Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. Also, DoW Lowen, go away and never come back. This was pretty stupid.Maze1125 said:
Women and 'sensitive' men
- Thread starter DoW Lowen
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... You sir, are a generalising sweeping statement making fool, I see my self as a nice guy with girls, hell I AM a nice guy with girls, I've been with only ever one girl and I do love her. And while not very masculine I can say your wrong. this is only true for the teenage years. Maybe young 20's in which case girls are just as bad if not worse.
I like guys who finish last
I do not think that your point is so simple. As the end of the day it comes down to two people just getting along with each other.
Sex is just like food. When someone is hungry they will envision a banquet, a beautuful feast filled with exotic delights and flavours, but in the end, have egg and chips.
I think it is finding someone you are comfortable with in the long term. Sexual attraction only goes so far. Alpha males are nice but, they know they are the `alpha male` and get annoying.
I do not think that your point is so simple. As the end of the day it comes down to two people just getting along with each other.
Sex is just like food. When someone is hungry they will envision a banquet, a beautuful feast filled with exotic delights and flavours, but in the end, have egg and chips.
I think it is finding someone you are comfortable with in the long term. Sexual attraction only goes so far. Alpha males are nice but, they know they are the `alpha male` and get annoying.
lol dude just do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up? Stop talking about stuff you obviously know nothing about.
Some girls like nice guys, some girls like dickheads, some girls like both and some girls even like other girls. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe women don't like you because you talk shit like this?? You can't just generalise, life doesn't work like that.
You should stop analysing the petty things and just live your sodding life.
Some girls like nice guys, some girls like dickheads, some girls like both and some girls even like other girls. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe women don't like you because you talk shit like this?? You can't just generalise, life doesn't work like that.
You should stop analysing the petty things and just live your sodding life.
Good, if somewhat contraversal post OP, you hit onto something that has been developing in my mind for quite a while now, and taken it further and in new directions.
I only actually learned how i should behave around women if i want to score with them a few years ago, and that was from watching the Alpha-Males. Now, i am in the interesting position where i, being just like this guy here-
Btw, introverts rejoice! I remember another escapist telling me how that while women find alpha-males attractive, as they grow older, learning from experience that many alpha-males are jerks, they go for the introverts. As introvert's make more stable, loyal and reliable boyfreinds, something crucial to a relationship. Which from my personal experience is true, i've only ever had one relationship before, but it lasted 16 months, which wasn't bad for a 17 year old. However, my alpha-male friend has had dozens of girlfriends, his record is 4 months.
I only actually learned how i should behave around women if i want to score with them a few years ago, and that was from watching the Alpha-Males. Now, i am in the interesting position where i, being just like this guy here-
And i'm good friends with an alpha male. Now, he does indeed like to appear dominant in front of his mates, and no doubt girls find this very attractive. Does he care about the opinions of the opposite sex? I am pretty sure he does, and if this not because at heart he's a good person and respects others opinions, it is at least because he has a vested interest in making sure that certain members of the opposite sex, like his girlfriend say, thinks well of him. This is of course so he knows that the relationship is stable, and there are no risks to the pinnacle in this mans pride.Buffoon said:
Btw, introverts rejoice! I remember another escapist telling me how that while women find alpha-males attractive, as they grow older, learning from experience that many alpha-males are jerks, they go for the introverts. As introvert's make more stable, loyal and reliable boyfreinds, something crucial to a relationship. Which from my personal experience is true, i've only ever had one relationship before, but it lasted 16 months, which wasn't bad for a 17 year old. However, my alpha-male friend has had dozens of girlfriends, his record is 4 months.
I didn't make it through the entire thing, but I read all I needed to. You are generalizing. I am a nice guy, but I'm not a doormat and I'm not wondering why women date everyone else but me because...(dramatic pause)...I'm married. This whole idea that women are attracted to "bad boys" is an adolescent thing. You don't have to be brutish to be confident. You don't have to be a jerk to be an alpha male. And let me tell you something that I've learned from experience...the type of women who want a "bad boy" are not, I repeat, NOT worth the time or the effort.
Firstly, yes I am making a lot of generalizations. I feel being more specific closes the argument off and does not allow for any kind of discussion. Too specific and I'll just find a thread of people nodding or shaking.
Secondly, please don't get me wrong, I'm not just talking about 'jocks'. I am speaking of a more broader male populace. And I apologize if the argument I put across seemed to only scream "men are assholes", the entire point of it was display how people have subtle sexisms within them.
