Why does America fear/distrust it's government?

[Crazycat690]

Easy, the US is supposed to be a land of freedom, while the government is trying to control everything and ban anything that's immoral according to religious nutjobs. I'd be shitting bricks if I was a US citizen.

However living in Finland, sure the governemnt does control alot, but atleast they don't try to ban everything they don't like.

 

[pizzapicante27]

Ah dont worry thats just common paranoia against a capitalistic government (yours is kinda socialist with universal healthcare and whatnot), here in Mexico whe are the same, mainly because our government doesnt frown on using the army to massacre civilians but hey every country has their own problems

 

[thevillageidiot13]

Anybody who finds success in politics has built his or her career on power, money, and lies. Very few politicians are serious about change in a positive direction -- JFK, Jimmy Carter, LaGuardia; the rest only really care about lining their own pockets, and won't raise a finger for the people if it doesn't guarantee another term in office or another dollar in their wallets.

Also, historically, virtually everything the U.S. government has done rings of hypocrisy. To challenge the spread of communism, it has actively supported tyrannical dictatorships in the Middle East and North Africa -- governments that were just as corrupt and twisted. Even in the face of the most ardent anti-war movement in the history of the nation, it managed to stay at war in Vietnam for almost an entire decade, longer than any conflict the U.S. had ever been involved in before. It has cut substantial funding from schools, welfare programs, hospitals, and other public services in order to fight wars in the Middle East that we now know are hoaxes. How can a government that does these things refer to itself a force for democracy and justice, an entity for the people and by the people?

 

[spartan231490]

I was flicking through the American health service thread, and noticed that the main argument that the main argument against free healthcare was that they didn't want the government controlling it.
Most American's I've talked to also seem to distrust their government, a lot more than Europe does. Your constitution also seems to have been designed from the ground up to prevent the government from having anything more than a fringe affect on anything.

So, why does America distrust it's government so much more than Europe?

And, for comparison, I live it the UK, and we generally get on ok.

Here's a direct answer: This country was founded by people who'd literally fought against a tyrannical governing system and did not want to institute another government where the voice of the People were cast aside by the ruling elite in favor of "we know better than you". Its in America's blood to distrust those in power, because they're in power and can't be trusted. Our Founders recognized the fallibility of humanity, that we're all imperfect beings and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Therefore our Constitution was designed not to give power to the Government, but give power to the People.

Communism, as designed by Karl Marx and NOT Stalin or Lenin is designed to do much the same thing. Yet America hates Communists more than quite possibly anything else that has, does, will and can exist ever.

Difference being, Communism (supposedly) rewards everyone equally no matter if they make an A effort or a D- effort. It also fantasizes about human beings being inherently good and can be expected to treat each other equally and fairly. Equality isn't everyone gets the same things, its the idea that we're equally free to choose our paths in life, not have them chosen for us. In theory it sounds good but proven in practice, communism is oppressive and self-defeating. IF its such a great idea, how is it that every country its been practiced in is also high on human rights violations?

'In theory it sounds good but proven in practice, communism is oppressive and self-defeating. IF its such a great idea, how is it that every country its been practiced in is also high on human rights violations?'

Here's the thing. A Communist Dictatorship is an oxymoron. If a 'Communist' nation is oppressive, then it isn't Communist. That's just not how Communism works. A Communist Government has very little power.

Besides, the Democratic Republic model (What the US has) hasn't been working either, and it honestly doesn't even sound great in theory. It's the majority telling the minority how to live in theory, but in practice...

Well, what was Obama's public approval rating at last count? 11%? Well, he's who you voted in. Or if you DIDN'T vote for him...well, he got elected anyway, didn't he? That would be the failing of a DR.

A communist dictatorship isn't an oxymoron. Communism is an economic system where everyone gets paid the same, and a political system where everyone is treated the same. If everyone is equally oppressed, then it's still communism.

The Democratic Republic model works the best of any that I've looked at, and it has the best theory. Do you want to know why our opinions on that subject differ even with identical information. Because we have different values. I believe that freedom is quite literally, the absolute highest good possible. I would rather be dead, than a slave. The democratic republic model is the best with this value system because it allows the common people the opportunity to watch and limit their government. This is necessary because a government is made up of "people, usually notably, ungoverned." When given power, most humans will abuse it, that's just the way it works, so there must be a system to watch them. Unfortunately, Americans have recently declined to take advantage of this opportunity, but the opportunity remains available. Yes, there are many many flaws in the execution of this system, and a few flaws in the system itself, but this is true of any system, IMO others far more than our own.

