Why do people scream "Feminist Agenda" when there is a female lead?
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This is the funniest of these types of threads I've read and I'm not even drunk yet.
To recap: Feminists are stupid. Something about sexbots. You watch Twilight. One thing that remains unclear is how the Professor Layton games objectify and/or marginalize men.Gengisgame said:
Are the two things mutually exclusive? I'm not so sure.MrFalconfly said:
People have me slightly worried about the new Star Wars. I don't care if the main character is female, but I don't want it to be laden with corny girl power messages either. No choice but to reserve judgement, I suppose.
I forgot about this actually good point though I wouldn't really say this is a great example of any sorta trend since it is literally a one off forum post where everyone disagreed in the comments. They also did back up their claims with examples and there was a lot of feminist media going on about how it was a feminist show at the time which is what could have set the author off to begin with.MarsAtlas said:
It is a good example though I just don't think it is indicative of a trend by any stretch. Maybe I am wrong please prove me wrong if you have more great examples!
I pay a lot of attention to feminism movement in general because I find it interesting and I definitely don't think it is a vocal minority. Pretty much all of the feminist theory and media just reeks of sexism against men and it shows. If you even begin to pay attention to gender politics from anything outside of the feminist perspective you quickly start to see how warped the movement is. The problem is people always defend feminism and do no research of anything outside feminism to the point that I see people saying they know all about the MRA and quote feminist articles rather than actually going to a MRA website. Its brutal.WinterWyvern said:
That sort of false generalisation would probably work better if there weren't a large number of people in the group you're generalising active on the same forum.aba1 said:
Except I see people I consider to be man hating feminist on here all the time. In general if you believe in "patriarchy theory", "rape culture", "cultural appropriation", "micro aggression", "mansplaining", "male privilege", "toxic masculinity" and the list goes on then I consider you to be a man hating feminist.thaluikhain said:
I get sexist comments made to me all the time from feminists I just expect it at this point. Literally yesterday I was twice dismissed purely by my gender and race from two different feminists at work. That is just work not even getting into online activities and media in general.
Whenever I hear the word "controversy", I immediately jump to the conclusion that nearby morons are turning their confusion into an arguement. That said, whenever I hear the words "feminist agenda", I immediately jump to the conclusion that a nearby entertainment IP currently contains an interesting, well written, and well portrayed female character.
Feminist agenda is code for interesting, well written, and well portrayed female character.
Feminist agenda is code for interesting, well written, and well portrayed female character.
There are going to be Garwulf's Corner installments coming up on some of this stuff in the next block (translation: the six installments between Emails from the Edge), but I think part of it is outrage culture + a 24 hour news cycle...and I really don't think the reality is quite as bad as the rhetoric makes it look.
Here's the thing: from what I've seen, outrage culture feeds on anger (yes, I know, "no shit, Garwulf"). However, it also relies on writers and commentators scouring social media for something to be angry about, and then magnifying its importance.
Take Fury Road, for example. Most people went to the movie, watched it, and came out going "Holy CRAP that was GOOD!" (On a related note, I watched Fury Road, and HOLY CRAP it was GOOD!) A small number of people in the MRA movement screamed about a feminist agenda and demanded a boycott. Some commentators found the demands, published them, and reacted as though the MRAs were a mainstream movement, rather than a tiny minority with little or no ability to actually affect the box office. The MRAs then reacted against the commentators, and before you know it, you've got this massive take-no-prisoners war of words where each side is taking a position of "you're with us or against us." And, when that happens, it makes what is actually something very marginal look a lot bigger and more threatening, and pushes people into taking sides who otherwise would have just shrugged and moved on.
10 or 15 years ago, the people demanding a boycott would have been written off as cranks and either ignored or provided coverage along the lines of "here's this strange thing this tiny minority is doing." Today, in this really quite terrible hair-trigger media environment, I think we've lost a lot of the perspective that allows us to look at a bunch of cranks demanding something unreasonable and declare, "this is NOT newsworthy."
The rhetoric, on the other hand, is pretty heartbreaking, especially when you can remember a time when it wasn't this bad.
Here's the thing: from what I've seen, outrage culture feeds on anger (yes, I know, "no shit, Garwulf"). However, it also relies on writers and commentators scouring social media for something to be angry about, and then magnifying its importance.
