Woman murdered for rejecting a man, another gets her throat slashed for the same.

[carnex]

That conclusion is pretty terrible when you consider the fact that men usually make up about 70 to 80 percent of homicide victims worldwide...

That conclusion is a reference to a quote from writer Margret Atwood when she was talking about what men fear from women vs what women fear from men. So its pretty relevant to the discussion.

I don't get it. What I read is that if one person draws incorrect conclusions than it's OK to quote that as conclusions since you are not actually the one making it?

As I said, that conclusion disturbs me. What has happened is terrible, and those people are not fit to be in general society to say the least, but that conclusion has no merits.

What you are trying to do is to trivialise women's plight by likening their oppression to men's problems and trying to argue they are equal in gravity. That is misogynist.

Now where did I say that? I cant remember.

I can't see comparing one gender's troubles with other gender troubles of same sort as sexist much less misogynist.

I said I find that conclusion disturbing. I find that statement both fearmongering for women as a sex/gender and villainizing for men as sex/gender and in my opinion both of those are both wrong and harmful.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Maybe it's just me, but when I read things like this I don't see it as a gender issue, I see it as an entitlement issue.

That only works if gender doesn't affect the way entitlement applies.

But instead of it coming down to a matter of "who has it worse", shouldn't we be, as people, looking at how we see entitlement as a society?

"Who has it worse" is often used to describe people talking about which elements of society are seen as more entitled.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Now, certainly, there's nothing inherently evil about men, but to say that anyone that does something we'd judge evil must be a psychopath is just avoiding looking at the issue. The rates of such thing greatly vary depending on culture.

Saying that the people who do bad things must be psychopaths, and given that men are greatly over-represented in perpetrators...that implies things about men.

That is a TERRIBLE thing to say!
Jesus, dude, comparison (most recent one I could google: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/17/texas-execute-lisa-coleman-lethal-injection-woman) how many women kill children compared to men?
"They're greatly over-represented in perpetrators... that implies things about women"

You say 'there's nothing inherently evil about men', but it sounds like you think they have a greater role in everything bad that happens.

I'm willing to say that it didn't come across the way you wanted it to, but c'mon!

 

[Thaluikhain]

That is a TERRIBLE thing to say!

Yes...that's one reason we shouldn't start with the assumption that people who do bad things are psychopaths. Because we must end up implying something about men.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Men today are punks.

Oh, hey, thanks. That'll REALLY get some thoughtful and considered discussion on this topic.

Fine.

But we are, we've gotten so thin skinned, I don't know what's causing it but I think it's the "toddler syndrome", when you lash out when you don't get your way.

A while back some thug tried to start a fight with me on a train because he thought I was someone else, I kept saying "it wasn't me" but he was adamant, fool wouldn't let it go after a brief recess he started up, I tried to change the subject by saying "nice dog" and he tried to get it to attack me (the dog was to lax) before it could get anywhere our stop (yep) came we parted ways and he left in a strop. If the ride had been longer if I'd have cussed him out (cuz I have a big mouth) if he had convinced his dog, who knows. And I live in an area where most young guys have a knife at hand. And all for what? Thinking all black guys look alike

It's weird though, have any one of you heard of a woman killing a man because he rejected her? I know a woman has killed a man for giving other people more attention but not over "No, I won't go out with you"

Was all these attacks one of those "in the moment" thing? I'm starting to suspect they've engaged in this sort of violence before.

There's a story I read today of this young guy that killed his mum today here [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/sicko-teen-life-killing-texas-mother-raping-corpse-article-1.1968393] and planned to kill his sister, and from what I've read/heard was showing signs of insanity (necrophilia and suicide). And again, a single parent house hold. I doubt they'll be any significant numbers but I wounder if you gauged all the crimes committed by men from broken homes what the percentage would be.

I'm not saying a stable home will change this growing apathy but i'd like to know if it matters

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Now, certainly, there's nothing inherently evil about men, but to say that anyone that does something we'd judge evil must be a psychopath is just avoiding looking at the issue. The rates of such thing greatly vary depending on culture.

Saying that the people who do bad things must be psychopaths, and given that men are greatly over-represented in perpetrators...that implies things about men.

That is a TERRIBLE thing to say!
Jesus, dude, comparison (most recent one I could google: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/17/texas-execute-lisa-coleman-lethal-injection-woman) how many women kill children compared to men?
"They're greatly over-represented in perpetrators... that implies things about women"

You say 'there's nothing inherently evil about men', but it sounds like you think they have a greater role in everything bad that happens.

I'm willing to say that it didn't come across the way you wanted it to, but c'mon!

I wish I could find the stats but I remember reading that Women kill more children than men but men lead in family killings (as in lovers/wives, mothers, fathers and kids etc.) and that women cause (instigate) more deaths than men, as in if a man kills another man it's often at the behest of a woman than the other way around.

I really wish I remember what the link was.

