Why the Dragon Age 2 hate is GOOD

[Quickening666]

From what I hear, the game is still selling like hotcakes, so if it is selling well, it won't make a difference.

All EA is concerned with is money money money, and if they get it from Dragon Age 2, then the game sucking won't matter.

Spoiler

and the fact that all major reviewers are being payed to give the game 5 out of 5 reviews doesn't help ether. INCLUDING THIS WEBSITE FOR THAT MATER!

I am mad

Yep. It's for the same reason that you just know without anyone having played the game that Skyrim will get amazing review scores and be met with massive critical acclaim. Every sane gamer knows that the most honest opinions are to be found on forums and not in mainstream magazines and websites.

 

[starry01]

Well said, OP! I think that the criticism/"hate" is definitely helpful, so long as it's done in a constructive, rational manner.

DA2 isn't a great game by any stretch of the imagination...but it's also not BAD. It just could have done with a year or two more in the development phase. I've played worse. It had some strengths--I found the method of storytelling to be very engaging, and LOVE Varric and Merrill. I thought that the idea of streamlining on the whole was not a terrible thing, but they made the mistake of overdoing it. I didn't even mind the tighter focus, world-wise. Attempting to appeal to a wider audience isn't a bad idea. It's just business. However, attempting to appeal to an audience that isn't even close to your original audience is folly, and they should have known better than to change the very things that people vocally loved the original for (tactics, a whole cast of very strong characters, the choices made actually having an impact on the story and character relationships, instead of just an illusion thereof...I could go on, but you all know what I'm talking about).

Despite the above, I'm really more put off by the obvious rushing in the design. I understand the need to recycle some elements, I guess, but my first thought upon stepping into a new dungeon area shouldn't be "oh hey, I've been here before..." That's just lazy.

Also, I couldn't tell--is my XBox just full of fail, or did anyone else have some problems with being thrown back into the same dialog sequence a second time? Or cutscenes looking a little choppy: characters flickering/jumping on the screen?

 

[jpoon]

Completely agreed, I voted with my dollars and didn't buy the game. Screw EA and screw Bioware for cutting so many corners and putting out the most "mainstream" title they could.

To me attempting to appeal to everyone is a bad thing, here is the result, a game that excels at nothing.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Well said, OP! I think that the criticism/"hate" is definitely helpful, so long as it's done in a constructive, rational manner.

DA2 isn't a great game by any stretch of the imagination...but it's also not BAD. It just could have done with a year or two more in the development phase. I've played worse. It had some strengths--I found the method of storytelling to be very engaging, and LOVE Varric and Merrill. I thought that the idea of streamlining on the whole was not a terrible thing, but they made the mistake of overdoing it. I didn't even mind the tighter focus, world-wise. Attempting to appeal to a wider audience isn't a bad idea. It's just business. However, attempting to appeal to an audience that isn't even close to your original audience is folly, and they should have known better than to change the very things that people vocally loved the original for (tactics, a whole cast of very strong characters, the choices made actually having an impact on the story and character relationships, instead of just an illusion thereof...I could go on, but you all know what I'm talking about).

Despite the above, I'm really more put off by the obvious rushing in the design. I understand the need to recycle some elements, I guess, but my first thought upon stepping into a new dungeon area shouldn't be "oh hey, I've been here before..." That's just lazy.

Also, I couldn't tell--is my XBox just full of fail, or did anyone else have some problems with being thrown back into the same dialog sequence a second time? Or cutscenes looking a little choppy: characters flickering/jumping on the screen?

I played on the 360 too. I had flickering and jumping during cutscenes (especially those with a lot of movement) as well. I had dialogue with the Arishtok during Act 2 repeat a couple of times. Great first post and welcome to the Escapist!

 

[Xaositect]

I agree, but I dont think its going to work.

I also agree with another user about Bioware now being arrogant and generally smug. They have this philosophy of "lets rip the shit out of previous game to build up our next one". They did it with Mass Effect 2.

It stems from Biowares new mantra, and why I think no matter the hate it wont work: Bioware doesnt care about those who like the game anymore (when way back it used to be pretty much ALL they cared about). Now its about those who dont like the game.

They have existing fans tagged as brainless sheep (correctly in many cases) who will lap up any shit they plop out and simply want to add new brainless sheep to their collective.

Bioware have been assimilated by EA and are now the borg.

Honestly somtimes I think the only positive outcome will be for EA to remove their vital components and for Bioware to disintegrate on the nice clean floor of the Enterprise.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Are people honestly saying they wanted an Origins 2?
Really?
I won't deny that Origins was a fantastic game, but I'd rather not see BioWare rendered stagnant in the light of fandom self-entitlement.
Creative decisions ultimately lie with the developer. Like them or not, the fact is the consumer has no say when it comes to these things. As they shouldn't. And if they take issue with said decisions, they are free to pass on the product.