If communism is such a great system, move to China. I'll take my US system. I'll try to improve it in any way I can, because it does have problems, but at the end of the day, it's still the best system that I've heard of.

 

[spartan231490]

For me, it's because the government isn't really ours. There's so many different special interests and corporate shills, I honestly don't see how anyone represents me.

spartan231490:
Listen, if you're really trying to understand American culture, there is one very important fact that you need to understand first. It is the basis of most of the differences between America and other countries. We value freedom, over safety. "Those who sacrifice freedom for a little temporary security, deserve neither." This is one of the core beliefs of our culture. That is why we have loose gun control, and that is why we dislike socialism, or any form of government regulation really.

There are other differences of course, but that is the core difference, as far as I can tell.

Then how do you explain the Patriot Act? We are just as prone to panicking and giving away our rights until we feel safe. Every time the U.S. is attacked or under the threat of attack we revert to fascistic systems, usually with discrimination.

The patriot act had a lot of opposition. Our government has become somewhat abusive lately, the Patriot act being a great example of this. There were no people asking for the Patriot act, that came straight from the government. And just because we may be forced to accept some restrictions to our freedoms during a panic time, doesn't change the fact that we still value freedom more than security and that we will not accept something permanent that restricts our rights, if we have any choice.

they keep saying that, and yet american citizens are under a lot harsher control and restrictions than those of almost all other western nations. i think it's just something that they like to keep telling themselves. and yes, i have lived in the u.s., as well as several other first world contries.

How are we under stricter control and restrictions?

 

[thevillageidiot13]

For me, it's because the government isn't really ours. There's so many different special interests and corporate shills, I honestly don't see how anyone represents me.

spartan231490:
Listen, if you're really trying to understand American culture, there is one very important fact that you need to understand first. It is the basis of most of the differences between America and other countries. We value freedom, over safety. "Those who sacrifice freedom for a little temporary security, deserve neither." This is one of the core beliefs of our culture. That is why we have loose gun control, and that is why we dislike socialism, or any form of government regulation really.

There are other differences of course, but that is the core difference, as far as I can tell.

Then how do you explain the Patriot Act? We are just as prone to panicking and giving away our rights until we feel safe. Every time the U.S. is attacked or under the threat of attack we revert to fascistic systems, usually with discrimination.

The patriot act had a lot of opposition. Our government has become somewhat abusive lately, the Patriot act being a great example of this. There were no people asking for the Patriot act, that came straight from the government. And just because we may be forced to accept some restrictions to our freedoms during a panic time, doesn't change the fact that we still value freedom more than security and that we will not accept something permanent that restricts our rights, if we have any choice.

they keep saying that, and yet american citizens are under a lot harsher control and restrictions than those of almost all other western nations. i think it's just something that they like to keep telling themselves. and yes, i have lived in the u.s., as well as several other first world contries.

How are we under stricter control and restrictions?

Try going into an airport. You'll figure it out quickly enough.

 

[thevillageidiot13]

Division and stereotyping, ultimately. Ignoring the historical elements for a moment and focusing only on modern America, you've got a two-party system that has turned more antagonistic in my lifetime then I think it had ever been beforehand, to the point where the old joke about two Senators being unable to agree to the color of the sky, or arguing over what to have for lunch till both starve, is a lot less funny now. It's made worse by the fact that each time one person in one party screws up- as, y'know, humans are wont to do, being flawed entities and all -everyone outside of said party tends to identify the person party-first, as if they were part of a hive mind. A Democratic senator was taking bribes? All Democrats are corrupt! A Republican congressman said a racial slur? All Republicans are racists! Repeat over and over to the point where, even if you logically disagreed with all the individual cases, you'd still be left with a bad taste in your mouth.

That's not even getting into the whole 'grass is greener' effect. Person A leaves a mess after being in office, and Person B is radically different and vows to fix it. He gets voted in, and people expect Person B to fix it... immediately. Not in a few months, not in a year, RIGHT AWAY. There's other, more crucial matters of state to attend to? Tough, why aren't you fixing THIS first? The voters get disillusioned, and inevitably end up looking to vote in Person C to fix things, thus breaking up any consistency in the office... self-perpetuating cycle of ineffectiveness that looks- and admittedly sometimes is -like bald-faced lies.

