Why is bullying still an issue?

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Carbonyl

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.No. said:
Carbonyl said:
... This is one of the few posts I've ever read that's actually effected my way of thinking, if not the only. That must have required a hell of a lot of courage to post, even with anonymity. Seriously.
I can't tell which one of my posts you're referring to, but I figure it's the first one. And thanks, this is something that .... it needs to change and it's one of the most important things to me. I want people to understand that this is more intense and more important and more complicated than they think it is. I want people to stop writing off suicides and violent outbursts as anomalies and products of kids who were just... not right, or not good enough, or predisposed. I want people to take bullying seriously, and I want them to understand the extent of the damage. If it takes me beating myself around the head with the courage stick, it's worth it to change even one mind.
Thank you for telling me, I'm glad I made a difference.
 

RaikuFA

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Carbonyl said:
spartan231490 said:
Carbonyl said:
spartan231490 said:
Carbonyl said:
spartan231490 said:
The system always listens, the trick is knowing how to make it hear.
The system listens to power, and I had none of that.
You don't need power, you can borrow theirs. If you throw their own fears back in their face, they will believe it. It can't be helped, being afraid of something is admitting that it's possible. That's just one small way to do what we are talking about. there are many others.

How capable is a six year old of doing that to a school administrator? That was when I was pushed down. I was six and I was scared and I wanted help and I asked for it from my teacher, the next day the principal pulled me out of class, she told me that I needed to not tell, that I would be punished if I told anyone, that if I was quiet it wouldn't get worse, that it wasn't real anyway and no one would believe me. How the hell was I supposed to stand up to that, to find her fear, at the age of six I was shy and scared and friendless. I stood no chance and held no sway. I had no arsenal, and crying was frowned upon by the school.

You're outlook might work if the bullying starts in middle or high school, or if you actually have a friend or two, but when you're a little kid and grownups rule your existence, your advice is worthless.
It's not advice. I was merely clarifying that it can be done, and it doesn't necessarily have to do with intelligence in the normal sense of the word.

My advice would have been punch the kids in the face, cuz it's a lot easier and a lot more likely to work.

Doesn't really work in your example obviously, but you were a unique case. My advice to you would have go to your parents about the principle, but whatever.


I am not a unique case, kids are powerless, and grownups are scary. My parents had no idea what to do (though they tried as hard as they could), and I wouldn't tell anyone the extent of what happened because I was afraid.

Eventually, it did come down to punching the kids, though I tended to aim for the balls before going for the face. But as I said before, I wasn't fighting for me, I had no concept of being something worth fighting for, I was fighting for my brother, and through that learned to fight for myself. But I never would have fought for myself, the true damage is how the bullying teaches you to give up, that you have no options, that you're alone and it's enough to destroy any chance at psychological and emotional health well past the end of the active bullying. I know I'm still feeling it, and it's painful every waking second of the day, and it's what I have nightmares about. And I was one of the lucky ones. A lot of people end up worse, broken, violent, non-functional, deeply depressed. I'm relatively happy, and have finally gained social skills and some confidence.

I'm only unique in that I managed to finally escape it, and do so through my own agency.
I'm very glad you did. I'm trying to cure myself from my depression and PTSD. And you did make a diffrence.
 

Carbonyl

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RaikuFA said:
I'm very glad you did. I'm trying to cure myself from my depression and PTSD. And you did make a diffrence.
I wish more people would understand the seriousness of the issue, and how complicated it is, and how destructive it is.

Thanks for sharing, it's always hard to admit the damage I still have, it's nice not to be the only one. Though it's horrible that either of us have to have it.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Danglybits said:
I think that part of the problem is the value people place on primary school and highschool in particular. Those 4 years are not that important and you never have to deal with these people again. EVER. Maybe if kids and teens could see that this has an end (that isn't suicide or murder) then they would choose other methods of coping.
I can truthfully say you are the first person saying something that doesn't make me think that you are either a foolish asshole, or someone too optimistic for their own good.

Not that your idea will have anymore chance at making an incredible difference. Don't get me wrong. I think it could work, but I don't think it will be done.
 

Jandau

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Often because the teachers don't want trouble. If you crack down on bullies, the bullies' parents will get involved. And chances are, since they are the ones who raised a bully, that they aren't the nicest people. Often primitive, violent, obnoxious, etc., they can make a lot of trouble for the teachers and the school. And even if the teachers do still go through, there's no guarantee it'll change anything (especially if the parents don't want to hear about it) AND even if it does, some new kid will start the same cycle again soon enough. It just wears them out.

