Why is bullying still an issue?

[Batou667]

I'm going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that very little bullying actually goes on in schools. What does happen is plenty of conflict, which is a natural consequence of cramming upwards of thirty young people with raging hormones into a single room, and that conflict is then interpreted as bullying by the "victim" (and just to make things complicated, often both sides will believe they are the victim).

Why is it an issue? Because large groups of humans will always find conflict. When will it stop? Never, because everybody thinks they're right and the other guy is the asshole. And - perhaps a contraversial idea - I honestly believe that a minority of people are victims by choice. What the psychological basis for this is, I don't know, but some people will find themselves being apparently victimised in any given circumstance. In education there's the theory of "learned helplessness", the idea that if every time a child has a problem an adult comes running, then the child will never develop strategies to solve problems, interact socially, regulate their own emotions, and so on. I can only guess that some children are mollycoddled to the extreme that they can't take any kind of failure, rebuke or rejection without interpreting the result as some kind of unfairness or victimisation, and in time this becomes so engrained that they subconsciously engineer situations where they will meet with scorn, agression or disappointment simply because "playing the victim" is the only thing they know. I've definitely met some women who display these traits in their choice of relationships.

Anyway. I'm not saying that anybody deserves to be physically threatened in school, or that the children doing it deserve to get away unchallenged. There are a few morons from my school days who I should have just punched square on the nose instead of taking their crap. Would it have helped matters? Who knows. Would it have made me feel better, hell yes.

 

[Zhadramekel]

You know it's these threads that make me really glad I left school a long time ago. I was bullied for 11 years and these days I have self-diagnosed bipolar disorder.
But more to the point, I don't know why teachers never do anything to help the kids, all I know is that they don't.

 

[Kingsnake661]

Bullying isn't going to stop. Schools CAN'T stop it. Don't you think they would if it were an easy fix? To many students, no real effective way to disipline kids, fear on the part of the bullied kid to report it, there's a laundry list of reasons it's not going to stop. And besides, lots of bulling takes place off school grounds and on the internet now a days.

Stoping it isn't going to happen. The best bet is to teach people as best you can, how to deal with it. To endure it. Nope, not a great answere to the problem, i know, but it's reality. I had to learn to deal with it. I had to develop a positive self image and self esteem to battle the bullies who tried, and failed i might add, to bring me down. It wasn't easy, it wasn't fun, and i hate the idea that other kids have go through it, but it's just how it is.

Honestly, at this stage in my life, as a man of 33, a large part of who I am now was developed buy enduring the bullying. I learned how to cope with stress, anger, and fear ALONG time ago, and it serves me well now. I learned that i LIKED the person i was, and still like the person I am, and have, i think, been happer in general as a result. I think my mother for that. She was bullyed too, and tought me how she coped. Which was the same way I did. And if need, if i ever have kids, will be how they do it too, if they happen to have the same problem. *shrug*

 

[Something Amyss]

Back in my school days, all it took was a call from the bully's parents to overturn a punishment.

If a kid's a fuckwad, there's a decent chance their parent is, too.

No consequences for assaulting someone, no change in behaviour.

So in seventh grade, I finally snapped. I had an already-swelling eye, a busted lip, and a nosebleed, and THEN I started fighting back. I am the child of two liberal hippie pacifists and had non-violence pressed on me as a philosophy since I was old enough to listen. I hit the guy once before things got broken up, hauled into the principal's office for it (still bleeding, I might add), and had my parents called. His were called two, and they bitched and moaned and tried everything from he was a victim to "well, must have been asking for it."

Walking down the hall, looking all punchable and stuff, I'm sure.

In the end, there was talk of suspending me, and not him. He had stronger, more rabid advocacy. Well, until that point. My mom was pissed at the concept I might get suspended for self defense while the guy who started it might walk out of the scot free. And she browbeat the principal into recanting there, too, but that's still kind of the problem. I got out of the situation the same way I got into the situation: Weak authority figures caving because parents are whiny.

When will it end? Well, it probably won't. In order for it to end, we need our culture to stop tolerating it (especially those "it's human nature!") guys, or we need each and every victim to make a stand for themselves. It needs to be "not safe" for a bully to pick on someone, either societally or through victim intolerance.

And just remember, kiddies, it was "human nature" when people were regularly lynching black people. Boy, did we curb that occurrence.