There are things about Dragon Age 2 I would've liked to see executed differently, sure. But I don't take it as some sort of absurd personal insult that a creative company attempts to progress and experiment with new design ideas.

 

[tehroc]

Dragon's Age 2 was a steaming pile of dren. Loved DA:O, put like 75 hours into the campaign (hard difficulty), DA2 I put 6 hours into before losing interest, it just seemed like side quest after side quest with no real overarching goal. I really disliked how the entirety of the game was City (day), City (night) and Outdoors. The combat consisted solely of me spamming the A button and switching to the mages to make sure they werent getting ganged, barely a step up from Diablo.

TLDR: Dragon Effect 3 sucked ass and it makes me wonder if SWTOR is going to be just as horrible.
PS: FU captcha

 

[Jaded Scribe]

i dislike all the hate, i like the impact it will have but i do not like people insulting me left and right because i do enjoy the game despite all its flaws.

^^This. Especially since I like, or at least find reasonable, a lot of the changes people are complaining about.

What really gets to me, is that a lot of the so-called hate threads tend to boil down to "zomg change is bad!!!!" without a real discussion about why they found the aspects they're complaining about flawed.

 

[Seneschal]

As for quality assurance, I agree. The concept of DA2 was actually a lot harder to execute than DAO, and would have required quite a bit more effort. While I think it has loads more potential than the original, the execution is lazy. There is no excuse for that, and it's definitely not an acceptable amount of laziness. It feels amateur. I reused less assets when I was a kid playing Lego.

As far as "fan loyalty" is concerned, I'm not buying it. A fandom isn't rational and doesn't have the series' best interests at heart; it wants to bask in nostalgia, to be pandered and catered to with fanservice. It's a stifling influence, not a helpful one.

 

[bigsby]

First things first, I liked DA2, I think it did alot of things right. I liked DAO more though.

I think no sane human being could deny that the game is alot more streamlined than the first one, but so was ME2 in comparison to ME1 and it is still one of Bioware´s finest works.
Now, compare the DA franchise to the ME one and it is clear that Bioware is following a trend here: The first ME was a RPG epic space opera with shooter elements; now I wouldnt call the second ME an RPG. A shooter with a great amount of RPG elements, sure, a pure old-school RPG by no means. The same treatment in my opinion has been applied to the DA franchise: The first one was this epic RPG that made us all reminisce about the days of Baldur´s Gate, so when the second one came around and most of us expected the same. Judge DA2 as an RPG, and it fails, I agree with that. But it is not an RPG as far as I am concerned, much like ME2, it is a hack and slash type of game with a lot of RPG elements, and at that it is good. Was it rushed? Surely. Is it a bad game? Not by a long shot. Do I prey every night to the Dragon Gods that Bioware gets itself straight and starts making pure RPGs again? Absolutely.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

I have to agree that it was streamlined, and that some things were changed for the worse. My main gripe is the inventory system. To draw in people who are too impatient to equip gear to every member of your party, they just make it so you can't, a la Mass Effect 2. I'd hate to see things like this continue as a trend.

Yeah, it has to be people were impatient. That's the only possible reason. /sarcasm

It couldn't be the old system forced new players to learn the best setups for every class at once (which while not a problem for more experienced gamers, can be overwhelming to some).

Or that from an RP standpoint, losing a character's look and having your party look like an armory threw up on them detracted from the experience.

While I didn't mind the old system, I found no fault with the new system.

 

[Echo136]

Ive been shouting out these points to the heavens for years now. EA wont learn.

 

[EradiusLore]

i actualy loved the game but mainly because of how similar it was too Kotor, i was very much sucked in by the characters. but beyind that i agree with you, publishers do push for games to be released early and it can cut a lot out of what should have been/could have been done

 

[jawakiller]

For the most part, I agree with you, but I still don't understand why people are complaining in places that are completely unrelated to Bioware. Go on the Bioware forums, or put it on your blog, not in totally random places.

The sad truth is that this will get locked and deleted in the Bioware forum. This is the "gaming section" of a "gaming magazine", where should he take it? Oprah?

O.O
We should totally air this on oprah. Maybe it'l make her show worth watching.

Seriously though, I think people should use the system to to tell the developers of DA2 to go fuck themselves. Don't buy the game. If you wanna teach them a lesson, you have to sacrifice. I personally will never buy that piece of shit and would encourage everyone who is angered by this scam to do the same. Now I know that Escapist looks down on pirating so I won't advise that. The best way to send a message is with your money.

