WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf

[Salem_Wolf]

-Long, had to snip-

I understand were you're coming from, for most who haven't had it as hard this is kind of a big deal to them. Ya know? I had few friends growing up, most of my friends are on the internet so I understand how he feels so crushed his friends would leave as they supposedly did. If it's any consolation I'd have been friends with you and your close friend, and I'm sorry for your loss no matter how long ago it was. For him, though, it may be he has a social disorder than limits him from getting out, it's not uncommon, it's possible, but relax, friends leave it sucks, crying and moving on? Let him have a moment to say "well...fuck...", you've had a rough one, I get it, but no reason not to let him have a moment. Besides, he's turned this into something positive.

Yeah there ARE a lot of people hurting more than him, but when does the line get drawn when we stop caring about everything and only about the worst? You can't afford food? Hey at least you have a house for now, stop crying and get over it. You lost your job? Your parents will take you in, stop crying. See how it works? Yeah you might not see it the way I do, but if you go about saying "stop crying, get over it" to him, when does the line cross when you say "sorry your husband died, you got a place to live, stop crying"? I'm not trying to be a dick about it, honestly, but you seem to be taking this story seriously and personally, if your text is any indication.

And yeah, I forgot about MLG, but I don't think these guys were in any running to be in any competition. It sucks about your life, racism is a horrible thing it is, I have a few black friends and I'm white, I see them as friends, no less, some off-the-wall jokes are said but that's about it. Racism is there, but we're cool and see past it, and it works both ways we're kind of cool with it.

Now only two points I want to bring out specifically:

1)I don't care if he is disabled or not, rules are rules. And note it's not like he has a mental disability where he doesn't know right from wrong.

Yeah, he knows the rules but after 4 years in the guild you'd think a fair shake would be given, ya know? Give him a chance and I think the situation would have been avoided, coulda gone better.

2)If they were his friends they would have sided with him when he was kicked, they were not so they were not his friends.

No, they weren't his friends, but for 4 years he thought they were. I don't care who you are, that's a horrible blow to endure. After 4 years if my best friend sided with someone else, I don't care, I'd be crushed. Anyone who says they wouldn't be is
A) Lying
B) Doesn't feel they're a friend in the first place.

My two cents in response.

Edit: Uh...is the Escapist going down cause I keep getting 404s, twice so far. Hm.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Now yes, we dont know the kid said or did. But its the principle of the matter (to me at least). this is going to go down hill fast after this, but its the best way I can explain it because it actually happened to me. I'm Native American descent which means I'm darker then most. I, a black kid (my friend Cameron), and a large majority of white kids (most of whom are my friends), went out for a winter snow ball fight. Now, we had picked up a kid we did not know, but felt sorry for and wanted to include him in our festivities. When it came time to pick teams, he passed over both of us because and i quote him:
"they're not white. They'll be easy to spot against the white of the snow. Whoever picks them is going to have the same thing as two people with broken legs trying to win the 100 meter team dash."

So while no, we dont know what he said and he could be the one at fault, to me (and I cant stress enough that this is MY opinion and MY view on it and shouldnt be the views of everyone else), its unfair to design a guild with rules that exclude others with disabilities when you know they exist and you could potentially run into them. In the United States we had a civil rights movement and other movements for the disabled so this doesnt happen. Yes, WoW is an international game, but its been on the market for a while and is being put out by a company founded in the US.

And I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for you. Not in the way that, "oh he doesnt understand" but in the way of "its a shame he's been ostracized". Perhaps you didnt want to hear that, perhaps you dont believe it, but I do feel for you. Everyone at some point knows what its like to be ostracized, I do, you do, those to post before and after us, we all know. But we shouldnt make it the norm. We should say this is wrong. Maybe not destroy the guild, but impose a punishment of some kind. People need a lesson, an example to say "this is wrong, we will not tolerate it, nor will we tolerate other things that would be viewed as offensive." What sets this apart as morally acceptable but banning people or punishing them for putting a swastika in their gamer profiles arent just because we dont know both sides of the story? I dont remember anyone asking for that kid's side of the story. Maybe he wanted to honor a grandfather that died and he was a german soldier.

Finally, maybe this is people's lives, but that in and of itself is wrong. Yes, its wrong to judge like that, but its unnatural, unhealthy, and just plain odd to spend your life playing WoW or any other game that extensively. Boundaries have to be made between a TOY and a real life.

With that, I'll step down off my soap box and wait. Maybe the person you quoted didnt answer your call, but I tried as best I could for what they quoted me on that you quoted them for.