In case my meaning isunclear, "human nature" is a pretty big cop-out.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I'm going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that very little bullying actually goes on in schools. What does happen is plenty of conflict, which is a natural consequence of cramming upwards of thirty young people with raging hormones into a single room, and that conflict is then interpreted as bullying by the "victim" (and just to make things complicated, often both sides will believe they are the victim).

I don't know about that. Conflicts are usually two sided whereas bullying is very one sided and from what I've seen, at least in my school, most "conflicts" were extremely one sided. Of course, schools will claim every bullying attempt is just a conflict and are quick to put the blame on both children so as to absolve themselves of all responsibility.

I was bullied through most of general and high school and no one did jack shit to stop it. I was even painted as the bully by the teachers because I was fat and looked burly. Because of the constant harassment I ended up developing GAD and I've barely just now started dealing with it. This irreverence (is that even the right word?) towards bullying is what pushes teenagers towards suicide, depression, reclusiveness and all manners of mental problems. Unless schools take a more severe approach towards bullying this trend will continue and we'll be seeing more kids end up in the gutter just because no one bothered to provide help when they needed it most.

You can't just paint every aggressive interaction between students as a simple conflict; that will only serve to further the idea that the ordeals are harmless and that there is no need for teacher/parent intervention. There is a fine line between learning how to deal with social problems and being harassed and make no mistake, bullying is harassment of the highest level.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Because people are, well, people, and still prone to doing such things. At least, that's how I see it...

 

[l3o2828]

Godwins law HERE WE GO.
Zero Tolerance Regime.
That.Is.All.

 

[Mr.PlanetEater]

Because people are shit. Anyways if you want a solution to Bullying, if they physically touch you outside of school and you end up with a serious injury (which happens a lot with Bullying), you do have the right and probably should call the cops and charge him/her with Battery. There's a reason that law exists, and if you have the proof of serious injuries as well as a couple of eye witnesses then there is very few ways that the Bully can get out if it. And believe me, Battery has some pretty hefty consequences especially if its serious enough.

For example here in the U.S. simple Battery which is any unwanted contact regardless of how severe the injuries are is a misdemeanor and can carry with it up to 12 months in Jail, which will stick with them for the rest of theirs lives because every time they go to file for a job application they'll have to mention why and when they were sentenced, as well as they'll be excluded from getting certain licenses or holding public offices.

Not the most noble of defenses, but if you are in such a bad spot that no one is going to help you, and the bullying is frequently resulting in serious injuries, there is always the law. :/

 

[Idocreating]

If its physical bullying? Kick them in the fucking nuts!

If its not physical? Tell them to FUCK OFF! and get on with you're life.

Verbal/Social bullying is never that simple. It reguarly gets to the point where you need to get physical for them to get the picture.

Physical bullying is almost always a one sided affair. Any attempt to go toe to toe with your tormentor will end badly for you, both from the physical pain and the fact that teachers will just assume it was a fight and your no further.

The only true way of stopping a bully is go completely overboard and shank him, but that tends to land you in a whole heap of trouble.

 

[Idocreating]

A child who kills himself over bullying never earned sympathy points in my eyes.

I was bullied until I fought back.
Then they'd cut it out.

Eventually they'd forget, think I've changed or someone else would just think they were top-shit until I hurt them too.

Violence was, is, and forever shall be - the most effective solution.

Disclaimer: I, in no way enjoy fighting or making people bleed.

We I tried talking it out with the bullies, befriending them, getting in on the joke...mediation, arbitration, school got involved, my parents were involved, their parents were involved...and the result was as followed -
Talking about it resulted in bullying.
Trying to befriend them or get over the issue resulted in bullying.
Mediation resulted in bullying.
Arbitration resulted in bullying.
School did nothing.
My parents did their best BUT the school did nothing, and for the most part, all their parents did was ground them or give em a talking too...and in one case they SUPPORTED bullying me as a "way of life".

So eventually I fought back, and nothing teaches a lesson like pain.
Albeit, this wasn't a kick in the balls. Oh ho no...A kick in the balls usually warranted them coming back in a group.
In year 4, I punched a kid in the throat.
In year 6, I slammed a kids head into the urinal.
In year 7, I threw a kid into a wall.
In year 8, I threw a teenager through a window.
these are only the 'highlights' and I can go on and on...
Was it worth the month suspension or weeks of detention? Yup.