And when I compare nice guys to 'males', I simply mean mean who can provide security as opposed to a guy who may be the nicest guy in the village of Isengard, but if he can't take care of a woman than the woman will not consider him. Feel free to argue.
ANYWAY, A lot of you may be just the exception of the rule. I do not doubt you're integrity, and I'm sure you say what you are, and if friends don't help each other than they aren't friends. I don't disagree with that for a second.
But from an evolutionary stand point can you disagree when I say that men are very conscious of public appearances in regards to power? Even if a guy gives off a "i don't give a fuck" vibe, that's still power in of itself isn't it? And can you claim that a majority of men will not treat men and women differently even if you do, because really would you consider yourself a sample model for the general population? Feel free to disagree with me, the sparks of conflicting views ignite the flames of enlightenment.
I'm getting a lot of feedback, which I honestly like I'm going to double post this and reply one at a time. So I apologize in advance for this.
EDIT: Oh please don't make conclusions on me based on this post, I only type what I see, not what I feel.
Secondly, please don't get me wrong, I'm not just talking about 'jocks'. I am speaking of a more broader male populace. And I apologize if the argument I put across seemed to only scream "men are assholes", the entire point of it was display how people have subtle sexisms within them.
And when I compare nice guys to 'males', I simply mean mean who can provide security as opposed to a guy who may be the nicest guy in the village of Isengard, but if he can't take care of a woman than the woman will not consider him. Feel free to argue.
ANYWAY, A lot of you may be just the exception of the rule. I do not doubt you're integrity, and I'm sure you say what you are, and if friends don't help each other than they aren't friends. I don't disagree with that for a second.
But from an evolutionary stand point can you disagree when I say that men are very conscious of public appearances in regards to power? Even if a guy gives off a "i don't give a fuck" vibe, that's still power in of itself isn't it? And can you claim that a majority of men will not treat men and women differently even if you do, because really would you consider yourself a sample model for the general population? Feel free to disagree with me, the sparks of conflicting views ignite the flames of enlightenment.
I'm getting a lot of feedback, which I honestly like I'm going to double post this and reply one at a time. So I apologize in advance for this.
EDIT: Oh please don't make conclusions on me based on this post, I only type what I see, not what I feel.
I'm initially more emotionally closed off to women than men, because my friends are the kind that have a deep and meaningful sometime after 2.00am everytime we get drunk and it just seems normal to me. My current girlfriend was under the impression I was a bit of an asshole I think, because after we had been going out for a while she said "Wow, you are a lot nicer than I thought you were.", I laughed, because I can remember all the playful jabs I took at her. After a while I open up a bit, and hence she realised I wasn't the dick I was coming across as.
I have one friend who basically fits the mold of your "Man" though. He acts emotionless around guys, and unaffected by death and things... But after talking to girls who he has been with, they are at a loss when I talk about him as if he has no heart, because they say he is very emotional and sensitive.
So the problem with generalisations; I don't have any jock friends, but I also don't really have any friends that are like the people on the escapist (Into computer games, forums etc). They are mostly just moderately popular, average guys who don't seem particularly driven to appear manly at all. It just doesn't seem that important among my friends, and they will wear pink if they want to but not make a point of doing it for some stupid reason.
That isn't to say I won't hit a guy, drink heavily, smell bad (sometimes) and look rough with constant stubble. No one would call me feminine in any way, but I don't make a thing of appearing manlier than I am to other guys because I can't see the merits of friends who would think less of me for being myself.
I have one friend who basically fits the mold of your "Man" though. He acts emotionless around guys, and unaffected by death and things... But after talking to girls who he has been with, they are at a loss when I talk about him as if he has no heart, because they say he is very emotional and sensitive.
So the problem with generalisations; I don't have any jock friends, but I also don't really have any friends that are like the people on the escapist (Into computer games, forums etc). They are mostly just moderately popular, average guys who don't seem particularly driven to appear manly at all. It just doesn't seem that important among my friends, and they will wear pink if they want to but not make a point of doing it for some stupid reason.
That isn't to say I won't hit a guy, drink heavily, smell bad (sometimes) and look rough with constant stubble. No one would call me feminine in any way, but I don't make a thing of appearing manlier than I am to other guys because I can't see the merits of friends who would think less of me for being myself.
I don't doubt the existence of love, and I would lying if I said that love can be so strong that a person would die for it, betray everything they believe for it.Zeeky_Santos said:
However, true love is debatable. I don't deny that love can be true and the love can be so strong that a person can see nothing else but the object of their affection. However do you find it odd that for a majority (not everyone, there's always exceptions to the rules), a majority of life partners just happened to be within driving distance of each other?