 

[RuralGamer]

I think one of the main reasons which people hate DA2 and which doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet is this;

Dragon Age: Origins is more of an old-school RPG

Dragon Age 2 is more of an action RPG

Problem: old-school RPG fans WILL be alienated.So really, it boils down to whether you prefer old-school or action RPGs.

I can't say that I like or dislike DA2 because I haven't played it and highly doubt I will play it for a simple reason; I don't like the so-called 'standard fantasy setting'.

From long-term commercial standpoint, I think Bioware may have made a mistake; they have obviously alienated fans of the first game and as I've learned from my uni course, disgruntled customers are one of the worst things for a company because they like to complain. Will it make a difference on the future of the series? I dunno; it depends on whether Bioware and EA care or not. Will it harm their income? Unlikely, considering roughly how much EA makes annually.

From a gameplay/enjoyment standpoint, I don't know; there was a lot about Origins I didn't like, so there was room, in my opinion, for improvement... still, as I've said, I doubt I'll be getting it because the setting of the first game, although good, didn't have enough to draw me back for another go.

I do have to say, I am interested to see what Yahtzee has to say about it, if he reviews it, considering Greg Tito gave it 5/5.

The cynic in me would also like to add this;
Bioware and Ea are for-profit businesses; they want to make money. They want to make lots of money. The best way to do this make games that the majority of gamers will play. If they lose fans because they don't like what they've made, it doesn't matter, so long as more people overall buy it. From what I gather, more people have bought DA2 than Origins: Mission Accomplished. I'm sure Yahtzee has made this point before.

 

[Rickyvantof]

What hate?
I've been spending too much time actually playing and enjoying DA2 to actually read this hate you're talking about.
Anyway, while I agree that the copy/paste of level design feels kind of rushed, the gameplay, the characters, the story and the lore really make up for it.
However it's true that it would be a better game than it is if they spent another one or two years on it. Or maybe not, maybe it'd only be slightly better at the expense of feeling kind of old(a year or two, maybe).

 

[Casual Shinji]

*Snip*

I just didn't have problem with it. I when I picked up armor I couldn't use, I just said, "Oooh, more money," and if I really studied what each piece did, I just said, "Oooh, that will be interesting to use if I pick it up when I am playing a character that can use it."

As someone else has said in this thread, DA2 actually makes me eager to play the other two classes, after finishing a first play threw. Origins just made me feel, "Uggh, I have to do that again."

I actually felt the same way in regards to DA:O, but that's basically how I feel about every Bioware game. Variety in gameplay is not really their strongest suit.

But the fact is that DA:O gave you tons of freedom to create your own character story. Sure, not all of it was necessary, but you didn't have to use all of it if you didn't want to; You had the choice. I didn't use trapmaking or herbalism at all, but the choice was still there if I did want to use it.
DA2 basically cuts all that freedom away so that everything moves more fast paced for the sake of instant gratification. Now, Mass Effect 2 did the same thing, but atleast there we had interesting characters and a variety in settings. DA2 simply boxes you into a mortar-grey city and leaves it at that. It doesn't even try to give you a sense of the scope of it's universe the way that ME2 did.

 

[CleverCover]

if you play ME2 on a harder difficulty, you shal find jack has a strong barrier, and when it goes, she always dies.

Really? Like, was there an actual difference? Does the barrier also come out when in space or the Collector ship?

I usually played with Miri and Grunt on insanity. Never had her there on the team...

 

[bootz]

I bet everybody who hate this game hasn't even PLAYED it, they just PLAYED THE DEMO.....if u haven't beaten the game, STFU....

Do you know what BEING A FAN IS? That is supporting something thru the good and the bad....Don't u know how many Star Wars fans hated Episodes 1 and 2 but still supported it? Still know the whole damn movie by heart? THATS WHAT A FAN IS...

Don't you know how many Golden State Warrior fans sell out the arena even though their team isn't gonna make the playoffs?

ITS CALLED SUPPORT! Me and a lot of my friends love Dragon Age 2 way more than 1, but for those who saying DA2 suck, but can't tell me any of the new lore, who can't discuss with me the changes that happened in the world's lore, who can't tell me how their ending of the game differed from mine, YOU ARE NOT A FAN!

Suck or don't suck, if u LOVE Dragon Age like u say u do, u play through this game, liking it or not.....I played Awakening even tho it had no gameplay changes or enhancements what so ever, but I played it for the STORY!

So if blizzard annouced WOW2 and its only set in Orgrimmar and you never leave the city that its ok. It's a more personal story. I'm the rare person that likes to explore in video games, DA2 totally cut out that aspect of the game. That made me a very sad panda. Kirkwall was deader then any city in DA:0. Assasin Creed has way better Cities.(PLURAL meanining more than one)