Wow, thanks. I should just quote this and be done. That was great, provocative, and quite a well-thought out response. Parallel to what I said, in many says. Thank you.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

My Thoughts: It's horrible what this person had to go through, I've been playing WoW on-and-off for about 5 years or so and to go through what he went through and THEN find himself kick/banned from his own guild, his friends, is horrible and I personally hope the guild leader is banned from WoW permanently, AT THE LEAST. What a terrible person the guild leader is.

Sucks to be him, doesn't mean it wasn't well within the rights of the guild leader or that he was even wrong in doing it. I imagine you've never played WoW or at least never raided. Communication without the use of Vent/TS is pretty much impossible.

Type text? Yeah, lemme see you paying attention to your surroundings, working your rotation flawlessly and then somehow still manage to type despite the fact that opening a chat box basically nullifies all your keybindings for the duration of you typing the message, let alone actually be able to write out a coherent sentence with your attention already severely taxed.

You're assuming, and wrong at that. I have been in raids and I haven't used Vent for it MUCH. Wrath of Lich King era raids, at that, if Cataclysm has become harder, then I wouldn't know, I haven't played for about six months but I've played WoW and done raids with only typing. It works. It's difficult, yeah, but it CAN be done, impossible? No. Macros exist for a reason, and raids before voice was mandatory have existed for a long time.

Now I did say I didn't use vent much, I have done it, yes it makes things easier, but is it impossible without? Not really.

WoW is serious business? SHOCKER! No really what a fuckin' shock!

Guildmates are not friends chump they're coworkers once you become a liability expect to be treated as such.

Really? I know guildmates who are my friends, even after I stopped playing and would accommodate for my lack of vent. So please don't presume to know everything about the game. Your experience =/= all.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

As a person in a hardcore raiding guild myself, I can relate to both sides of this conflict. On one hand, being kicked because you're deaf is absolutely not OK. It's not something the person can control, and it's borderline cruel.

On the other... you can't really function in a WoW raid if you can't use your hearing. I'm sorry, but you would be a liability in our raid. You can make all sorts of adjustments to your interface and add mods and such that help you out a lot, but nothing can replace live voice communication. It's the same in any competitive multiplayer scenario: voice chat is the single most important facet of team gaming.

 

[Dana22]

If the requirement is to be able to use vent, then well it wasn't place for him.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

As a person in a hardcore raiding guild myself, I can relate to both sides of this conflict. On one hand, being kicked because you're deaf is absolutely not OK. It's not something the person can control, and it's borderline cruel.

On the other... you can't really function in a WoW raid if you can't use your hearing. I'm sorry, but you would be a liability in our raid. You can make all sorts of adjustments to your interface and add mods and such that help you out a lot, but nothing can replace live voice communication. It's the same in any competitive multiplayer scenario: voice chat is the single most important facet of team gaming.

Agreed, but I still think they could have at least tried out a Raid before he was kicked to see how much of a hindrance he was going to be. I've done some Raids about, er, 6-7 months ago that I didn't use voice chat for and they went rather well. Things may have changed a lot since then, I wouldn't know haven't played since, but I too see both sides but it doesn't stop me from feeling fairly bad for the guy and thinking that this whole situation could have been avoided.

But as I said multiple times, I don't know the whole story, but it sucks, no matter how you spin it.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

I guess it sounds like those people are jerks. I don't really know what guilds do in World of Warcraft, though.

behave like utter cunts apparently. What a bunch of selfish pricks.

Don't think all of them act like that, I've been in plenty of awesome guilds and not everyone is a jerk, some of my best friends came from WoW.

 

[Jodah]

Eh, I see both sides. Many guilds require Ventrilo or Teamspeak in order to communicate. Him being deaf makes that impossible. It is up to the guild to decide what to do. They chose to kick him and find someone more able to abide by the guild rules.

That being said, I have been gaming with a deaf person for many years and he is one of the best players I know. We have been in several guilds together that require ventrilo but made an exception for him. Some guilds are simply more accommodating than others. Vent is a crutch for most guilds and they require it for that reason. Some will allow exceptions for good reason (such as being deaf) My current guild is one of the top 10 man guilds on my server and we do not use vent or teamspeak. It really just depends upon the guild. If the above mentioned person is a good player he will have no trouble finding a new guild.

 

[Indecipherable]

Some people play this game competitively. If you are running a 4x100m relay and one of your team becomes crippled or otherwise unable to run, guess what? Game over, someone else is in. When one person drags down the whole team then time to move on.

If you don't agree with that, don't be in a guild of this nature. Some people revel in success & their fun is measured in that way, and there are things that must be taken to ensure the success of the group as a whole.

As for the rest of it, a bunch of bleeding hearts on this forum crying foul about it. Don't be in a guild then if you don't like it. It's not a right, it's a priveledge.

