Women aren't Babies

[Icehearted]

Gender is irrelevant.

You couldn't be more wrong.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-06/justice/justice_rape-definition-revised_1_definition-oral-penetration-sexual-abuse?_s=PM:JUSTICE

http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/05/breast-cancer-receives-much-more-research-funding-publicity-than-prostate-cancer-despite-similar-number-of-victims/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html

http://ncfm.org/2009/01/issues/mens-reproductive-rights/

Seriously, I could do this for days. I also have a lot of personal anecdotal experiences, including women that have gotten away with rape and molestation because they were women (as stated by prosecuting attorneys and the office of the AG). Women regularly infantilize and commodify themselves, yet seem offended by being infantilized or commodified. The list just goes on and and on.

There's absolutely no such thing as broad gender neutrality, and in my opinion there should not be. As a heterosexual male, I prefer ladies that are ladies, not as asexual or genderless beings. There is a healthy give and take on both sides that many women I've known have admitted enjoying.

Which reminds me; most of the ugliest things I've ever heard said about women in general were by women themselves. I've known a lot of women that just hate how their gender often behaves or what they get away with. It's fascinating, but more frustrating than anything.

 

[Kinguendo]

Really? You think no one cares when someone calls someone else "******" or "******"? Well, consider yourself proven wrong as I care. And it would be nice if no one needed protecting... but that simply isnt the case, and if you are in a position to offer support and you dont then you are not exactly the "good guy" in the story. Not to mention, women are the physically weaker of the 2 genders. Not all women are weaker than all men, but generally speaking women are weaker and that is something beyond a persons control that can be taken advantage of by dickheads... and if you arent helping the person being taken advantage of then consider yourself a dickhead.

Not to mention, being ganged up on for any reason isnt nice. If there are a bunch of sexist pricks and no one is there "playing the white knight" then you only have a hoarde of sexist pricks, only insults and attacks with no one supporting you. That can be hurtful and have negative real world effects, the worst examples of human behaviour didnt stop because of apathy... someone had to take a stand.

When I see someone being sexist I dont think "Ooooh, I can get something out of this by helping.", I think "There is someone whos circumstances of birth are being abused. I should help as it is the right thing to do, and hopefully if the tables are ever turned someone would do the same for me."... I dont want nor expect anything from being a decent person, it is a debt I owe to the entire planet for the rest of my life.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Gender is irrelevant.

You couldn't be more wrong.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-06/justice/justice_rape-definition-revised_1_definition-oral-penetration-sexual-abuse?_s=PM:JUSTICE

http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/05/breast-cancer-receives-much-more-research-funding-publicity-than-prostate-cancer-despite-similar-number-of-victims/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html

http://ncfm.org/2009/01/issues/mens-reproductive-rights/

Seriously, I could do this for days. I also have a lot of personal anecdotal experiences, including women that have gotten away with rape and molestation because they were women (as stated by prosecuting attorneys and the office of the AG). Women regularly infantilize and commodify themselves, yet seem offended by being infantilized or commodified. The list just goes on and and on.

There's absolutely no such thing as broad gender neutrality, and in my opinion there should not be. As a heterosexual male, I prefer ladies that are ladies, not as asexual or genderless beings. There is a healthy give and take on both sides that many women I've known have admitted enjoying.

Which reminds me; most of the ugliest things I've ever heard said about women in general were by women themselves. I've known a lot of women that just hate how their gender often behaves or what they get away with. It's fascinating, but more frustrating than anything.

So you're into the "traditional roles" thing?

 

[Zen Toombs]

Yupp. It was still pretty funny though. ^_^

It wasn't funny! I was blissfully ignorant of it until you pointed it out. Way to ruin my OP!

Good OP is still good, I just like to nitpick. ^_^

By the way, that curse can be a good thing in the right hands. Just sayin'.

You just keep walking into these.

We may be talking about different things. Actually, we probably are.

Probably, which is part of the point.
See, the curse is another word for vagina, and you said it can be a good thing in the right hands, and I'm just gonna stop explaining my joke now.

I mean, there's a lot of inequalities. There is no version of "******" or "Get back to the Kitchen" for straight white men.

Just sayin, that first word you used tends to be used just as frequently on straight white males. If anything, I've seen it's use on straight males be more overtly inflamatory.

 

[Icehearted]

Gender is irrelevant.