Dude, high-five right here. You just got mad respect from me.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I was flicking through the American health service thread, and noticed that the main argument that the main argument against free healthcare was that they didn't want the government controlling it.
Most American's I've talked to also seem to distrust their government, a lot more than Europe does. Your constitution also seems to have been designed from the ground up to prevent the government from having anything more than a fringe affect on anything.

So, why does America distrust it's government so much more than Europe?

And, for comparison, I live it the UK, and we generally get on ok.

Here's a direct answer: This country was founded by people who'd literally fought against a tyrannical governing system and did not want to institute another government where the voice of the People were cast aside by the ruling elite in favor of "we know better than you". Its in America's blood to distrust those in power, because they're in power and can't be trusted. Our Founders recognized the fallibility of humanity, that we're all imperfect beings and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Therefore our Constitution was designed not to give power to the Government, but give power to the People.

Communism, as designed by Karl Marx and NOT Stalin or Lenin is designed to do much the same thing. Yet America hates Communists more than quite possibly anything else that has, does, will and can exist ever.

Difference being, Communism (supposedly) rewards everyone equally no matter if they make an A effort or a D- effort. It also fantasizes about human beings being inherently good and can be expected to treat each other equally and fairly. Equality isn't everyone gets the same things, its the idea that we're equally free to choose our paths in life, not have them chosen for us. In theory it sounds good but proven in practice, communism is oppressive and self-defeating. IF its such a great idea, how is it that every country its been practiced in is also high on human rights violations?

If you read the Communist Manifesto, the wording is more like "To each according to his ability; to each according to his need".
According to that line, those who work harder would get more, though every person would get enough. The only reason that it didn't work is indeed because people are not inherently good.

I was flicking through the American health service thread, and noticed that the main argument that the main argument against free healthcare was that they didn't want the government controlling it.
Most American's I've talked to also seem to distrust their government, a lot more than Europe does. Your constitution also seems to have been designed from the ground up to prevent the government from having anything more than a fringe affect on anything.

So, why does America distrust it's government so much more than Europe?

And, for comparison, I live it the UK, and we generally get on ok.

Here's a direct answer: This country was founded by people who'd literally fought against a tyrannical governing system and did not want to institute another government where the voice of the People were cast aside by the ruling elite in favor of "we know better than you". Its in America's blood to distrust those in power, because they're in power and can't be trusted. Our Founders recognized the fallibility of humanity, that we're all imperfect beings and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Therefore our Constitution was designed not to give power to the Government, but give power to the People.

Communism, as designed by Karl Marx and NOT Stalin or Lenin is designed to do much the same thing. Yet America hates Communists more than quite possibly anything else that has, does, will and can exist ever.

Difference being, Communism (supposedly) rewards everyone equally no matter if they make an A effort or a D- effort. It also fantasizes about human beings being inherently good and can be expected to treat each other equally and fairly. Equality isn't everyone gets the same things, its the idea that we're equally free to choose our paths in life, not have them chosen for us. In theory it sounds good but proven in practice, communism is oppressive and self-defeating. IF its such a great idea, how is it that every country its been practiced in is also high on human rights violations?

'In theory it sounds good but proven in practice, communism is oppressive and self-defeating. IF its such a great idea, how is it that every country its been practiced in is also high on human rights violations?'

Here's the thing. A Communist Dictatorship is an oxymoron. If a 'Communist' nation is oppressive, then it isn't Communist. That's just not how Communism works. A Communist Government has very little power.

Besides, the Democratic Republic model (What the US has) hasn't been working either, and it honestly doesn't even sound great in theory. It's the majority telling the minority how to live in theory, but in practice...

Well, what was Obama's public approval rating at last count? 11%? Well, he's who you voted in. Or if you DIDN'T vote for him...well, he got elected anyway, didn't he? That would be the failing of a DR.

Edit: Forgot a point. You're correct in that, in a Communist society, there wouldn't be anyone who wanted to succeed for the sake of what comes with success. However, that just means that people in a particular field are there because they WANT to be. Not because they were in it for the money, or the fame.