 

[Adam Lester]

Listening to two groups in a first world nation ***** at one another to figure out who is more oppressed is like watching two people sit there in a room and beat themselves in the face with hammers, refusing to stop until the opposing side feels sorry for them.


Women being murdered doesn't negate the fact that men get murdered, men getting murdered doesn't negate the fact that women get murdered.

 

[carnex]

Listening to two groups in a first world nation ***** at one another to figure out who is more oppressed is like watching two people sit there in a room and beat themselves in the face with hammers, refusing to stop until the opposing side feels sorry for them.


Women being murdered doesn't negate the fact that men get murdered, men getting murdered doesn't negate the fact that women get murdered.

But that is not the question, the question is, or at least i think that was OP's intention, should women be afraid of unknown men approaching them in general?

 

[Adam Lester]

Listening to two groups in a first world nation ***** at one another to figure out who is more oppressed is like watching two people sit there in a room and beat themselves in the face with hammers, refusing to stop until the opposing side feels sorry for them.


Women being murdered doesn't negate the fact that men get murdered, men getting murdered doesn't negate the fact that women get murdered.

But that is not the question, the question is, or at least i think that was OP's intention, should women be afraid of unknown men approaching them in general?

I was merely commenting on the chucklefuckery that these kind of questions devolve down into.

On this question, wouldn't that be up to an individual's judgement? I dunno, I would be pretty baffled as well as a little hurt if I approached a woman in the bar and she jumped up, shrieked that I'm a potential rapist/serial killer while running out the door flailing her arms (if I wanted that, I'd have a Tumblr account).

Unfortunately, tragedies like this are unavoidable in the long run because they are random and you don't know a murderer in some cases until they get to murdering. We can be aware and prepared (mace, blackjacks, "escape plans", etc) but sometimes even that won't be enough.
Let me give you an example. When I was living in Virginia, there was talk about how a woman picked up a dude from the bar and asked him to come back to her hotel room. When he entered the room, there were three men waiting...they beat the piss out of him, gang raped the guy and stole his money, and gave her a cut.

Fun fact: Not to brag, I've had my share of one night stands. Even with this knowledge in the back of my head, it never stopped me from going back to a strange woman's hotel room. I never got raped. None of my friends who had similar experiences in the bar ever got gang raped by a pack of roaming freaks.

I understand that this is a bit disjointed and all, but I hope I'm getting some kind of point across which is live your life, but don't live your life in fear.

There are screwed up people out there, but they're far and few in between.

 

[Dizchu]

Woman gets assaulted/mutilated by man = nationwide outrage, "rape culture", "this is why I need feminism".

Man gets castrated by a woman = laughs and encouragement on awful talk shows, "you go girl!", "the guy deserved it".

No wonder there's widespread mistrust between genders. Look, men are more likely to be killed but are also more likely to commit homicide. I think that indicates a problem with masculine identity, there's something about it that has an expectation for violence deep down. Men are expected to stand up for themselves, fight, suffer the consequences.

It does not mean women have it tougher. Not in a general sense at least.

All I have going through my head is the saying 'A mans worst fear is being laughed at - a woman's worst fear is being murdered'

You have a very skewed idea of society if you honestly believe this. I'm not trying to be mean. Gay men get murdered for chatting other men up, straight men get assaulted for "trying it on" with a woman in a relationship (by her boyfriend if he's around). Now you might take the fact that most of the perpetrators are male as proof of "male entitlement" or "female oppression" or what have you, but I think it indicates absolutely rotten expectations given to men that enforce a constant doubt of their own masculinity which may result in them feeling the need to lash out. I'm not defending their actions for a second but society is at least partially to blame.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Woman gets assaulted/mutilated by man = nationwide outrage, "rape culture", "this is why I need feminism".

Or, more likely, not. Every nation would be in a nonstop state of outrage if that was the case.

You have a very skewed idea of society if you honestly believe this. I'm not trying to be mean. Gay men get murdered for chatting other men up, straight men get assaulted for "trying it on" with a woman in a relationship (by her boyfriend if he's around). Now you might take the fact that most of the perpetrators are male as proof of "male entitlement" or "female oppression" or what have you, but I think it indicates absolutely rotten expectations given to men that enforce a constant doubt of their own masculinity which may result in them feeling the need to lash out. I'm not defending their actions for a second but society is at least partially to blame.

As mentioned, this has been clarified a number of times in this thread already. It's about what, specifically, the genders fear from each other, not in general.

On this question, wouldn't that be up to an individual's judgement? I dunno, I would be pretty baffled as well as a little hurt if I approached a woman in the bar and she jumped up, shrieked that I'm a potential rapist/serial killer while running out the door flailing her arms (if I wanted that, I'd have a Tumblr account).

Unfortunately, tragedies like this are unavoidable in the long run because they are random and you don't know a murderer in some cases until they get to murdering. We can be aware and prepared (mace, blackjacks, "escape plans", etc) but sometimes even that won't be enough.