You couldn't be more wrong.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-06/justice/justice_rape-definition-revised_1_definition-oral-penetration-sexual-abuse?_s=PM:JUSTICE

http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/05/breast-cancer-receives-much-more-research-funding-publicity-than-prostate-cancer-despite-similar-number-of-victims/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html

http://ncfm.org/2009/01/issues/mens-reproductive-rights/

Seriously, I could do this for days. I also have a lot of personal anecdotal experiences, including women that have gotten away with rape and molestation because they were women (as stated by prosecuting attorneys and the office of the AG). Women regularly infantilize and commodify themselves, yet seem offended by being infantilized or commodified. The list just goes on and and on.

There's absolutely no such thing as broad gender neutrality, and in my opinion there should not be. As a heterosexual male, I prefer ladies that are ladies, not as asexual or genderless beings. There is a healthy give and take on both sides that many women I've known have admitted enjoying.

Which reminds me; most of the ugliest things I've ever heard said about women in general were by women themselves. I've known a lot of women that just hate how their gender often behaves or what they get away with. It's fascinating, but more frustrating than anything.

So you're into the "traditional roles" thing?

Yeah so ignoring most of my post and summarizing one very minute portion of it incorrectly doesn't go very far toward legitimizing your side here.

You just picked something I'd said and took it out of context. How do I reply to that? Like I am now? Okay then.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

See, the curse is another word for vagina, and you said it can be a good thing in the right hands, and I'm just gonna stop explaining my joke now.

I mean, there's a lot of inequalities. There is no version of "******" or "Get back to the Kitchen" for straight white men.

Just sayin, that first word you used tends to be used just as frequently on straight white males. If anything, I've seen it's use on straight males be more overtly inflamatory.

Oh. Yeah. We were totally talking about different things. Her derp.

Why is ****** actually offensive to anyone, anyway? I know what it means and being pansexual I cop it more than your average person probably, but why is it offensive to be called homosexual? Doesn't it make you, the person taking offense, the one with the problem, because you take issue with being called gay, as if it's a bad thing? I get that the person saying it is trying to offend you and it's considered a slur, but... why?

"******!"

-"Being gay is a bad thing?"

"Of course it is, ******!"

-"Not really, no."

/end of

 

[Kordie]

I'm a girl, and I've experienced both the sexism and sexism-less flavors of bullying. and I'd have to say that for whatever reason the sexism makes it feel worse. it's just being singled out and belittled in yet another way. as for the 'women don't need protection' bit....I'd say help never hurt. that's not to say every situation needs its own thread every time shit goes down, but it's nice when it happens to have someone else step in and say 'wow man, you're being a dick. back off.' can't speak for everyone, but if that's being a 'white knight' I could use the help. I'll definitely take it where I can get it.

The issue at hand here is not that "no one should to help you, or come to your defence". It's that the reason they do it should be because thats whats right and not because your a girl. If a person only defends women, thats a white knight complex, and that person should be helping everyone.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I respect women too much to respect them as women...

Woah... deep...

Gender is irrelevant.

You couldn't be more wrong.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-06/justice/justice_rape-definition-revised_1_definition-oral-penetration-sexual-abuse?_s=PM:JUSTICE

http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/05/breast-cancer-receives-much-more-research-funding-publicity-than-prostate-cancer-despite-similar-number-of-victims/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html

http://ncfm.org/2009/01/issues/mens-reproductive-rights/

Seriously, I could do this for days. I also have a lot of personal anecdotal experiences, including women that have gotten away with rape and molestation because they were women (as stated by prosecuting attorneys and the office of the AG). Women regularly infantilize and commodify themselves, yet seem offended by being infantilized or commodified. The list just goes on and and on.

There's absolutely no such thing as broad gender neutrality, and in my opinion there should not be. As a heterosexual male, I prefer ladies that are ladies, not as asexual or genderless beings. There is a healthy give and take on both sides that many women I've known have admitted enjoying.

Which reminds me; most of the ugliest things I've ever heard said about women in general were by women themselves. I've known a lot of women that just hate how their gender often behaves or what they get away with. It's fascinating, but more frustrating than anything.

So you're into the "traditional roles" thing?

Yeah so ignoring most of my post and summarizing one very minute portion of it incorrectly doesn't go very far toward legitimizing your side here.

You just picked something I'd said and took it out of context. How do I reply to that? Like I am now? Okay then.

That was actually a legitimate question and not an insult or anything. I was curious >_<

Bravo, OP, well spoken. Personally I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Why thank you!

And here I was thinking men call men faggots and when a girl joins the party the men all can't believe it and immediately try to see if this woman might let them catch a glimpse of her. Her being a mythical entity rarely seen by them.

If I wasn't a better person, I'd make a basement dweller joke here. But I won't... Just barely...

 

[Erana]

Women aren't babies.

Women don't need people to protect them.

Women don't need white knights.

Women don't need to be treated differently.