Here is an example. In America, a girl's father dies from cancer. Because of that, she wants to become a Doctor, specifically a cancer researcher and help find some kind of cure. If she doesn't have enough money or connections, it's possible that she may never be able to get into Medical school.

In a Communist country, she could, provided that she is intelligent enough to make it thought the coursework.

Communism doesn't kill ambition, it encourages it...it just doesn't encourage ambition for ambition's sake.

I was flicking through the American health service thread, and noticed that the main argument that the main argument against free healthcare was that they didn't want the government controlling it.
Most American's I've talked to also seem to distrust their government, a lot more than Europe does. Your constitution also seems to have been designed from the ground up to prevent the government from having anything more than a fringe affect on anything.

So, why does America distrust it's government so much more than Europe?

And, for comparison, I live it the UK, and we generally get on ok.

Here's a direct answer: This country was founded by people who'd literally fought against a tyrannical governing system and did not want to institute another government where the voice of the People were cast aside by the ruling elite in favor of "we know better than you". Its in America's blood to distrust those in power, because they're in power and can't be trusted. Our Founders recognized the fallibility of humanity, that we're all imperfect beings and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Therefore our Constitution was designed not to give power to the Government, but give power to the People.

Communism, as designed by Karl Marx and NOT Stalin or Lenin is designed to do much the same thing. Yet America hates Communists more than quite possibly anything else that has, does, will and can exist ever.

Difference being, Communism (supposedly) rewards everyone equally no matter if they make an A effort or a D- effort. It also fantasizes about human beings being inherently good and can be expected to treat each other equally and fairly. Equality isn't everyone gets the same things, its the idea that we're equally free to choose our paths in life, not have them chosen for us. In theory it sounds good but proven in practice, communism is oppressive and self-defeating. IF its such a great idea, how is it that every country its been practiced in is also high on human rights violations?

'In theory it sounds good but proven in practice, communism is oppressive and self-defeating. IF its such a great idea, how is it that every country its been practiced in is also high on human rights violations?'

Here's the thing. A Communist Dictatorship is an oxymoron. If a 'Communist' nation is oppressive, then it isn't Communist. That's just not how Communism works. A Communist Government has very little power.

Besides, the Democratic Republic model (What the US has) hasn't been working either, and it honestly doesn't even sound great in theory. It's the majority telling the minority how to live in theory, but in practice...

Well, what was Obama's public approval rating at last count? 11%? Well, he's who you voted in. Or if you DIDN'T vote for him...well, he got elected anyway, didn't he? That would be the failing of a DR.

Edit: Forgot a point. You're correct in that, in a Communist society, there wouldn't be anyone who wanted to succeed for the sake of what comes with success. However, that just means that people in a particular field are there because they WANT to be. Not because they were in it for the money, or the fame.

Here is an example. In America, a girl's father dies from cancer. Because of that, she wants to become a Doctor, specifically a cancer researcher and help find some kind of cure. If she doesn't have enough money or connections, it's possible that she may never be able to get into Medical school.

In a Communist country, she could, provided that she is intelligent enough to make it thought the coursework.

Communism doesn't kill ambition, it encourages it...it just doesn't encourage ambition for ambition's sake.

I agree that college/universities are extremely overpriced and ruled by elitists. To paraphrase a movie (Accepted) "the prestige of a school is not how many people it lets in, but how many it rejects".
Point 2: Obama's election in no way shows a failure of the DR. I never liked the man because of his lack of experience and his voting record in the Senate, plus the infatuation of the media with him. But he wasn't voted in for life, just a 4 year term. Upon which gives the American public time to see whether or not the ones who voted for him made an informed choice or not. And given the current state of his approval, he probably won't make 2nd term. I also think his election to the Presidency was a wake-up call to the "my vote don't count" crowd, that everyone who has an interest in how their country is run should care, should educate themselves on who's being nominated and should get out and vote.
Our biggest problem in this country is that we've become complacent and allowed the government too much leeway in what they do. With the advent of the Tea Parties (who are mostly good and honest citizens, not the vile racist hatemongers certain media outlets portray them to be) we've shown that people have the power to change this country, to affect the outcomes of bad decisions and change things before they go too far.
What this country needs is to learn to be unified at all times, even if we disagree on points here and there. That we're all Americans, not divided by race or class but united in the fact that we're all able to affect our lives and make decisions for ourselves. That our government exists at our whim, not because they're "born to rule". We've become lazy, and now we need to shake off that lethargy and take back the power we've always had.
I'm an American Patriot, though I don't always agree with what is done in the name of the country or under our flag, I still love this country and what it was originally founded upon. Hard work for great rewards, freedom and equality to be what we want to be (not equality decided by government). I don't blindly wave the flag and say "America is great" and blind myself to things that have happened in our name, I wave it and say "America is great" despite what has been done in its name. We're great because at heart our people are caring and giving, charitable and altruistic. Not because we're required to be, but because we want to be.

