Women and 'sensitive' men

[fletch_talon]

I

Ahem. It appears your rant is made of fail, sir

Indeed. It was bashed quite heartily.

Indubitably old chum, one could surmise that the poster of such a topic is rather butthurt. One could also venture to say that the term "butthurt" could be applied in the literal sense. I am of course referring to a phony "nice guy" coercing a party or parties into the act of anal sex, thus perpetuating a rather dismal view of the male populace.

For the record, physical strength in modern society means very little. I have yet to fight off contenders for "my woman" whereas I frequently use my empathy and sensitivity to comfort my girlfriend when the world has got her down. Now I will not be a pushover, don't get me wrong, but in public I don't believe I project a sense of "dominance" I believe my persona is determined by my mood the environment I'm in and the people who approach me.

And in the end it was my compassion and ability to open up and share deep conversation that gained me a better half. Neither strength nor dominance came into play.

Is it bad that I read that entire thing with a Posh Brit accent?

Well technically only the first part was intended that way, but ye' kin reads it however ye' dang well feels like et, boy howdy yessiree.

 

[thepj]

Women I?m sure most of you have encountered this. The guy you know, he is popular among his friends, he is masculine, probably has a bit of a bad boy streak to him and he rarely seems like the sensitive type. But when he is around you or a woman, he is quite the teddy bear. He is open and honest and bares his soul to you. How endearing?

Allow me to shed some light on these types. They are chauvinistic and do not think very much of you, worse off they probably are not aware of it. The god honest truth, and whether a fellow male out there will admittedly stand by me or not ? it?s true.

Men are egocentric, power hungry and seek to be dominant.

Any male who does not exhibit these behaviours in some form or manner is not male, I do not speak in the biological sense, rather from a framework which see?s gender and it?s social expectations and sexual anatomy as separate. To be those qualities is to be a man ? and this is from an evolutionary stand point. Women find door mats to be very unattractive as they could never provide the security and comfort a woman needs. Women like men they can rely on, and the alpha male who is confident, strong and never afraid to be assertive is much more of a viable dating option than the ?nice guy?.

Nice guys finish last. It?s survival of the fittest. Between the brute and the gentlemen, the brute will have a higher chance of surviving and procreating.

But enough about this, I?m sure any woman with some wisdom or experience is well aware of this. As for younger girls, if you?re wondering why you might be attracted to the bad boys, this is why. But this little segment was for my fellow male escapees. I?ve seen my fair share of relationship posts, you guys are really nice even if you can be a bunch of smartasses, but I?m will to wager that for many of you ? you have wondered why even though you?re a nice guy and you?d treat the girl with love and respect she deserves, why does she only consider you a friend and continue to date guys who are VERY unlike you. Just consider what I just said.

Back on topic now with the bad boy with a sensitive soul.

I may just be generalizing and you may probably scream at me saying ?but the guy I know is nothing like you say?. Well you may just be the exception to the rule; either that or you?re just not looking close enough.

The male species are great performers, I mean theatrically not in the dirty sense. They can put up a façade and keep up appearances so well they can fool themselves. They sometimes have a soft smile and a sensitive look that only women can tune into and find. Males will generally not delve into soulful and heart to heart conversations with their fellow males. A lot of them will ? but I?ll get into that later. But with a woman they will open up like a Christmas present, and you women will find this adorable.

The truth is men never want to appear weak in front of other men, including their friends. Which is why men are generally ?rough? with each other. In competitions they will have no inhibitions about crushing their best buddy in the ranking ladder. They?ll never admit it, but almost all well adjusted men think that they are slightly superior to their male friends in some aspect.

But why is it with a woman that they are not afraid to vulnerable. Why is it that when other people will call a man shallow assholes, there is some woman out there other than their mother who will defend them claiming they are ?complicated, misunderstood, more than meets the eye?? It?s simple really, those women can see the vulnerable side the men consciously or unconsciously chooses to show them. Everything I stated leads up to the next statement ?

A lot of men don?t value a woman?s opinion, which is why they are not generally afraid to show them weakness.

Men think that all women are suppose to have a nurturing soft soggy heart, and men will have little reservation vomiting all their thoughts and feelings into them. The same thoughts and feelings they refuse to share with their friends. Because once their friends know, that?s it ? the power politics has shifted in their favour. Men think they have to be stoic which is why their brethren can never know. However if a female is aware of the feelings, the male will seriously not care if that woman?s perception of him changes. Because in all honesty, it?s probably changed for the better. Men think all women are sympathetic, and women think the same thing. Women actually are a lot more sympathetic and nurturing than men. But men believe that means that women will feel affection and pity for almost anything.