I'd write more but it'd invite probation of some sort

 

[The Diseased Toe]

I think the saying: "It's a game" can be applied here to both parties.

Agreed, but it is horrible when someone goes through something like that.

I put the handlebar of my BMX through my leg, scraping past my main artery, in 2007. I almost died, and I suffered from depression for over two years.
I actually started playing WoW and even though I didn't make friends on it, I joined friendly guilds and I never even heard of "vent" which I presume is the chat function for headset users.

I guess when it comes to WoW players, some really do take it seriously, without thinking about how others feel.

 

[Arehexes]

You say this:

EDIT:One more thing, this topic isn't about you so stop projecting yourself in what happened to ignore the facts.

Yet in this post:

Snip

You do close to the same thing. Albeit, when you did it you didnt say that he was absolutely right.

Now yes, we dont know the kid said or did. But its the principle of the matter (to me at least). this is going to go down hill fast after this, but its the best way I can explain it because it actually happened to me. I'm Native American descent which means I'm darker then most. I, a black kid (my friend Cameron), and a large majority of white kids (most of whom are my friends), went out for a winter snow ball fight. Now, we had picked up a kid we did not know, but felt sorry for and wanted to include him in our festivities. When it came time to pick teams, he passed over both of us because and i quote him:
"they're not white. They'll be easy to spot against the white of the snow. Whoever picks them is going to have the same thing as two people with broken legs trying to win the 100 meter team dash."

So while no, we dont know what he said and he could be the one at fault, to me (and I cant stress enough that this is MY opinion and MY view on it and shouldnt be the views of everyone else), its unfair to design a guild with rules that exclude others with disabilities when you know they exist and you could potentially run into them. In the United States we had a civil rights movement and other movements for the disabled so this doesnt happen. Yes, WoW is an international game, but its been on the market for a while and is being put out by a company founded in the US.

And I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for you. Not in the way that, "oh he doesnt understand" but in the way of "its a shame he's been ostracized". Perhaps you didnt want to hear that, perhaps you dont believe it, but I do feel for you. Everyone at some point knows what its like to be ostracized, I do, you do, those to post before and after us, we all know. But we shouldnt make it the norm. We should say this is wrong. Maybe not destroy the guild, but impose a punishment of some kind. People need a lesson, an example to say "this is wrong, we will not tolerate it, nor will we tolerate other things that would be viewed as offensive." What sets this apart as morally acceptable but banning people or punishing them for putting a swastika in their gamer profiles arent just because we dont know both sides of the story? I dont remember anyone asking for that kid's side of the story. Maybe he wanted to honor a grandfather that died and he was a german soldier.

Finally, maybe this is people's lives, but that in and of itself is wrong. Yes, its wrong to judge like that, but its unnatural, unhealthy, and just plain odd to spend your life playing WoW or any other game that extensively. Boundaries have to be made between a TOY and a real life.

With that, I'll step down off my soap box and wait. Maybe the person you quoted didnt answer your call, but I tried as best I could for what they quoted me on that you quoted them for.

To be honest about the snow ball fight...he kinda has a point, if your going for camo the people who are darker then the snow is a bad thing since it's easy to spot(this is from a military logic). (my point of view)But that was rude because it's a snow ball fight with kids not military war games, but the difference is you guys picked up a kid you did not know if your quoting what I said about the friend thing. These were guys I was friends with for 9 years and they just stop talking to me because I'm black, or not one of "them".

And I don't care if you feel sorry or not for me, life taught me in the end all you have is family and mostly yourself to look after. Also the kid isn't unable to play games, what about people who can't stand the bright lights from video games and get sick we should make it easy for them to play not ostracized them because they can't stand the bright lights. You have that puppy eye ambition where no one is hurt, that won't happen. And I would love to see the Guild Master do something like "Your Deaf LOLZ you can't do shit your out of the guild bye loser" then you can start crap up. I don't see that, I just see a WoW addict crying he can't go on a raid (which is something a lot of hardcore guilds like to do), because he is deaf and the guild master doesn't want him.

But what about the other guilds, he mention he tried to go to other guilds but they wouldn't take him. Why not hate on them, they are just as bad by everyone's book. He is just whining he got kicked from a guild. I'm sorry he was hurt, but there are other guilds since WoW is the biggest MMORPG out there you mean he couldn't find one guild? But fine you guys can go "aw that sucks"

 

[Arehexes]

I agree with this, besides it's not like he said "Your deaf and we HATE deaf people" it was we can't work well enough using text chat cause we need fast picks.