 

[spartan231490]

For me, it's because the government isn't really ours. There's so many different special interests and corporate shills, I honestly don't see how anyone represents me.

spartan231490:
Listen, if you're really trying to understand American culture, there is one very important fact that you need to understand first. It is the basis of most of the differences between America and other countries. We value freedom, over safety. "Those who sacrifice freedom for a little temporary security, deserve neither." This is one of the core beliefs of our culture. That is why we have loose gun control, and that is why we dislike socialism, or any form of government regulation really.

There are other differences of course, but that is the core difference, as far as I can tell.

Then how do you explain the Patriot Act? We are just as prone to panicking and giving away our rights until we feel safe. Every time the U.S. is attacked or under the threat of attack we revert to fascistic systems, usually with discrimination.

The patriot act had a lot of opposition. Our government has become somewhat abusive lately, the Patriot act being a great example of this. There were no people asking for the Patriot act, that came straight from the government. And just because we may be forced to accept some restrictions to our freedoms during a panic time, doesn't change the fact that we still value freedom more than security and that we will not accept something permanent that restricts our rights, if we have any choice.

they keep saying that, and yet american citizens are under a lot harsher control and restrictions than those of almost all other western nations. i think it's just something that they like to keep telling themselves. and yes, i have lived in the u.s., as well as several other first world contries.

How are we under stricter control and restrictions?

Try going into an airport. You'll figure it out quickly enough.

Going into an airport is a choice. It's not a restriction of freedom, because you can choose to drive, or train, or bus, to wherever you are going. In effect, you are entering into a contract with the airport. In order to fly on our plane, you have to fulfill certain safety protocols.

 

[teqrevisited]

I thought that was normal. I don't know anyone who trusts the UK government, and certainly noone that trusts the US government.

 

[LCP]

I don't know any government that is 100% trusted by their people

 

[thevillageidiot13]

For me, it's because the government isn't really ours. There's so many different special interests and corporate shills, I honestly don't see how anyone represents me.

spartan231490:
Listen, if you're really trying to understand American culture, there is one very important fact that you need to understand first. It is the basis of most of the differences between America and other countries. We value freedom, over safety. "Those who sacrifice freedom for a little temporary security, deserve neither." This is one of the core beliefs of our culture. That is why we have loose gun control, and that is why we dislike socialism, or any form of government regulation really.

There are other differences of course, but that is the core difference, as far as I can tell.

Then how do you explain the Patriot Act? We are just as prone to panicking and giving away our rights until we feel safe. Every time the U.S. is attacked or under the threat of attack we revert to fascistic systems, usually with discrimination.

The patriot act had a lot of opposition. Our government has become somewhat abusive lately, the Patriot act being a great example of this. There were no people asking for the Patriot act, that came straight from the government. And just because we may be forced to accept some restrictions to our freedoms during a panic time, doesn't change the fact that we still value freedom more than security and that we will not accept something permanent that restricts our rights, if we have any choice.

they keep saying that, and yet american citizens are under a lot harsher control and restrictions than those of almost all other western nations. i think it's just something that they like to keep telling themselves. and yes, i have lived in the u.s., as well as several other first world contries.

How are we under stricter control and restrictions?

Try going into an airport. You'll figure it out quickly enough.

Going into an airport is a choice. It's not a restriction of freedom, because you can choose to drive, or train, or bus, to wherever you are going. In effect, you are entering into a contract with the airport. In order to fly on our plane, you have to fulfill certain safety protocols.

Your question was "How are we under stricter control and regulations?" Sure, going into an airport is a choice, but that doesn't change the fact that the government is controlling the various modes of transportation available to us.