All the men reading this, honestly think back when you told a woman something you would never tell your buddies. If her perception of you changed, would you care? If she thought less of you, than you?d probably try to rationalize it in your mind that she is just a ***** and you should never have trusted her. But if she thought you were not as stoic, as strong, as iron willed as you appear to others, would that slow you down for a second? But if a few of your mates thought the same thing could you shrug that off? If she told you she thought you were weak, you would think something along the lines of ?like your opinion matters to me? but if you?re mates said that you?d feel more insecure.

Now for men who have the heart to heart with their buddies. That is probably a true honest moment that you?ve had. More so than compared to when you told the same thing to a woman? Think about it.

What I?m trying to show is that there are very subtle sexisms among most of us; we just may not realize it because they aren?t so clear cut as sexual harassment and oppression. So men, really think twice before you claim you treat men and women the same. Because do you really?

At last someone who gets it, while this may need some refining to make it correct the basic idea is correct. WOMEN DON'T LIKE NICE GUYS (there are some exeption but this holds true for most women).

lol dude just do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up? Stop talking about stuff you obviously know nothing about.

Some girls like nice guys, some girls like dickheads, some girls like both and some girls even like other girls. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe women don't like you because you talk shit like this?? You can't just generalise, life doesn't work like that.

You should stop analysing the petty things and just live your sodding life.

ok now i had to respond to this, women and datting is not a petty thing, the opposite sex and mateing is pretty much the purpose of life.

... You sir, are a generalising sweeping statement making fool, I see my self as a nice guy with girls, hell I AM a nice guy with girls, I've been with only ever one girl and I do love her. And while not very masculine I can say your wrong. this is only true for the teenage years. Maybe young 20's in which case girls are just as bad if not worse.

wrong! he is generalizing but masculinity matters in your thirties and beyond as well. it may matter less but it still does. which do you think the average woman in her thirties will go for? the man who can give her the security she wants and is still masculine, he work out he he's popular amoung her friends and doesn't pull the "nice guy" move of being needy and clingy? or the one who can give her the security but who is needy clingy and generaly a nice guy?


in short men i have one thing to say to you (espesialy the nice guys out there) there is a way to be that chick magnet! FUCKIN BECOME ONE!! you don't need lines or looks or money, just confidence and some basic skills (i'll make a thread for those)

EDIT: i've just read all of the responces, not just down to the last one i commented on. I expected better of you escapists.Telling a man his oppinions are bull, which is just a form of flaming as far as i'm concerned

 

[Meemaimoh]

How the hell did you manage to be sexist against both sexes?

*snort* I was amazed by this, too. Obviously the OP is incredibly gifted.

 

[fletch_talon]

Sorry for the double post, but I thought I'd mention that I added my 2 cents to this persons research and suggest any of you who are asked to, do the same. They're nice enough regardless of what you think of their opinion and I found it quite enlightening to answer certain questions. In some cases it made me read deeper into my own beliefs and motivations.

 

[Meemaimoh]

At last someone who gets it, while this may need some refining to make it correct the basic idea is correct. WOMEN DON'T LIKE NICE GUYS (there are some exeption but this holds true for most women).

No. Women don't like doormats who can't get over rejection.

Seriously, there are enough voices for women out there explaining that they want confidence, not assholery. Why do these myths persist?

 

[Sebenko]

ohh emm gee! This is FABULOUS!

I'm sure you all know what happens next, but if you're unaware, I put a little queer eye into the topic.

I'm a nice guy, and I've been in a relationship for four years now. With a nice guy, and I sure as hell don't want to trade in for a "bad boy".
Plus, behaving like a dick didn't make a friend of mine like me more, especially not more than she liked her boyfriend.

 

[nicholaxxx]

Spoiler: me rambling, unless you're THAT bored, move on to my next bit

I actually open up to my male friends more often, generally because I let my guard down and act more like I normally do on daily basis (I act sarcasitc and the like, I'm a smartass, but I actually do have *GASP* emotions) because they have my opinoins on most of the stuff I do, and have more in common with me than my own damned brother...

anyway, I open up to my male friends more because I don't feel like I have to impress them, that's not to say that I don't open up to my female friends, it's just not as often, mainly because I'm with my two closest male friends alone more often than my female friends (not to mention, I feel more ackward around women, typical nerd >_<). I generally act more indifferent around females, my friends know that I actually do care about their lives (when they aren't just complaining for the sake of complaining) instead of just shrugging it off with the occasional 'Okay, cool' or sarcastic comment. I never really go into the realm of WAAAYYYY to personal (like doctors visits and the like) but It's never something as shallow as 'hey, I learned a new combo' It's a nice mix of soemthing like 'my aunt died' and 'man, I'm having trouble in math' or whatever.