Oh what rubbish. It's WoW; you go to a location and kill some monsters and then take their loot. What the fuck do you need voice chat for? It's a luxury. FFs if you don't know how to play the game by that point then voice chat won't help. The only time you'd need to send a message is when you want to nip to the toilet or something. This isn't the D Day Landings!

You must not meet people who see it more then that, for them they need voice chat to give info on the fly. I have a hell of a hard time looking for a game in left4dead cause I don't use a mic, and I get kicked(and that game tells you crap you need to know on it's own). And Playing a lot of MMOs if crap gets frantic typing doesn't help you get swarmed and you need to get healed.

 

[Arehexes]

It's their guild and they have their rules. If he wasn't helping the guild then he is gone.

Oh grow up ffs.

What that's life, can't help the well oiled machine you get replaced.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

But what about the other guilds, he mention he tried to go to other guilds but they wouldn't take him. Why not hate on them, they are just as bad by everyone's book. He is just whining he got kicked from a guild. I'm sorry he was hurt, but there are other guilds since WoW is the biggest MMORPG out there you mean he couldn't find one guild? But fine you guys can go "aw that sucks"

I think what makes it worse is they had been raiding together for 4 years. That's the major difference between a guild he tried to join and a guild he was in.

 

[Arehexes]

-Long, had to snip-

I understand were you're coming from, for most who haven't had it as hard this is kind of a big deal to them. Ya know? I had few friends growing up, most of my friends are on the internet so I understand how he feels so crushed his friends would leave as they supposedly did. If it's any consolation I'd have been friends with you and your close friend, and I'm sorry for your loss no matter how long ago it was. For him, though, it may be he has a social disorder than limits him from getting out, it's not uncommon, it's possible, but relax, friends leave it sucks, crying and moving on? Let him have a moment to say "well...fuck...", you've had a rough one, I get it, but no reason not to let him have a moment. Besides, he's turned this into something positive.

Yeah there ARE a lot of people hurting more than him, but when does the line get drawn when we stop caring about everything and only about the worst? You can't afford food? Hey at least you have a house for now, stop crying and get over it. You lost your job? Your parents will take you in, stop crying. See how it works? Yeah you might not see it the way I do, but if you go about saying "stop crying, get over it" to him, when does the line cross when you say "sorry your husband died, you got a place to live, stop crying"? I'm not trying to be a dick about it, honestly, but you seem to be taking this story seriously and personally, if your text is any indication.

And yeah, I forgot about MLG, but I don't think these guys were in any running to be in any competition. It sucks about your life, racism is a horrible thing it is, I have a few black friends and I'm white, I see them as friends, no less, some off-the-wall jokes are said but that's about it. Racism is there, but we're cool and see past it, and it works both ways we're kind of cool with it.

Now only two points I want to bring out specifically:

1)I don't care if he is disabled or not, rules are rules. And note it's not like he has a mental disability where he doesn't know right from wrong.

Yeah, he knows the rules but after 4 years in the guild you'd think a fair shake would be given, ya know? Give him a chance and I think the situation would have been avoided, coulda gone better.

2)If they were his friends they would have sided with him when he was kicked, they were not so they were not his friends.

No, they weren't his friends, but for 4 years he thought they were. I don't care who you are, that's a horrible blow to endure. After 4 years if my best friend sided with someone else, I don't care, I'd be crushed. Anyone who says they wouldn't be is
A) Lying
B) Doesn't feel they're a friend in the first place.

My two cents in response.

Edit: Uh...is the Escapist going down cause I keep getting 404s, twice so far. Hm.

Ok Deaf kid who got guild from one of the many guilds on the worlds biggest MMO is not a big deal as a homeless person.

Deaf kid can't play one game she he cries about it.

I'm sorry but "I can't pay for food" has more wight then "I am deaf and can't go raiding". At least he has a means to pay for the game, so excuse me if I don't cry for the poor kid, yeah it sucks he can't enjoy music (I might lose it without my music) he lost a whole thing to enjoy no more music. But a MMO, he can play one of the many MMOs out there, or a regular game.

And the Escapist is giving me problems to...

 

[Arehexes]

But what about the other guilds, he mention he tried to go to other guilds but they wouldn't take him. Why not hate on them, they are just as bad by everyone's book. He is just whining he got kicked from a guild. I'm sorry he was hurt, but there are other guilds since WoW is the biggest MMORPG out there you mean he couldn't find one guild? But fine you guys can go "aw that sucks"

I think what makes it worse is they had been raiding together for 4 years. That's the major difference between a guild he tried to join and a guild he was in.

But why was he kicked? It seemed he wasn't allowed to raid, he wasn't kicked till their little blow out. See I don't know which side to trust, to me it seems like a kid who felt like he should have his way cause he is deaf and didn't get his way.