The question you posed wasn't about choice or not. It was about how the government is putting the lives of its people under stricter and stricter regulation, and the fact of the matter is that airport security has only gotten tighter and tighter over the last 10 years.

 

[Kathinka]

snip

For me, it's because the government isn't really ours. There's so many different special interests and corporate shills, I honestly don't see how anyone represents me.

spartan231490:
Listen, if you're really trying to understand American culture, there is one very important fact that you need to understand first. It is the basis of most of the differences between America and other countries. We value freedom, over safety. "Those who sacrifice freedom for a little temporary security, deserve neither." This is one of the core beliefs of our culture. That is why we have loose gun control, and that is why we dislike socialism, or any form of government regulation really.

There are other differences of course, but that is the core difference, as far as I can tell.

Then how do you explain the Patriot Act? We are just as prone to panicking and giving away our rights until we feel safe. Every time the U.S. is attacked or under the threat of attack we revert to fascistic systems, usually with discrimination.

The patriot act had a lot of opposition. Our government has become somewhat abusive lately, the Patriot act being a great example of this. There were no people asking for the Patriot act, that came straight from the government. And just because we may be forced to accept some restrictions to our freedoms during a panic time, doesn't change the fact that we still value freedom more than security and that we will not accept something permanent that restricts our rights, if we have any choice.

they keep saying that, and yet american citizens are under a lot harsher control and restrictions than those of almost all other western nations. i think it's just something that they like to keep telling themselves. and yes, i have lived in the u.s., as well as several other first world contries.

How are we under stricter control and restrictions?

Try going into an airport. You'll figure it out quickly enough.

xD

something in that direction.

but i was actually refering to other stuff.
it starts with basic political decisions. you have two parties that are essentially identical. that puts your political "freedom" somewhere in the vicinity of east germany in the fifties. basic human rights are intruded by the governement on a daily basis. gun control, the example you brought, is more liberal in some european nations too. as i understand it a lot of states don't permit firearms.
the entire ruleset of society is dictated by wealthy white christians. anti islamic sentiments are the social norm, kind of like antisemitism was in the twenties and thirties. the restrictions start with simple and little things, like in school. this whole detention-suspension-expellation-system is pretty unique to the states, in no other country i've been to school was there ever more needed than a "don't do it" by the teacher.
there is so many tiny nuances that form the complete picture, i can't count all of them down here obviously. had you ever lived outside the u.s. for an extended period of time (maybe you'll get the opportunity one day), you'd soon see that it's actually as restrictive and authoritarian as it gets without turning into a full blown dictatorship (though i would under no circumstances consider the u.s. a democracy. the days when the people actually had influence of the nations course are long over.)

 

[XHolySmokesX]

America is a pretty big country. 300,000,000 people 52 states. Each stat has it's own government that can create it's own laws.

My persOnal opinion is that the goveRnmental system is too Unnorganised and gives too many People too much power whilst basing most, if not all, desCisions on the economical benefiTs to those in goveRnment.

(10 points if you can find the hidden word)

As i hail from the United kingdom, i would like to give an honourable mention to the british government. If you like governments that never get anything done and listen to the wrong type of people (criminals, religeous extremists, selfish money obsessed buisness people, etc), then England is the place for you.

 

[Benpasko]

If you read the Communist Manifesto, the wording is more like "To each according to his ability; to each according to his need".
According to that line, those who work harder would get more, though every person would get enough. The only reason that it didn't work is indeed because people are not inherently good.

This right here. I'm an American patriot, and even I acknowledge that Communism is a perfect idea. But reality isn't perfect, so true Communism just isn't possible.

And I don't mistrust my government at all. I believe it's made up of people who want to help the citizens. But even though I trust them, I know they're stupid at times, and can be misguided. And for the record, I'm a true Republican, but not one of the crazies you see in the media. Economic conservatism, not social.

 

[ParadoxHunter]

To be fair, if I were American, I would have plenty of reasons to distrust the government.

For starters, some presidents are unanimously agreed to be completely stupid, even by Americans, (Bush, for example, somehow stayed in power for two terms, or eight years) yet they somehow assume the role of the most powerful man in the world. Ronald Reagen was an actor, for crying out loud, do you need more proof? That would be like making Arnold Schwarzenegger governer of California... oh wait a minute...

