Why do people say that Capitalism is good?

[mechanixis]

Ok... So if you get robbed of your money in a capitalistic society, you die?

According to capitalist ideals, there's really no reason why anyone should provide you with food when someone has robbed you of your sola bility to procure food, and thuis you'll starve to death... You know, unless you rob someone else that is...

Or someone gives you money for food, but that would be icky socialism, wouldn't it?

 

[Pimppeter2]

Alright, alright, granted. There's going to be fallout regardless.

How about this: you're born poor. You aren't a genius with a brilliant new invention. You can't afford an education.

This of course never happens according to capitalists, due to their religiois belief that every single human being posses exactly the same innate abilities to strike it rich and become a millionaire, thus making it on each single individuals complete resposibility over their wealth.'

But if ever human do possess these qualities, then why aren't everyone in the world filthy rich? I mean, even if you don't really enjoy living like a rock star or hotel chain heir, it would certainly help your day to day life by having a fortune on your bank account. Yet the world isn't like that.

To this the capitalists really don't have any answer, other than blaming the poor for being poor. Also blatantly ignoring the fact that the rich actually has to keep poor people poor in order to stay rich since the very concept of a free market works by taking advantage of people who don't have the means or ability to see that you are actually making a profit of them.

No one has said that capitalism isn't flawed. Only deranged communists believe that they can make a flawless world.

 

[Ciran]

Capitalism doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist.

The existence of the law does not reduce the value of ill-gotten money.

Yes, but it makes it less likely for people to do things we're they achieve ill-gotten cash.

If someone can gain ill-gotten money with no chance of getting in trouble, it doesn't matter what type of economic system you live in, 9/10 times people will do it.

Well, one approach to stopping theft is to punish the thief. Another is not to give him anything to steal.

If you can have everything you want or need for free, and don't feel compelled to acquire money for money's sake, you're not going to steal money.

Okay, I'm sorry, but this is economically flawed at its core. There is no way that someone can get everything they want or need for free. We are a people with unlimited wants or needs on a world that has limited resources. Therefore this is an impossible scenario. Capitalism ensures that only those motivated enough and discriminating enough will get what they actually want or need at the best price possible.

As for this your other points, most of them are only ideas from your point of view, instead of looking at the situation objectively and taking into account other factors.
Yes, in a purely capitalistic society, the police wouldn't exist, but private security companies would, and many people would hire those to protect their money, or the people who couldn't afford them would band together to ensure that the risk of thievery would outweigh the reward. Now, of course thievery would still occur, but there is no society or economic outlook that would be able to obliterate it completely. Also I think you're failing to take into account the fact that not everybody wants to steal. A lot of people find it much easier to band together instead of taking everyones stuff and trying to make it on their own. Not only that but the people who you stole from may very well want their stuff back and will decide to hunt down whoever stole from them and take their stuff back. Theft is not always the path of least resistance.

Companies may find it easier to convince people that their product is superior, which is why most of the general population stay where they are, economically speaking. Only those who are discriminating enough would be able to tell what is actually superior and what isn't and buy accordingly, therefore ensuring that they got the best product possible at the best possible price. Gaining wealth in a capitalistic society is just as much about buying intelligently as it is working hard and making something someone wants to buy, or fulfilling your obligation in your respective field.

As for your last point, yeah in a purely capitalistic society, you would be screwed if all your money got stolen, or it was destroyed somehow, but that's why we don't have a purely capitalistic society. Any extreme, whether is be pure socialism, communism, capitalism, anarchy, religious fanaticism, etc. Is detrimental, which is why you almost never find a society based around any outlook that is not at least somewhat derived on a pure outlook but tempered by another or several other outlooks.

 

[Dana22]

Or someone gives you money for food, but that would be icky socialism, wouldn't it?

No. What you do with YOUR OWN MONEY is up to you. When government decides about that for you, thats socialism.

 

[DoomWyrd]

Personally I think that most people over-examine capitalism. At its core it's about capital, and not money. Sure money is a form of capital, but really capital is anything that has value. I can't even think of a system of society that isn't capitalist at its core. Even in a true socialist society where every thing is shared equally there is capitalism, because every one does equal work.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Ok... So if you get robbed of your money in a capitalistic society, you die?

According to capitalist ideals, there's really no reason why anyone should provide you with food when someone has robbed you of your sola bility to procure food, and thuis you'll starve to death... You know, unless you rob someone else that is...

In a communistic world there is no reason for anyone to provide better services and products. And your defense wast that they are internally motivated for "progress"

Why doesn't the same loophole apply to capitalism? Why can't people be internally motivated to do something despite it not being beneficial to themselves personally?

 

[mechanixis]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

Ok you really backpeddled there.
So the people start working in that industry that is developing or as people have been doing in these recent economic times are getting better education and more skill sets for jobs.