I used to get bullied all through 5th, 6th and 7th grades, by most of my class and a good number of other people in the school. I resented the teachers and even my parents for not doing more, but as I grew up and looked back, I realized there wasn't much they could do. At least not in the current climate of "PARENTS ARE NEVER WRONG!!!". You know what I mean, everything that's wrong with kids is always someone else's fault, never the parents.
 

IronicBeet

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snake4769 said:
SillyBear said:
snake4769 said:
I am sorry but i feel as if im strong willed enough to go down in a blaze of glory. I'd sooner die trying to hurt the person trying to hurt me before killing myself.
I love the fact, that even in your stupid fantasy, you have the will to "go down in a blaze of glory", but you don't have the will to just not kill yourself to begin with.

Wut? I cant make sense of this. I dont have the will to not kill myself? I apologize :(


And everyone else, its not fantasy, if its as bad as all of you say it is. If it comes down to life or death. And yes it does come to that considering the suicidal kids. No, its not too hard to gun down your tormentor. Hell they DO do that in school shootings. The thing i hate about that shit, is they needlessly kill a lot of innocents.

Nothing, i mean nothing, excuses suicides. There is always a way.
If you're suggesting that killing someone is a "way out" of suicide, then I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.

I'm probably going to get suspended for saying that, but whatever.
 

IronicBeet

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snake4769 said:
nukethetuna said:
erykweb said:
Honestly, This has more to do with being smarter than everyone else. Even at age 7, I could talk around the system. And when you are smarter, people tend to get irritated with you. I was never bullied. Why? Because the first time 3 kids tried to beat me up they ended up on the blacktop bleeding from their noses and fat lips. And I rubbed it in. They were beat and they felt it every time I spoke a word to them. I was not bigger or stronger than they were- I was smarter. Now, once you reach adulthood, this tends to even out a bit; the gap of intelligence becomes smaller, but it runs on the same principle. If you are taught correctly, and brought up correctly, then it will not be an issue. So every time I hear someone say they were bullied by person x, or psychologically scarred by person Y, I have little sympathy. If you make a display of violence against them, that is good. But if you hit them where they feel it psychologically- no one will ever bother. Fear is an emotion, the easier to invoke it is, the better off you will be.

Bullied kids ARE weak. They are made that way by the bullies. But they are not at the beginning. If they are smarter than the bullies at their own game, then there is never a problem.
Pffft, what did you do? Headbutt them with your MASSIVE BRAIN? "I did it so anyone can" is not a valid defense. It's called anecdotal evidence, and in this case it ignores the significant differences in people and situations.

Also I think retaliating by scarring them psychologically and then rubbing in the fact that you beat them down constantly makes YOU the bully. :p
He is right though, the key is fear. If you make the bully believe you are going insane and threaten them or hurt them. They will leave you alone and find someone else.
Right, unless they're insane too and bigger than you. Then you get the shit kicked out of you.

I am insulted at how ignorant you are on a subject like this.
 

Trippy Turtle

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May 10, 2010
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Today I was getting insulted and I told the person to go away. He stare=ted going on about how I insulted his mum and he flipped me over onto the ground and kicked me in the ribs. I got suspended for being involved in a fight. He got taken out of activity's for the day because he made up some bullshit about his mum being really sick and how I insulted her. Who cares that I am on the ground half dead because he attacked me for no reason.
 

Aurgelmir

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l33tness08 said:
If its physical bullying? Kick them in the fucking nuts!

If its not physical? Tell them to FUCK OFF! and get on with you're life.
Problem is the bullies don't respond to the last one, they will just keep on going.

The first one is probably a possibility, though a lot of kids that get bullied tend to escalate the situation using some kind of weapon...
 

Rad Party God

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Carbonyl said:
For the entirety of my elementary school career, I cried everyday because I was afraid to go to school, by second grade, I was so messed up they gave me a full neuropsych exam and there were serious concerns about me being suicidal at the age of 7, for the entirety of third grade I had panic attacks because my teacher told the class that "Anna didn't finish her work, so none of us are going out for recess" several times a week. The woman stabbed me with a pencil and I still have the scar and she never got in trouble. When my little brother started at the school I was in fifth grade, I had to beat up every single kid in the fifth grade to get people to leave him alone, apparently it was enough to get them to leave me alone too. I was lucky, I was so lucky, if I hadn't finally stood up for myself and my brother, and they hadn't been unwilling to work for their jollies, I would have spent the rest of my life in the same living hell. I lived in one of the richest neighborhoods in America, I was continually and systematically emotionally abused by my classmates, several teachers, and the principal for five years. When I complained, they told me that it was my own fault for being strange and that "telling on others is not conducive to a cohesive learning environment". I am never going to forget how the principal told six year old me that I was in trouble for going to my teacher in tears and refusing to work with the other kids. The school wanted me quiet, they wanted nothing to be wrong. I was supposed to shut up, and fix myself so I was "right", so I fit in, and if I couldn't it was my own fault. The system was perfect, the town was perfect, the PTA mothers' children were perfect, I was wrong and so were my parents who both had jobs and didn't have tans and weren't in the PTA. It's still happening in my town, a friend of mine got beat up by a group of girls, she was charged with inciting a mob. My little brother got punched by another kid in gym? He got suspended, the other kid didn't.