Also, they are almost constantly at war. Hell, one of the first wars they had when they became independent was between themselves. They claim to have won both world wars, yet they joined both at the very last minute, and ended up with the same amount of casualties as we did, and ever since, they have been constantly getting into battles with small countries, like Vietnam and Iraq. Even then, their reasons for doing so are incredibly weak. Rather annoyingly, they have this nasty habit of involving other nations who otherwise wouldn't dare attack that country. For example, the USA went to war with Iraq, and they somehow got the UK involved, who at first didn't want to. (I personally blame our kiss-ass prime minister Tony Blair for that blunder) As a result, we have lost over 300 soldiers over a war that we had no part in in the first place.

Finally, they do not tell their people anything. The attacks on 9/11 were terrible, yes, and the lives lost were a great human tragedy, but if you look into further, you will find that there are a lot of problems with the story the government made public. For example, how does a building completely collapse downwards if it was hit on the side by a plane? For that matter, why did it collapse? The steel infrastructure couldn't have melted or have been weakened by the fire, and even if, for it to collapse like that, the fire would have to have spread somehow in two hours on all floors of the building and simultaneously melt the infrastructure. Looked into with more detail, you will eventually figure out that it was a very cruel and heartless financial move by the government, dressed up as an elaborate and completely impossible terrorist attack by five guys with cardboard cutters.

 

[Verlander]

Other countries are more used to, and aware, that governments don't work, and are useless as fuck, and hey have also learned to get on with their lives because there's fuck all they can do about it. In the US, they have yet to do that to the same extent. Although, I think you'll find plenty have the same attitude as we do in America.

Also, America seems to produce a lot of "internet anarchists", that is, people who say smack on the web, but fall into line in real life. I'm going to be charitable, and say that this is due to the sheer size of America, and the inability to motivate an actual physical presence as easily as it is to in places like Britain. In that respect, the government can be a pretty alienating and oppressive concept to the casual hopelessness of an individual's daily struggle.

Yeah, that's it.

 

[thevillageidiot13]

For me, it's because the government isn't really ours. There's so many different special interests and corporate shills, I honestly don't see how anyone represents me.

spartan231490:
Listen, if you're really trying to understand American culture, there is one very important fact that you need to understand first. It is the basis of most of the differences between America and other countries. We value freedom, over safety. "Those who sacrifice freedom for a little temporary security, deserve neither." This is one of the core beliefs of our culture. That is why we have loose gun control, and that is why we dislike socialism, or any form of government regulation really.

There are other differences of course, but that is the core difference, as far as I can tell.

Then how do you explain the Patriot Act? We are just as prone to panicking and giving away our rights until we feel safe. Every time the U.S. is attacked or under the threat of attack we revert to fascistic systems, usually with discrimination.

The patriot act had a lot of opposition. Our government has become somewhat abusive lately, the Patriot act being a great example of this. There were no people asking for the Patriot act, that came straight from the government. And just because we may be forced to accept some restrictions to our freedoms during a panic time, doesn't change the fact that we still value freedom more than security and that we will not accept something permanent that restricts our rights, if we have any choice.

they keep saying that, and yet american citizens are under a lot harsher control and restrictions than those of almost all other western nations. i think it's just something that they like to keep telling themselves. and yes, i have lived in the u.s., as well as several other first world contries.

How are we under stricter control and restrictions?

Try going into an airport. You'll figure it out quickly enough.

xD

something in that direction.

but i was actually refering to other stuff.
it starts with basic political decisions. you have two parties that are essentially identical. that puts your political "freedom" somewhere in the vicinity of east germany in the fifties. basic human rights are intruded by the governement on a daily basis. gun control, the example you brought, is more liberal in some european nations too. as i understand it a lot of states don't permit firearms.
the entire ruleset of society is dictated by wealthy white christians. anti islamic sentiments are the social norm, kind of like antisemitism was in the twenties and thirties. the restrictions start with simple and little things, like in school. this whole detention-suspension-expellation-system is pretty unique to the states, in no other country i've been to school was there ever more needed than a "don't do it" by the teacher.
there is so many tiny nuances that form the complete picture, i can't count all of them down here obviously. had you ever lived outside the u.s. for an extended period of time (maybe you'll get the opportunity one day), you'd soon see that it's actually as restrictive and authoritarian as it gets without turning into a full blown dictatorship (though i would under no circumstances consider the u.s. a democracy. the days when the people actually had influence of the nations course are long over.)