You think their would be no fallout from a change like that in a communist or socialist system? You are making a lot of false assumptions here.

The larger a system no matter what it is, if their is a huge failure their is going to be massive fallout. Think of a clock full of gears if one gear is out of alignment the clock doesn't work. So if a government is supporting every body then a large amount of people lose their jobs for whatever reason. That government is going to be put under a huge amount of strain and will be unable to support everybody like it was established.

Alright, alright, granted. There's going to be fallout regardless.

How about this: you're born poor. You aren't a genius with a brilliant new invention. You can't afford an education. The most you can hope to do is work a minimum wage job and scrape by. Is this deserved?

Ok more false assumptions and i have to get off im sleepy.
So i guess in our society right now thier are no ways to better yourself.
Wow!
Public schooling sucks but at least now you are given free chances to learn to read and write.
Now whether you wish to make your self smarter and get out of working minimum wage or not is your choice.

I cannot remember the man's name but he was a slave in the south and he did everything he could to learn how to read and he fled to the north where he put his new found skills to work. i will hopefully remember this man's name when i get some sleep.

This is why i love responsibility it is always the individuals burden. People better themselves all the time and then there are people who do not and make excuses saying they are disadvantaged.

Their is always a choice and the responsibility is weighed on the person and that is why people flee to government control. They fear responsibility.

The only reason we have public schools is that public schools are paid for by the state. Non-Capitalist. Private schools, on the other hand, cost huge sums of money to attend. Imagine the ratio of privately-educated Americans to publicly-educated ones for a moment.

Nonwithstanding that you can't really do anything beyond minimum wage with a highschool diploma (barring you are incredibly gifted and get a college scholarship), imagine if there were no public schools. That's the Capitalist scenario for education - unless you're born into money, you get no education whatsoever.

 

[Dys]

In the absolute, there's no way capitalism can ever benefit anyone who wasn't born into wealth.

Thats simply not true.

You misunderstand how it works then. Go read some history and come to terms with what absolute capitalism is. Short of violence or a revolution, the cycle cannot be broken. You can't really work your way up to wealth when the rich own all means of transport, all means of housing and all means of sustainable. Money makes money, and it gives power. Once you have power of someone (say, they rent your property and have no other options for accommodation) you can milk them and exploit their labor as much as you see fit. Even in our controlled environments most people would lose any hope at every financially growing if landowners were given complete control of the properties they own.

I could go on and describe how common law protects us from negligence and harm for third parties, but there's really no point. It's a pure and simple concept of a minority having all the power is bad, and having a more democratic system is relatively good.

My whole point is that people always praise capitalism, meaning the controlled-in-no-way-capitalism systems the western world has adopted and express distaste at absolute socialism.

 

[Skinny_Ninja]

Isn't this why shelters and half way homes are made? To help those in need.

Not in a 'True Capitalist' society. There's no profit in it unless the government funds it. How strongly did Americans fight the offer of free healthcare because it was 'socialist'?

It's not free healthcare when I still have to pay for it dude. Who's going to pay the hospital bills, the nurses, the IT techs that fix the equipment, and so forth. In anycase, even if I weren't insured there's tons of "Free Clinics" and I have been to one. In a world where everyone had a job that'd be fine and dandy. But free healthcare makes my taxes skyrocket and I'm barely making enough to support myself as it is.

This is life dude. If you want to live you have to work for it. You don't see a tiger giving a gazelle a free pass for the day because it's having money problems. We can't all live in a happy world where everyone listens to Barry Manilow, all food is free, and every women puts out no matter how ugly you are.

Why is Capitalism though "good"? Well maybe it's because socialism and communism don't work due to greed. If I got paid the same amount to work at McDonalds than I would to be a surgeon, then I'd obviously work at McDonalds. Now with Capitalism, you have to work for what you have and to essentially stay alive. If you can't make it, tough you're not working hard enough. Life ain't about freebies dude.

Capitalism works because people can dream big. You can put your mark on the world and make billions if you work hard and smart enough.

 

[Skeletor 0]

You got a better idea?

 

[mechanixis]

Ok... So if you get robbed of your money in a capitalistic society, you die?

According to capitalist ideals, there's really no reason why anyone should provide you with food when someone has robbed you of your sola bility to procure food, and thuis you'll starve to death... You know, unless you rob someone else that is...

In a communistic world there is no reason for anyone to provide better services and products. And your defense wast that they are internally motivated for "progress"

Why doesn't the same loophole apply to capitalism? Why can't people be internally motivated to do something despite it not being beneficial to themselves personally?

Well if people are internally motivated, then why do we need to create this addition motivation? To see who can create the best advertisements for products that, ultimately, don't move society forward or fulfill any real need? Meaningful inventions don't come from a desire to acquire money. Cheap, eye-catching ones do.

 

[mechanixis]

You got a better idea?