The problem is not going to stop, the schools want it to go away (and don't have the resources to deal with it), the kids learn from their parents, police don't want to work for the losing side and the whole point of bullying is to isolate the victim and make them helpless. No one wants to listen to the bullied kid because it makes problems. It's complicated, you have to deal with more parents if you support the victim and it's so much easier to just cover it up. They want to ignore it until it goes away, and they want you to too.

It doesn't go away and it will never not hurt. You can cover your ears so hard that they bleed but you will not be able to drown out kids teasing or mocking you. Bullied kids are told and taught to keep quiet, don't make noise and maybe the bullies wont pay attention and maybe you can just about your daily life and maybe if you're quiet they won't find you intolerable and if you make them mad you just make yourself invisible and small and maybe they'll forget and never talk to anyone new because then they don't have a chance to hate you like everyone else or maybe they already do but it's not worth it and it's scary.

I was taught not to fight back, I was taught I was somehow "wrong" and I was told I was stupid because I couldn't learn when I was afraid of other kids. I believed it for so goddamn long and I lived in terror for so many years and even though I know that I'm not wrong and that I can speak up and that I have a genius IQ and multiple awards for chemistry and so many wonderful friends... I will never, ever be able to remove the sheer and utter social terror that is ingrained into my psyche. I still live in fear, and it's not Ok.

It's not going to get better until someone makes it so unpleasant to continue that the schools and police are willing to do the work to make it stop. The system is complacent and won't budge until it's more work to be complacent than to take action. The problem lays with the fact that bullied kids are conditioned to stay quiet and keep their heads down, if we want to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else, we have to ignore those instincts, and make as much noise as possible.
Somehow, this kinda reminds me of myself at that age, in elementary school and even a great part of high school. I don't have a high IQ, but I just didn't wanted to go to school anymore, heck, I don't want to keep in touch with some of the people who were the closest things I had as "friends" for fear of reminding me of those awful days. I had some of the lowest grades of my class at that time and I was an emotional train wreck. All of that changed the day I transfered to another school and those were some of the happiest days of my life, I made some of my best friends there and I still keep in touch a lot with them, heck, I was someone back then, nobody in my classroom greeted me with a tease or an insult, they were friendly to me and greeted me by my name and not by any slur or nickname.

Sadly, as long as people still turn a blind eye over the issue, there's nothing else anyone can do, except counting the suicide numbers until someone takes notice.
 

Radelaide

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Because schools are too busy trying to end bullying to actually see that they're efforts are entirely wasted.
 

Vicarious Reality

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Once i noticed that my friend was exessively nasty and annoying to me for no reason one day, i chased him full speed through the entire school, punching open metal doors on the way.
Didn't hear anything after that.
 

crazyfoxdemon

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I've had good and bad teachers. Teachers that tried to put a stop to it and teachers that turned blind eyes. I once had a teacher accuse me of stealing from her (I did not and there was no proof other then her word) but the school believed her so I had to spend a month mowing lawns to 'pay her back' the $100 I supposedly stole from her. On the other side of the spectrum, I had a teacher that could not be fired, actually punch out a student that was harrassing a girl very badly. He couldn't be fired because he was the only certified computer teacher in the county. Some teachers are good, some are bad...

One problem is that teachers are also under a lot of pressure. I know a teacher that was attacked by a student, and the teacher was forced to physically restrain the boy out of fear for her own safety, only to be suspended and is currently in court over it. School Districts don't stand behind their teachers any more then they do their students.

So really, I lay most of my blame on the Administration and the District. They're the ones who cover up problems with students and teachers..
 

BiscuitTrouser

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snake4769 said:
Matthew94 said:
snake4769 said:
People need to stop being a bunch of pansies and fight back. I mean what drives someone into suicide or a school shooting spree. Opposed to just closing your fist and smashing the shitface bully in the face. Or if you are too weak, maybe hire someone even. I don't care, but all i know is i do not respect the idiot who committed a shooting or suicide at all, especially over something as silly as bullying.
Fight back and then get the shit kicked out of you?? Pay someone to fight? Jesus your school must have been shit.