I come off a cynical I know, but I was taught to question everything.
... Yes?DoW Lowen said:
I understand theres the argument that subtle preconceptions exist in everyone's mind that influence their interactions with everyone but I can't help but think you've taken that argument incredably far out of proportion. It's also not strictly a sex based argument, people have preconceptions about everyone they meet as basic as if your hair is uncombed you are lazy.
What I find most interesting about this thread is why you felt the need to write it. Theres a subtle hint of aggression in the post that makes me think somethings happened to really illustrate this concept in your life (probably within the last 72 hours) that sparked your revelations and subsequent proclamations.
Can I take a guess? It's late and I'm feeling bold. You're Mr. Nice-guy, a girl you've been eyeing recently paired with Mr. Chick-magnet and it upsets you that instinctual physiological drives would compell her to make this mistake? Half-way through your post you realized there was an important intellectual point to expound upon that was tangentially related to the issue at hand, namely that the vast majority of men (although, not yourself presumably) are sexist in minor unacknowledged ways and that the human condition is really a grisly thing and people are essentially barbaric in thier instincts?
Am I close? I suppose the truer question would be, instead of guessing blindly, to ask why you felt the need to post this. I don't know why but I'm curious. You can ignore me I you like, I won't take offense.
What I find most interesting about this thread is why you felt the need to write it. Theres a subtle hint of aggression in the post that makes me think somethings happened to really illustrate this concept in your life (probably within the last 72 hours) that sparked your revelations and subsequent proclamations.
Can I take a guess? It's late and I'm feeling bold. You're Mr. Nice-guy, a girl you've been eyeing recently paired with Mr. Chick-magnet and it upsets you that instinctual physiological drives would compell her to make this mistake? Half-way through your post you realized there was an important intellectual point to expound upon that was tangentially related to the issue at hand, namely that the vast majority of men (although, not yourself presumably) are sexist in minor unacknowledged ways and that the human condition is really a grisly thing and people are essentially barbaric in thier instincts?
Am I close? I suppose the truer question would be, instead of guessing blindly, to ask why you felt the need to post this. I don't know why but I'm curious. You can ignore me I you like, I won't take offense.
I don't think you realise that emotions are platonic, and have little to do with traditional gender roles...
Traditional human sociosexual interaction is thus:
When men are around other men, they will compete.
When women are around other women, they will collaborate.
When men and women are together, the men will try to impress the women while the women will be testing the men and judging their mating potential.
Emotions do not necessarily factor in, the whole thing could be based on one's ability to play snooker, where the best player gets first pick of the women, and the worst player gets the woman nobody else wanted. That's our tribal herd mentality, and it can apply to all social values, including emotional expression.
Traditional human sociosexual interaction is thus:
When men are around other men, they will compete.
When women are around other women, they will collaborate.
When men and women are together, the men will try to impress the women while the women will be testing the men and judging their mating potential.
Emotions do not necessarily factor in, the whole thing could be based on one's ability to play snooker, where the best player gets first pick of the women, and the worst player gets the woman nobody else wanted. That's our tribal herd mentality, and it can apply to all social values, including emotional expression.
Here here! Let us drink in the name of Odin.Buffoon said:
I actually am quite similar, I can't put myself first, especially if a female is involved, people walk all over me, use my shoulder to cry on, then walk all over me, just like the next guy.
What a life.
huh, interesting read, and its true i do value a womens opinion to be worth less than a male, unless its an strong overly secure female (the kind that "though" guys would call lesbians)
but i will hope that the nice guy act will someday land me a nice confident partner.
but i will hope that the nice guy act will someday land me a nice confident partner.
Wait, thats a bit heavy mate. Even if there are some big generalisations, I'd rather read this than nothing at all, or another f**king list thread. Don't toss away the potential for some decent conversation just because you took a little bit of offense.ph3onix said:
I don't tell anyone anything to be honest, I listen to everybody, and yes I like to win at most things. If a woman asks a question if she replys I will listen. I guess I sort of care what people think of me since I try to be nice to everyone, but if people try to go against that I will show them where I stand.
Firstly, you make horribly sweeping generalisations on topics which you don't sound particularly well-studied in.DoW Lowen said:
Secondly, and more importantly, your rantings make you sound painfully alike to a sexually frustrated teenager who's jealous of the guys that get the girls. You're trying to demonise them just because they're better with girls than you.
Rather than posting a long-winded whine on an internet forum about it, go and speak to girls more. It'll actually make a change, for one thing.