Much as nobody wants to admit it, this is the truth. I spent most of my primary and secondary school life at the bottom of the social ladder, nearly everyone in my year treated me like crap.

One of the few excepts was in Year 7 when I went feral on some guy called Ashley. Why, I can't remember, never even had any classes with the guy. Smashed him against a wall and had to be pulled off by at least 3 people. For a week after that, people looked at me with shock and awe, frequently asking if I really had beaten him up.

Curiously, while i'd never really been a target from Ashley himself beforehand, I can't recall ever hearing a peep from him afterward. Wonder what he's doing nowadays, maybe it put a sense of humility in the guy, who knows.

 

[Batou667]

You can't just paint every aggressive interaction between students as a simple conflict; that will only serve to further the idea that the ordeals are harmless and that there is no need for teacher/parent intervention. There is a fine line between learning how to deal with social problems and being harassed and make no mistake, bullying is harassment of the highest level.

Yeah, it's a tricky issue. I have plenty of sympathy for people who had a rough time at school - I too spent most of my school days unhappy, lacking confidence and constantly on my guard, wondering when the next verbal attack would come or when the next hard-nut with something to prove to his idiot mates would try pushing me around to make themselves feel better. And yeah, as somebody who was consistently the tallest in the class, I was somehow seen as being immune to bullying. "What's the problem? Just hit him back harder, he's smaller than you" - great in theory, but what about the dozen cronies, older brothers, and so on?

It's only through looking at the situation through an adult set of eyes - and also by working in education and with children - that I can take the emotive bias away. A minority of what happens in schools is true bullying - that is, a prolonged, malicious and one-sided attack. That kind of thing is just plain nasty and should be challenged by teachers and parents. The rest is generally tit-for-tat, or the product of misunderstandings, hormones or failed attempts at verbal wit or physical humour.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

"What's the problem? Just hit him back harder, he's smaller than you" - great in theory, but what about the dozen cronies, older brothers, and so on?

See, this is also a problem. Instead of encouraging positive social interactions we advise kids to just hit back and by doing so we're perpetuating the idea that violence is "OK". We shouldn't be encouraging kids to "fight back" since more often than not both parties involved are victims in one way or another. We should try and solve the "disagreement" amicably and if not possible attempt to separate the students.

The rest is generally tit-for-tat, or the product of misunderstandings, hormones or failed attempts at verbal wit or physical humour.

I'm sorry but I've yet to see something like that actually happen. When bullying happened, bullying happened. There was no conflict of interests or just "hormones", it was straight out bullying. Even if it's just a misunderstanding teachers should still intervene as those "disagreements" will often lead to a more serious altercation between the people involved.

 

[Slash Dementia]

When I was younger one of the school bullies tried to bully me, so I punched him in the face the first time he tried something, and he started to cry in front of the class. My parents have always taught my brother and I to fight/talk back when there's an injustice towards us, and we do. I think I still have his tooth mark on my knuckle, and I had a hard time closing my fist for a few days. I also got suspended for a day but it was worth it--even though nothing happened to him (the well known bully). The kid wouldn't even look at me for the remainder of the year, and he stopped being a bully. Sometimes that's all someone needs--to get hit back--though I hate that in that case violence was the answer, but it was in self defense, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if it were to happen.

I hate that people get bullied, and it's horrible that it happens almost everyday. The school aren't going to do anything because they're just not capable of doing much at all. Kids and, well, any human of any age will bully someone. If nothing is done, they'll just continue. Many parents don't discipline their kids or teach them right from wrong--they grow up alone or are so used to doing whatever they want and bring it wherever they go; and frankly, many teachers don't even care either, or ignore it to avoid more work. It's horrible and nothing's helping.

-Snip-

I'm really sorry that all that happened to you. No one deserves to be treated that way. I'm glad that you've made it through, even though it still haunts you.

 

[AngloDoom]

There is simply nothing you can do.

If you're being bullied it's often because the other kids sense a perceived weakness in you, be it appearance-wise, personality-wise, or just being different in the way they don't like. The bullying only makes it more of a problem, it makes many see that 'weakness' in themselves that they accept and therefore start to believe in. This can make them more and more cut off from their classmates at school, which in turn brings in more bullying.