I actually care more about the opinions of my female peers over my male peers, because I know that whatever women think that's negative about me is just another stike against me for my marketability.

If a guy says 'dude, you're gay' then it's either a joking insult or just one of the retard rednecks/gangstas using it as a euphomism for retarded or something else negative. So I can shrug it off with a smart ass comment like 'wouldn't YOU like that?'

If a girl says 'dude, you're gay' then more often than not, she'll be using it as a term for how unlikeable I am, or in the homoexual sense. So I can't shrug it off or she'll tell every other girl in the school about how much of an asshole I am for talking back to a lady or whatever, most of my come backs only work against other guys, so 'wouldn't YOU like that' would only be insinuating homosexuality on my part, not theirs. Not to mention how the collaborative work of a few females can be even more nasty than the collab. efforts of a ton a males. way more nasty, so I tend to keep most of the females opinions of me neutral/positive with not really opening up (I'm football player size, but am a complete teddy... unfortunately T_T) keppng the jokes and intelligent conversation to a maximum.

Women want someone who will defend her if neccesary, not some over masculine Marcus Fenix wannabe, the only reason why being strong was a necessity when we were all living in caves was because men had to fight for the female they wanted to make snu snu with, since we have LONG since needed that, women tend to go for the nice guy who isn't a pushover

(just to make things clear, for the OP and that one person who agrees with OP a few posts above me bad boy/tough guy and not being a pushover are NOT synonomous)

They want someone who she can trust to help her when she wants it, IE, he uncle just died and she needs comfort, she wants you to do that, comfort her, and someone who can defend her/stand up for her when she needs it, IE: some dicks are harrassing her and won't listen to her, she wants you to fucking help her! she doesn't want some guy who will be a prick and beat the shit out of anyone who looks at her funny, that's just being over assertive and gets creepy as hell.

I'm a nice guy, but not generally around women, sure I let them know that I have emotions and the like, but I don't overwhelm them with 'I'm so sad, hold me!' because that gets annoying as hell really fast and is a genreal turn off, when something makes me feel sad, I generally say 'sorry for not talking much/ paying much attention, I'm just kind of sad/depressed lately'.
If I'm happy, I generally act the part.

I only really open up when there aren't women around, because I find the judgement of women to be WAAAY more critical than men IE: a dude calls you a dick, he's just joking, a girl calls you a dick, you probably were being an asshole.

Just to sum up:
-women like people who can defend them if needed, but isn't a macho hardcase
-women like men who show them emotion and open up enough
-men open up to their male friends because then they can let their guard down more/trust the men more
-A huge ego will only make women think less of you
-men who open up to women do so because they trust said women, and their opinion matters to them or else they wouldn't do it, IE: NO guy in their right mind would go up to some random girl and start opening up
- If someone is a sexist for sharing emotions, then I guess we're all sexist at one point then, huh?
- most married couples share emotions with each other, quite willingly in fact, I guess neither of them care what the other thinks, huh?
-You're wrong

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

So being an egotistical asshole is a benefit? My success is guaranteed!

Seriously though I do admit to egotism on my part however this assumption the TC made is as already proclaimed, a wide generalization with a punishing lack of fact to bolster the claim. In my opinion the notion of "Women do not like nice guys" is utter nonsense. There exist numerous nice guys with success rates a mile long. Women do not like doormats, push overs, clingy guys and etc. Somehow along the way this turned into some warpped theory women prefer the bad boys. You do not need to be the stereotypical bad boy to attract a girl, you simply have to define confidence, strong will and often a sense of humor. I would challenge anyone to state those are imporable for nice guys to have possess.

Some of us toe the line, so to speak. This is the category I fall within. I easily am viewed a jerk at certain times because of my relentless sarcastic and teasing nature; hell even my indifferent "I don't care" attitude has a tendency in my addition to a black list. Those same people who know me well can and have also started the precise opposite. It is all a matter of opinion not genetics.