Take Fury Road, for example. Most people went to the movie, watched it, and came out going "Holy CRAP that was GOOD!" (On a related note, I watched Fury Road, and HOLY CRAP it was GOOD!) A small number of people in the MRA movement screamed about a feminist agenda and demanded a boycott. Some commentators found the demands, published them, and reacted as though the MRAs were a mainstream movement, rather than a tiny minority with little or no ability to actually affect the box office. The MRAs then reacted against the commentators, and before you know it, you've got this massive take-no-prisoners war of words where each side is taking a position of "you're with us or against us." And, when that happens, it makes what is actually something very marginal look a lot bigger and more threatening, and pushes people into taking sides who otherwise would have just shrugged and moved on.
10 or 15 years ago, the people demanding a boycott would have been written off as cranks and either ignored or provided coverage along the lines of "here's this strange thing this tiny minority is doing." Today, in this really quite terrible hair-trigger media environment, I think we've lost a lot of the perspective that allows us to look at a bunch of cranks demanding something unreasonable and declare, "this is NOT newsworthy."
The rhetoric, on the other hand, is pretty heartbreaking, especially when you can remember a time when it wasn't this bad.
Do you mind sourcing that MRA site? I was looking into this one at one point and as far as I can tell there was a singular PUA blog and feminists turned it into all MRAs by the end of the day. Meanwhile many of the leaders in the MRA movement enjoyed the film and even said people should go see it.Kingjackl said:
Fappy said:
No no no. Do not fear. It's nothing to do with that. It's just a joke about Vader being Luke's father. Wait? Is that still a spoiler ? Sorry.anthony87 said:
Honestly I'm not that kind of person to spoil something people enjoy. Apart from... Jesus died! That's the Bible spoiled.
I may point out that everything can me any *-ism with enough confirmation bias.Parasondox said:
In school we had intresting seminar paper as an example in which it was easily proven that Lord of the Ring for example is racist.
I haven't seen Jessica Jones or the new Star Wars so I will go with what I have seen: Mad Max - Fury Road.
For me it is not Furiosa. She is pretty cool, I like her.
What however annoyed me a little bit, and I may at this point remind you that I enjoyed Fury Road tremendously, is the in your face gender politics that the movie sometimes displays.
For starters the plot revolves around women not being objects and it gets repeated over and over.
All plot related bad guys are: Guys.
All plot related decent people are: Women.
The two plot related exceptions needed to be convinced by the women.
When they throw the kid off the truck the women basically tell him that its men?s fault that the world is the way it is.
Once they meet up with the tribe women one tells the other that she is a good shoot to which the other says: ?I thought we are better than that.? Implying that women are supposed to be inherently benevolent or something.
Pretty meh writting in these instances if you ask me.
My only problem is that the mold for those kind of characters tend to be mostly (physically) strong and skilled female characters with a lot of badass moments without adding too much to them. You don't see them fail / suck / make a fool of themselves or have any other character trait that would make them appear more... human, I guess? (although there are definitely types of movies where that is more than fine). It also doesn't help that quite a lot of the actors that portray those characters are spindly as balls.
And as a side note: considering the attention that feminism is getting in the media ( and the rather vocal part of it on twitter and whatever) , it would be silly to think that it doesn't have any kind of influence on character choices, etc.
And as a side note: considering the attention that feminism is getting in the media ( and the rather vocal part of it on twitter and whatever) , it would be silly to think that it doesn't have any kind of influence on character choices, etc.
Just stay away from the internet. Even with content that has nothing to do with Star Wars, assholes will still try to ruin things.Fappy said:
BloatedGuppy said:
This fanaticism is worse than I thought. I'd better go up my contribution to rational thinking people on Patreon so they can stop this.
While this notion appears to be prevalent, I'd more make the point that these claims are exaggerated at best and outright fabricated at worst. So it's not even so much "two wrongs make a right," it's "we're claiming they did it also."Pluvia said:
And then trying to infer some sort of moral high ground for doing that which we despise.
I was about to yell at you for spoilers, but I'm glad you told me. People need to be aware of this blatant propaganda that women exist.Fox12 said:
Or that it's done because people actually want it that way. As opposed to being some sort of elaborate plot to ruin media.WinterWyvern said:
It's not even wrong to notice people want more women, or notice a dearth of women, and include one (or more, though now I'm talking crazy). Hell, it's not even necessarily feminism, since feminism is often used as a snarl word for [people who disagree with me about women].