Women do need to be treated like a human being, not a gender.

It's no more wrong to call a woman a sexist slur than it is to call a man a dickhead.

Woah, woah woah, wait. You're demanding this of the people that aren't using language worthy of restraining orders? How about you raise your expectation of gamers?

Women's issues are a nice rallying point, and are a frequent point of discussion with the trash-talking in games in part because the motivations for doing so, the situations in which it happens and sort of harassment used are very clear and consistent. Any techniques or whatever used to stop sexual harassment in games should also help deal with general harassment. Women are a potentially powerful force for working against harassment in games because we're united under a much more consistent type of abuse. Its not like we're going to go collectively say "Hey, developers, its nice that you've stopped the sexism, but you better make sure we can still insult gays and minorities and anyone else other than us, 'cause man do I love making racist slurs and insinuating a guy's penis size correlates to his in-game failures!!!"

If you don't want to participate in working against online harassment, fine. But unless you actively object to trying to change the abusiveness of this culture,(as a whole, to everyone) is it too much trouble to ask you to just leave us be?

Also, "I do not want to be harassed for my gender" is not the same thing as, "I want to be protected by a white knight." Your implication there is a wee bit insulting.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Also, "I do not want to be harassed for my gender" is not the same thing as, "I want to be protected by a white knight." Your implication there is a wee bit insulting.

No, no, no. I was talking about the people who leap into action to save the damsel in distress, but couldn't care less about racism or some random guy being picked on by a group of trolls. If you see someone being a douchebag to a woman, by all means, tell them to shove their head up their ass, report them and recommend she mute him. But also do that for everyone else. I don't like this "reverse" sexism, where people feel the need to look out for women specifically any more than straight up sexism.

The message is: help everyone out, not because of their gender, but because helping people is the nice thing to do.

 

[Nemesis729]

I've been called names I didn't even know existed. My nickname for an entire round of TF2 was ****** after I lightly flirted with my boyfriend whom I was playing with.

While you certainly didn't deserve to be called such an offensive slur, or any name at all, because of your sexual orientation (I'm assuming you're a man, can't be sure) you really shouldn't be "flirting" on any level with a boyfriend/girlfriend over a public chat in game. It can be awkward for other people in the chat, similar to PDA in real social situations.

OT: I think you make some good points, though I don't think anything can really be done about, some men have a natural urge to defend a woman if they see them become subject to insults. Is this sexist? yes, But I don't really see it as much of a problem, The real problem at hand, I think, is men who still treat women like lesser beings. Eventually that may not be a problem, then would be the time to tackle men treating women to protectively.

That's just my two cents.

 

[Sectan]

It's nature for men to want to protect the "weak fragile women" from harm. I catch myself doing it when my guildies start taking crap from people in raids. Not saying it's right, but I've done it.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I agree with every last thing stated by the OP so far.

Except....

We all know the shitty reality of a *small* but very vocal aspect of the online world and we all deal with it.

And this is based on....?

Right. Just try not to appear a hypocrite next time.

Though I have met many more of such scum on the internet myself, too many to call it a small minority, and this is on the escapist especially.

Could you explain what you mean by hypocrisy? I don't see it.

I've been called names I didn't even know existed. My nickname for an entire round of TF2 was ****** after I lightly flirted with my boyfriend whom I was playing with.

While you certainly didn't deserve to be called such an offensive slur, or any name at all, because of your sexual orientation (I'm assuming you're a man, can't be sure) you really shouldn't be "flirting" on any level with a boyfriend/girlfriend over a public chat in game. It can be awkward for other people in the chat, similar to PDA in real social situations.

OT: I think you make some good points, though I don't think anything can really be done about, some men have a natural urge to defend a woman if they see them become subject to insults. Is this sexist? yes, But I don't really see it as much of a problem, The real problem at hand, I think, is men who still treat women like lesser beings. Eventually that may not be a problem, then would be the time to tackle men treating women to protectively.

That's just my two cents.

Don't worry, it wasn't anything close to gross, lol. It was basically "Oh you *****, you stole that kill form me." "You still love me." "Maaaaaybe." That might not be the exact words, but that's the idea.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

It's nature for men to want to protect the "weak fragile women" from harm. I catch myself doing it when my guildies start taking crap from people in raids. Not saying it's right, but I've done it.

You sexist pig!

I get what you mean. You probably haven't seen an earlier thread I was in (one I started) where I explained that I have this "urge" to comfort women in a lot of distress. It's a long story, but you get the idea.

That sort of thing is fine. I mean, what's the harm in helping people, yeah? The issue comes up when people only help women, not because it's nice, but because they're women. It's sexism, just not in the usual way.