As for a faux personality, I am who I am regardless of the location. I have never once changed my persona for another person or even on the Internet. If people cannot deal with the demeanor I represent they can drop off a cliff for all I care. I pride myself on the personality which I built after years of a far somber existence in my early teens and refuse to alter it to please another.

 

[teutonicman]

Reading this makes me ask, have you been recently spited by 1 or a number of these alpha males that you described?

 

[JanatUrlich]

ok now i had to respond to this, women and datting is not a petty thing, the opposite sex and mateing is pretty much the purpose of life.

And as a woman, don't you think I know more than some twat who's not getting laid?

 

[The_ModeRazor]

You're a happy guy, eh?
I can say for certain that being an insensitive (although somewhat funny) bastard doesn't help much with women.
Edit: Also, I'm constantly giving away my feelings. Like when I feel shit, I tell about it if asked. Apparently, I just look even more insensitive because I somehow tell it in a manner that makes me look like not giving 2 shits about myself.

 

[Ciarang]

Any male who does not exhibit these behaviours in some form or manner is not male, I do not speak in the biological sense, rather from a framework which see?s gender and it?s social expectations and sexual anatomy as separate. To be those qualities is to be a man ? and this is from an evolutionary stand point.

So I'm a woman then ?

 

[SmartIdiot]

Meh, a few valid points. However most of my female friends are bitches and I talk to them the same way I talk to my buddies, often with hilarious results/a slap across the face. This is funny because I'm honest all the time, with everyone, something my buddies lack so it's no surprise that I get a punch/tackled to the floor when I call them out. I mean sell them out.

Actually this is probably the wrong topic for that... maybe I just need to stop being such an ass towards my friends...

All fun and games though!

By the way, to say that all men are egocentric, power hungry and seek to be dominant is like saying all women are only looking for a rich man that they can sponge off. Which is not always the case. Generalisations...

 

[Shadowfaze]

it means very little. im not sensitive, nor is my girl, in fact she is worse than me and proud to be. interesting read though.

 

[JaredXE]

Women find door mats to be very unattractive as they could never provide the security and comfort a woman needs. Women like men they can rely on, and the alpha male who is confident, strong and never afraid to be assertive is much more of a viable dating option than the 'nice guy'.

I wanted to respond to this bit in particular, because it is a misconception that many hold.
In general, women lust after the alpha male, but love the nice-guy.
Why? Because the nice-guy is far far more likely to look after any children that have been born, but equally, a child is far more likely to survive it they have strong genes. So, evolutionarily speaking, the best thing to do is have sex with the tough-guy but be in a relationship with the nice-guy.

This means it very much looks like nice-guys finish last around dating age, but ultimately, nice-guys are going to end up having a lot more meaningful sex than the tough-guys.

Ah yes, they may "Love" the nice guy, and want to have one that supports them and their kids, but that "Lust" tends to be what a great many women pursue. It comes down to this: Nice guys don't generally wind up with anyone until they are in their thirties simply because it take women of comparable age that long to grow up and realize that being a groupie of a rock singer, going on vacations and screwing the hot cabana boy and generally ignoring (or worse, BEFRIENDING) all the decent and worthwhile men around them isn't a good long-term goal. Then when their eggs are shrivilling up and their looks are fading and they realize that the brooding badass in leather who just got out of the pen isn't going to support them....THEN they'll look for nice guys.

Nice guys, forget about having hot young sex. You get older, less adventurous and wild sex because they were already wild with all the guys you aren't.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

snipped cool story bro image

Cool overused, unimaginative meme, bro.

 

[nicholaxxx]

I'm not the most masculine man ever, I certainly try to avoid fights and am a generally nice guy. However (allow me to be a little chauvinistic here) I think the reason that I don't get as much female attention as I could is because women are too ruled by instinct. Now I know that the typical male is a hooting, violent stereotype but I have met many men who realise that why they do these things are simple instinct rather than an actual feeling, and work around it, like me. I, however, have never met a woman (at least in my age group) who realises that the reason she is attracted to the manly man is because she is hardwired to believe that he will protect the tribe and the cubs and all that shit, and the reason she wants to have kids is because 'the race must continue'. I know this sounds sexist but it's just what I've noticed. I think if women dropped the whole 'ruled by biology' thing it would be a much more equal sexual plane, rather than simply wait for our instincts to catch up with us. Sorry if I sound bitter, but I am. (Also all the women I know of my age won't stop saying 'like' and I don't even live in fucking America!)

added with my own litte ranty discussion, this is also pretty much how I feel, but have already wasted too much bandwidth... whatever QFT