Depending on where you are from, punching a bully in the nose can either solve the problem or get you hospitalised, and from my experience it's more a short-term reprieve than a solution. Similarly, telling the teacher can have precisely the same range of consequences. Even if a bully gets kicked out of school, doesn't mean they won't continue the moment you step out of the school.

There's literally nothing you can do about the situation in a lot of schools unless you somehow integrate with 'cool' groups or become the bully yourself. In some of the nicer ones you just need to bolster your confidence.

 

[breadsammich]

I was bullied all through school because of my Tourette's. Plus, at one point 3/4ths of my friends turned against me. It really sucked, but I never once thought of suicide. I agree that the kids that are killing themselves are probably more inclined to do that anyway. I don't mean to sound callous, but that's how I see it. Bullying is a problem, true, but it isn't something that's going to ever go away. I think this is one of the few situations where the root cause of the problem can't be fixed, and you have to simply deal with the symptoms (the bullied kids). Give them emotional support, and look for suicidal tendencies, because bullies will always exist.

 

[AngloDoom]

A child who kills himself over bullying never earned sympathy points in my eyes.

I was bullied until I fought back.
Then they'd cut it out.

Eventually they'd forget, think I've changed or someone else would just think they were top-shit until I hurt them too.

Violence was, is, and forever shall be - the most effective solution.

Disclaimer: I, in no way enjoy fighting or making people bleed.

We I tried talking it out with the bullies, befriending them, getting in on the joke...mediation, arbitration, school got involved, my parents were involved, their parents were involved...and the result was as followed -
Talking about it resulted in bullying.
Trying to befriend them or get over the issue resulted in bullying.
Mediation resulted in bullying.
Arbitration resulted in bullying.
School did nothing.
My parents did their best BUT the school did nothing, and for the most part, all their parents did was ground them or give em a talking too...and in one case they SUPPORTED bullying me as a "way of life".

So eventually I fought back, and nothing teaches a lesson like pain.
Albeit, this wasn't a kick in the balls. Oh ho no...A kick in the balls usually warranted them coming back in a group.
In year 4, I punched a kid in the throat.
In year 6, I slammed a kids head into the urinal.
In year 7, I threw a kid into a wall.
In year 8, I threw a teenager through a window.
these are only the 'highlights' and I can go on and on...
Was it worth the month suspension or weeks of detention? Yup.

I'm glad that worked out for you (I think?) but at the same time simply saying it worked for you in your area doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Friend of mine did the same shit in Year 7. The next day three Year 11's (an older brother and two mates of the bully) kicked the crap out of him so hard we didn't see him for a week, and when he came back he was still swollen and bruised. Then he had the crap kicked out of him again (but not so severely) because he "ran away for a week like a pussy."

What if the bully is larger than you? Older than you? Only bullies you with a group of three or four friends? I'm not saying a punch in the face never solved bullying, but declaring it always solves bullying is just unrealistic.

 

[A.A.K]

Snip

I'm glad that worked out for you (I think?) but at the same time simply saying it worked for you in your area doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Friend of mine did the same shit in Year 7. The next day three Year 11's (an older brother and two mates of the bully) kicked the crap out of him so hard we didn't see him for a week, and when he came back he was still swollen and bruised. Then he had the crap kicked out of him again (but not so severely) because he "ran away for a week like a pussy."

What if the bully is larger than you? Older than you? Only bullies you with a group of three or four friends? I'm not saying a punch in the face never solved bullying, but declaring it always solves bullying is just unrealistic.

Sorry; but I have no argument to make.
Your point (in my eyes) is just as valid as mine.
The only time I was put in a position of dealing with older - larger bullies, was the time I was keeping bricks in my bag because of the bullies on the bus...So when I got off the bus and the Year 10's at the time (I was in year 8) went to take my bag and push me to the ground, the sheer force of him pulling my bag off swung back and knocked him out.

I'm aware that not everyone is a trained martial artist, have 'the parents' or a military dream and thus can't take out every challenge head on, but this is merely my story nd what worked for me.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Because bullies are evil wankers that will turn your friends against you and indoctrinate everybody to see you the same way they do. Weak and stupid. And they know exactly how to get at you without it being obvious to adults around what they are doing. And if you tell on them, they turn that against you too...

The only way it could be stopped would be if school systems, police, etc were infinitely better and all bullied kids were confident enough to actually report stuff.