Also, keep in mind that, historically, the United States has been a very undemocratic and unjust place to live in, so, even though it claims to be built on principles of freedom, justice, and the power of the people, everything the U.S. does rings of hypocrisy -- the Vietnam War, McCarthyism, the Cold War containment policy, which put countless corrupt dictators in power in the name of halting the spread of communism.

So, yeah, I definitely agree with you there.

 

[let's rock]

Because our government is full of morons, really everything about it can be summed in that sentence. Clinton through Obama, every persedent has tried their best to fuck up this country as much as possible. Seriously I am pretty sure now that the government has a hazing ritual where you have to see how many brain cells you can kill by holding your breath in just one day, because nobody can be this stupid otherwise. As per why they don't want the government in controll of health care, they let the government controll the economy, look what happened there.

snip

I'll just leave this here... it says what needs to be said about it.

Truer words have never been worked into a demotivational poster before.

Yah, agreed

 

[Kathinka]

For me, it's because the government isn't really ours. There's so many different special interests and corporate shills, I honestly don't see how anyone represents me.

spartan231490:
Listen, if you're really trying to understand American culture, there is one very important fact that you need to understand first. It is the basis of most of the differences between America and other countries. We value freedom, over safety. "Those who sacrifice freedom for a little temporary security, deserve neither." This is one of the core beliefs of our culture. That is why we have loose gun control, and that is why we dislike socialism, or any form of government regulation really.

There are other differences of course, but that is the core difference, as far as I can tell.

Then how do you explain the Patriot Act? We are just as prone to panicking and giving away our rights until we feel safe. Every time the U.S. is attacked or under the threat of attack we revert to fascistic systems, usually with discrimination.

The patriot act had a lot of opposition. Our government has become somewhat abusive lately, the Patriot act being a great example of this. There were no people asking for the Patriot act, that came straight from the government. And just because we may be forced to accept some restrictions to our freedoms during a panic time, doesn't change the fact that we still value freedom more than security and that we will not accept something permanent that restricts our rights, if we have any choice.

they keep saying that, and yet american citizens are under a lot harsher control and restrictions than those of almost all other western nations. i think it's just something that they like to keep telling themselves. and yes, i have lived in the u.s., as well as several other first world contries.

How are we under stricter control and restrictions?

Try going into an airport. You'll figure it out quickly enough.

xD

something in that direction.

but i was actually refering to other stuff.
it starts with basic political decisions. you have two parties that are essentially identical. that puts your political "freedom" somewhere in the vicinity of east germany in the fifties. basic human rights are intruded by the governement on a daily basis. gun control, the example you brought, is more liberal in some european nations too. as i understand it a lot of states don't permit firearms.
the entire ruleset of society is dictated by wealthy white christians. anti islamic sentiments are the social norm, kind of like antisemitism was in the twenties and thirties. the restrictions start with simple and little things, like in school. this whole detention-suspension-expellation-system is pretty unique to the states, in no other country i've been to school was there ever more needed than a "don't do it" by the teacher.
there is so many tiny nuances that form the complete picture, i can't count all of them down here obviously. had you ever lived outside the u.s. for an extended period of time (maybe you'll get the opportunity one day), you'd soon see that it's actually as restrictive and authoritarian as it gets without turning into a full blown dictatorship (though i would under no circumstances consider the u.s. a democracy. the days when the people actually had influence of the nations course are long over.)

Also, keep in mind that, historically, the United States has been a very undemocratic and unjust place to live in, so, even though it claims to be built on principles of freedom, justice, and the power of the people, everything the U.S. does rings of hypocrisy -- the Vietnam War, McCarthyism, the Cold War containment policy, which put countless corrupt dictators in power in the name of halting the spread of communism.

So, yeah, I definitely agree with you there.

i partially agree, though i think that there was a time, back when the u.s. were founded, when it was pretty much ahead of most of the world. it was a crude and crappy form of democracy while everyplace else was still ruled by clerics and monarchs.
the problem is that they kept their crappy and crude form of democracy in place over the few centuries of their short history, while the governement systems of the rest of the world kept evolving.
but i'd still say that back then, when the founding fathers created the u.s. they were on to something. not their fault that the whole thing mutated into a warmongering, contentration camp toating abomination.