a pretty good deal.

 

[Mcupobob]

Isn't this why shelters and half way homes are made? To help those in need.

Not in a 'True Capitalist' society. There's no profit in it unless the government funds it. How strongly did Americans fight the offer of free healthcare because it was 'socialist'?

Charites duh, in a "True Capitalist" Society Charites would help the homeless/sick/cripple but due to human nature we can't have this as most charites would be correpted or have no funds to sustain themselvs, so it must be balanced out with goverement and socialism which i'm fine with.

 

[mechanixis]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Capitalism doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist.

The existence of the law does not reduce the value of ill-gotten money.

Yes, but it makes it less likely for people to do things we're they achieve ill-gotten cash.

If someone can gain ill-gotten money with no chance of getting in trouble, it doesn't matter what type of economic system you live in, 9/10 times people will do it.

Well, one approach to stopping theft is to punish the thief. Another is not to give him anything to steal.

If you can have everything you want or need for free, and don't feel compelled to acquire money for money's sake, you're not going to steal money.

True, but then there is also no incentive to make the best product.

Well, if someone dislikes their chair strongly enough, they're going to make a new chair. Historically speaking the greatest minds are internally motivated by the idea of progress.

Okay, so I make a better chair.

Then all the other chairs that are worse than mine become obsolete?

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

That's pretty much what's happening anyway. Yeah, I could go to a different job here that wouldn't be much better because I have fairly specific qualifications, but moving from a shit job that doesn't pay well and that you hate to another of the same type of job isn't exactly the kinda of freedom supporters of Capitalism talk about. The someone choosing my job would be going "Oh, you're a certified computer technician, do that." Although, maybe not, since CompTIA wouldn't exist in this hypothetical world, but they'd still be going "Oh, you're taking computer-related courses, and have done quite well in troubleshooting and maintenance, do that." Yeah, sounds like a pretty good deal.

But you wouldn't be taking computer-related courses in the first place because your job would have already been chosen for you.

And since there is no need for computer technicians (since you can't find a job), the state would place you in a more "progressive" job that they need you to do.

 

[Dana22]

Capitalism is economical system not a form of government.

 

[Pimppeter2]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

But what would the incentive be to create a car in your fantasy land?

 

[mechanixis]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

Well it would be more like "What do you like to do? Okay, do that." The state would have no reason to turn all its great minds into janitors, especially if the only remaining motive is 'progress'.

So the state picks you job based on what they want you to do in order to "progress".

So where does choice come in? What if I'm a smart person but I want to be a lazy janitor for my entire life? The state is going to force me to do something I don't want to do?

If you want to a lazy janitor then you're going to make a lousy quantum physicist, regardless of how smart you are. And the system takes that into account.

 

[Demongeneral109]

Because its the system we use, and, more importantly, it works. The Cold War was Communism vs. Capitalism, not truly an armed conflict so much as a competition on who can be more sucessful. In short, capitalism won, as America Demonstrates by being a dominant economic power, even China has adopted a kind of government run capitalism(its wierd nyoro~) and its growing exponentially(that and they cheat with a fixed currency rate, the cheaters) Capitalism isn't perfect, but it is the most sucessful method in history as of now (im not to clear on the European Socialism vs. true socialism thing, im acting under the impression that Europe blends the two nyoro~) and thats why Capitalism is good!

 

[Clobbertron]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

Well it would be more like "What do you like to do? Okay, do that." The state would have no reason to turn all its great minds into janitors, especially if the only remaining motive is 'progress'.

If society worked like that where everyone just got to have a job that they wanted and a pat on the head, there would be a saturation of people living off things that could be considered hobbies, like painting, and many of the less glamourous jobs but still important jobs, such as working at a sewage treatment plant would be ignored and the society wouldn't function.

I'm not saying that someone couldn't live off their art in a capitalist environment, because there are many examples of people who have, but they would have to work a normal job at first to support themselves until they prove that they create something that people have a demand for, then they could live off of it.

I'm not sure how much sense that makes because I am rather tired right now but I hope you can see the point I'm trying to get across.

 

[Pimppeter2]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

Well it would be more like "What do you like to do? Okay, do that." The state would have no reason to turn all its great minds into janitors, especially if the only remaining motive is 'progress'.

So the state picks you job based on what they want you to do in order to "progress".

So where does choice come in? What if I'm a smart person but I want to be a lazy janitor for my entire life? The state is going to force me to do something I don't want to do?

If you want to a lazy janitor then you're going to make a lousy quantum physicist, regardless of how smart you are. And the system takes that into account.

How does it do that? Ohh, and fairy dust isn't an answer.

You're telling me the state magically knows the best career for you?

 

[kazekagesama23]

Charites duh, in a "True Capitalist" Society Charites would help the homeless/sick/cripple but due to human nature we can't have this as most charites would be correpted or have no funds to sustain themselvs, so it must be balanced out with goverement and socialism which i'm fine with.

Are you aware how many charities there actually are in the US alone? There are amazing amounts of private charities everywhere in this great nation. Also, government is no less fallible than people that might be running those charities.

In fact I would almost be tempted to argue that the government would be MORE likely to be corrupted, but there is no actual evidence to support it, so I won't. Suffice to say, government in any country is subject to massive corruption, with private charities, at least you spread the risk out so that fewer people are affected if there are a few bad apples. When a government "sells its people down the river" each and every one of its people are truly screwed.

 

[Dana22]

Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide.

Thats because we have socialism both in US and Western Europe.

 

[mechanixis]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

But what would the incentive be to create a car in your fantasy land?

Have you only ever done things because someone else told you to?

May I remind you the Wright Brothers were hobbyists.

 

[Pyode]

Not in a 'True Capitalist' society. There's no profit in it unless the government funds it. How strongly did Americans fight the offer of free healthcare because it was 'socialist'?

Because it's not free. Somebody pays for it, just not the person receiving it. Socialized medicine is essentially forced charity.

If I want to donate to an organization that helps provide health care for the underprivileged, there are places I can go to do that.

The problem is, with any government provided heath care, I don't have a choice.

Capitalism is not about not helping others, it's about having the freedom to chose whether you want to help someone or not.

 

[Mechanical Cat Fish]

The OP is technically correct; captalism sucks. The thing is, nothing else works in practice; meritocrcies (everyone doing what they're best suited to) are a great idea, but there's no ominscient third party to decide who should do what, and most systems are just slight variations on capitalism. Even communist states have money, and criminal acts work there too, the difference is: everybody else is just as poor as you.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Isn't this why shelters and half way homes are made? To help those in need.

Not in a 'True Capitalist' society. There's no profit in it unless the government funds it. How strongly did Americans fight the offer of free healthcare because it was 'socialist'?

I think that's just because they hate anything that has even the slightest scent of socialism. Not the principal of free healthcare itself.