Yes! Several.

 

[Dana22]

Go read some history and come to terms with what absolute capitalism is.

There were no such thing as absolute capitalism in the history of mankind.

 

[Cody211282]

Because it works, and it proved it was better then communism during the cold war.

 

[Dags90]

Capitalism works because people can dream big. You can put your mark on the world and make billions if you work hard and smart enough.

You can, but social mobility is actually pretty fixed in most capitalist countries. You're at least as likely to go down the ladder as you are to go up, and it's still a pretty small chance. I think it's not incomparable to the lottery. Yeah, you could win, but you most likely won't.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Public schooling sucks but at least now you are given free chances to learn to read and write.
Now whether you wish to make your self smarter and get out of working minimum wage or not is your choice.

Really, take a look at the society around you. Do you seriously believe that the ability to read and write is actually going to CUT IT in such an aggressive and competetive business enviroment?

Thankfully I don't live in the U.S myself, but in a more socialist country that actually bothers to provide it's citizens with government sponsored higher education, while at the same time managing not to reduce the quality of the education (unlike the U.S where public education = shit in comparison toprivate education that you have to pay for out of your own pocket).

But despite the relatively socialist community in which I live, reading and writing won't get me very far. And it certainly won't MAKE me smarter just because I read a lot.

Education isn't only about READING, it's about being taught how to develop your intellect while absorbing information at the same time. Something that schools are supposed to educate their students in.

But when the public schools are shit then evidently they fail in doing that. So it doesn't really matter if you can read or write in the long run. Sure it might be crucial to be able to do that, but what about all the other crucial skills needed to simply get by in todays society? Using a computer for instance (pretty fucking important these days, and that's not the only cruical skill needed).

And then we're discounting the skills, contacts and social status needed to actually ADVANCE your living standards.

It's abundantly clear that being able to do so as a poor person in a capitalist society has more to do with sheer luck than actual ability. But of course, the naive capitalists with middle class to upper class backgrounds are completely oblivious to these facts...

 

[Skeletor 0]

You got a better idea?

Yes! Several.

okay... any that would actually work?
(no offense intended!)

 

[crimsonshrouds]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

Ok you really backpeddled there.
So the people start working in that industry that is developing or as people have been doing in these recent economic times are getting better education and more skill sets for jobs.

You think their would be no fallout from a change like that in a communist or socialist system? You are making a lot of false assumptions here.

The larger a system no matter what it is, if their is a huge failure their is going to be massive fallout. Think of a clock full of gears if one gear is out of alignment the clock doesn't work. So if a government is supporting every body then a large amount of people lose their jobs for whatever reason. That government is going to be put under a huge amount of strain and will be unable to support everybody like it was established.

Alright, alright, granted. There's going to be fallout regardless.

How about this: you're born poor. You aren't a genius with a brilliant new invention. You can't afford an education. The most you can hope to do is work a minimum wage job and scrape by. Is this deserved?

Ok more false assumptions and i have to get off im sleepy.
So i guess in our society right now thier are no ways to better yourself.
Wow!
Public schooling sucks but at least now you are given free chances to learn to read and write.
Now whether you wish to make your self smarter and get out of working minimum wage or not is your choice.

I cannot remember the man's name but he was a slave in the south and he did everything he could to learn how to read and he fled to the north where he put his new found skills to work. i will hopefully remember this man's name when i get some sleep.

This is why i love responsibility it is always the individuals burden. People better themselves all the time and then there are people who do not and make excuses saying they are disadvantaged.

Their is always a choice and the responsibility is weighed on the person and that is why people flee to government control. They fear responsibility.

The only reason we have public schools is that public schools are paid for by the state. Non-Capitalist. Private schools, on the other hand, cost huge sums of money to attend. Imagine the ratio of privately-educated Americans to publicly-educated ones for a moment.

Nonwithstanding that you can't really do anything beyond minimum wage with a highschool diploma (barring you are incredibly gifted and get a college scholarship), imagine if there were no public schools. That's the Capitalist scenario for education - unless you're born into money, you get no education whatsoever.

ok... im talking about actual facts you are talking about what-ifs. since i don't support anarcho-capitalism your going to have to ask somebody else. and im getting some sleep.

 

[Skinny_Ninja]

Capitalism works because people can dream big. You can put your mark on the world and make billions if you work hard and smart enough.

You can, but social mobility is actually pretty fixed in most capitalist countries. You're at least as likely to go down the ladder as you are to go up, and it's still a pretty small chance. I think it's not incomparable to the lottery. Yeah, you could win, but you most likely won't.

Then you have a world where everything is predetermined you never have a chance to win e.g. Socialism. One may not have a big chance to score big, but they still have a chance. Just like people winning the lottery. It's all about hope. Let those dream big and they will accomplish great things. Take away their dreams and they will die.