Most of the people who like to fight never fight fair meaning you are likely to be fighting 2 or more people at 1 time.

l33tness08 said:
If its physical bullying? Kick them in the fucking nuts!

If its not physical? Tell them to FUCK OFF! and get on with you're life.
Again, it's not that simple but clearly you are so I won't bother explaining.



What? The fact is, if you are ready to kill yourself. You have nnothing to lose, so why not make the kid suffer who was making you suffer. Beat his skull in with a wrench, maybe even just kill him if you are so inclined to do so. But maybe try to get away with it just for the thrill. Become the joker later in life.
Did you just encourage school shootings? Because this is the EXACT THOUGHT PROCESS THEY REACH that makes them happen. You said you had no respect for those that commited them, but now you are advocating the exact thought process that these murderers have? Jesus if the entire world solved problems like you do, id still be a monkey and me and you would be swinging wooden clubs at eachother.
 

iLikeHippos

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Report the kids, report the teachers and report the school. But most importantly, do not lose yourself.

Keep strong and hand their asses to them, one way or another. It will solve your bullying problems for good.
I know I had my bullies stop after I went insane at them with a fucking rake, waving it in the air like I didn't care.
 

A.A.K

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A child who kills himself over bullying never earned sympathy points in my eyes.

I was bullied until I fought back.
Then they'd cut it out.

Eventually they'd forget, think I've changed or someone else would just think they were top-shit until I hurt them too.

Violence was, is, and forever shall be - the most effective solution.

Disclaimer: I, in no way enjoy fighting or making people bleed.

We I tried talking it out with the bullies, befriending them, getting in on the joke...mediation, arbitration, school got involved, my parents were involved, their parents were involved...and the result was as followed -
Talking about it resulted in bullying.
Trying to befriend them or get over the issue resulted in bullying.
Mediation resulted in bullying.
Arbitration resulted in bullying.
School did nothing.
My parents did their best BUT the school did nothing, and for the most part, all their parents did was ground them or give em a talking too...and in one case they SUPPORTED bullying me as a "way of life".

So eventually I fought back, and nothing teaches a lesson like pain.
Albeit, this wasn't a kick in the balls. Oh ho no...A kick in the balls usually warranted them coming back in a group.
In year 4, I punched a kid in the throat.
In year 6, I slammed a kids head into the urinal.
In year 7, I threw a kid into a wall.
In year 8, I threw a teenager through a window.
these are only the 'highlights' and I can go on and on...
Was it worth the month suspension or weeks of detention? Yup.
 

crazyhyena645

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TheIronRuler said:
RaikuFA said:
At least once a month I hear of a kid killing themself or going insane. Why does it happen? Bullying is the answer. I want to ask though WHY DOSEN'T THE SCHOOL GET INVOLVED? I can understand cyberbullying but the ignore button is there for a reason, plus police care more about the bullying online than bullying that happens in schools.

Apparently, my situation still happens to this day. Day after day I was beaten down to the point where I had bruises, a bloody nose etc. The schools response? "We didn't see anything." A teacher actually encouraged me getting beaten. The schools response? "We can't do anything, she's a teacher." What if another teacher saw and we were dragged to the principals office? "Well, the kid with the bruises everyday probably started it so we're gonna suspend him for three days while the other gets a days suspension."

I mean what do you do? Whats it gonna take foor this shit to stop?
It's easy to blame one child instead of a group. It is much easier to ignore it.
It is even more easy to live in prison where all your needs are taken care of.
...Bring this up to an official in your ministery of education that is responsible for your area. Speak with the media. YOU make a story out of it that they CAN'T F*CKING IGNORE.
Take it from someone that experienced similar events. They will fold if YOU pressure them, then you will smile as they ask you to stop...
And then all of those Teachers, Principals and Councilors will look up and shout, "Save Us..." and I will look down and whisper, "No.".
good points and awesome reference, so cool.
 

AndyFromMonday

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Because no one wants to deal with bullying. If schools go public about their bullying problems then they might get less students and less funding. The police doesn't want to deal with it because they do not consider it a problem. Parents rarely want to get involved in their child's life because they're to fucking busy doing whatever. Other children/teens will encourage it in hopes of not being bullied themselves. The only way to break this pattern is by getting the schools to do something about it but unless there's some money to be had, like for example the whole "gay bullying" thing, no one will do shit.

Oh, by the way, bullying never stops and no, it doesn't get better. The only thing that changes once you're an adult is the ability to sue the asshole who's been bothering you but that rarely works out the way you'd want it to because most of the morons who bully you during adulthood tend to be in positions of power.

So yeah, go society!