Sure, but when it does happen, if she is raped, then she will be blamed. People will say it's her own fault for going out drinking, effectively for not running away shrieking from you at the bar.

 

[Jux]

Are some dudes really surprised by this? Why do they think some women are so wary of random guys asking them out?

It's obvious that this is the fault of feminism. It's turned an entire generation of women into professional victims.

 

[PatrickXD]

Two women were murdered, that's tragic. That isn't necessarily indicative of any trend; it's literally the second smallest sample size possible.

 

[HalfTangible]

All I have going through my head is the saying 'A mans worst fear is being laughed at - a woman's worst fear is being murdered'

This saying is stupid, belittling to EVERYONE involved, and inaccurate.

My worst fear is that I will wake up one day to find that everyone and everything I ever thought I knew was, in fact, a lie and that I had made it all up in an attempt to keep myself from knowing that I'm actually a serial killer in an insane asylum.

My second is that a woman will accuse me of raping her child thereby destroying my life, livelihood and any chance at a happy life.

My third is that I will be forced to violate my self-imposed oath of celibacy, dooming me to burn for all eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

My fourth is dieing before completing a novel. Fifth is that I'll commit suicide, then comes wasps, needles, and drowning.

How is this " belittling"? I have been attacked my multiple men, have been stalked by men, Have had to put a man in prison for actually trying to kill me and the only reason I am here now is my neighbor stopped him and was stabbed in the process. Women fear these things because of our experiences. The reason women fear this is because this is not some thing you read about on the news, most of us have been attacked by men or has had someone close to us who has. Of course I am afraid for myself and others due to these things. I was violently raped, my best friend was raped, my sister was raped, my grandmother was raped, ALL by different men... this is not some uncommon thing at all is the problem. It is very scary telling a guy "No" because of how many guys respond when you do. Trying to make them understand that you do not want relations with them without them becoming angry is often difficult to do.

I am trying to understand why you think it would belittling to admit that I have nightmares about being attacked now due to events that happened. Why would saying that is your worst fear be belittling?

I'm referring to the quote, not to any individual man or woman.

Geez louise, take your pick >.>
-because it's a gross oversimplification of human relationships AND the relationships between men and women?
-because reducing a person's worst fears to how their relationships will pan out is just DUMB for the same reason we have the Bechdel test?
-because no, 'most women' have not been attacked. 1 in 5 is too high a number for something so awful but it's not 'most' by any stretch of the imagination
-because it implies men are all the same?
-because it implies women are all the same?
-because it implies men are never afraid of being taken advantage of?
-because 'assault' does not need to be sexual?
-because according to department of justice statistics gathered between 2008 and 2012, sexual assault has fallen by more than 50% in recent years? This isn't some massive epidemic on the rise here, women do not need to board up their house and stockpile food for the coming storm.
-because EVERYONE that is both sane and not clinically depressed is afraid of being murdered, raped, or just plain beat up?

 

[HalfTangible]

All I have going through my head is the saying 'A mans worst fear is being laughed at - a woman's worst fear is being murdered'

This saying is stupid, belittling to EVERYONE involved, and inaccurate.

My worst fear is that I will wake up one day to find that everyone and everything I ever thought I knew was, in fact, a lie and that I had made it all up in an attempt to keep myself from knowing that I'm actually a serial killer in an insane asylum.

My second is that a woman will accuse me of raping her child thereby destroying my life, livelihood and any chance at a happy life.

My third is that I will be forced to violate my self-imposed oath of celibacy, dooming me to burn for all eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

My fourth is dieing before completing a novel. Fifth is that I'll commit suicide, then comes wasps, needles, and drowning.

The saying has been clarified several times already in this thread.

It isn't about fears in general, it's about what men fear about women, and about what women fear about men.

I swore off of relationships in part because I'm afraid a woman I say 'no' to sex with will call the police, say I raped her and no jury on earth will say otherwise.

To say that all women are the same and that all men are the same (which the quote DOES) is the very definition of sexism and it's /stupid/.

 

[Thaluikhain]

-because EVERYONE that is both sane and not clinically depressed is afraid of being murdered, raped, or just plain beat up?

True in the sense that they'd not like that to happen, not true in the sense that everyone has a reason to fear that actually happening to them.

Most people would find the prospect of being blown up by a Taliban IED scary, most people aren't walking around in Afghanistan.

I swore off of relationships in part because I'm afraid a woman I say 'no' to sex with will call the police, say I raped her and no jury on earth will say otherwise.

Many juries would, the conviction rate is tiny.

To say that all women are the same and that all men are the same (which the quote DOES) is the very definition of sexism and it's /stupid/.

Sure, but you try to say something deep and meaningful and 100% correct about society in a single sentence. It's a generalisation, we know that.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Bad thing happens in the news. People somehow surprised.