You people are ridiculous
- Thread starter Phlakes
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Actually the sauce thing pisses me off to.Shoggoth2588 said:
Taco Bell doesn't care if I steal horde tons of packets of Hot Sauce
but try getting an extra 3 things of buffalo sauce from MickyDs? They won't budge even though I buy like 30 nuggets when I do.
I don't see how it would be impossible or impractical. Pretty sure there was no problems with Stolen Memory, maybe Kasumi was on the disk too, huh? I also don't see how "only" the character being there "proves" that the thing wasn't developed at the same time as the so-called "base game". You know, at the time where stuff was made on the development budget.Buretsu said:
If we're going for the "but it was a separate team developing it", fine, then why is the multiplayer included, as it was also developed by a separate team? Oh yeah. Online passes, that's why.
And I'm not even going into the burger analogy, because if the cheese obviously ready to be served at the time the customer ordered it, and if rest of the burger is three days old, I'm definitely not going to eat that crap. I want my entire burger, be it ham or cheese, fresh.
I don't object to the day 1 DLC per say, but the fact that it's so expensive irks me. Unless the DLC really has 1/6 of the content of the game (or more than that taking into account the reusable engine, battle mechanics, etc. that are factored into the original game's cost) it seems to me like it's just too expensive.
Does From Ashes have that much content in it? I'm legitimately asking as I haven't played either it or ME3 Proper.
Does From Ashes have that much content in it? I'm legitimately asking as I haven't played either it or ME3 Proper.
You do realise the point that the other bloke was trying desperately to get across to you is that the other developing departments (Animators/Designers/Sound Engineers/Writers/Scripters etc etc) have little to no programming/coding skill and are consequently not qualified to track down and fix bugs and glitches.TestECull said:
In your scenario, you presume that the entire team have a coding background, or are qualified QA testers. That is a enormous error on your part. Not only are you ignoring the fact that the different teams have completely different skills sets, most of which is not applicable to QA or bug hunting, you are also ignoring the fact that these Teams are usually apart of different studios under the Developer/Publisher, of which get paid a salary based on their studios contribution.
The reality is, if you were to get your way, and they focused all their qualified assets entirely on QA when the game reaches completetion, the vast majority of the working staff would be left idle, or squeezed into other projects (if available). Skilled Workers are not interchangeable between skill sets.
Pre-release DLC development is a way to keep a team of studios together in the gap between post production (where fewer teams/workers are needed), allowing for continuous use of all the different assets required in a games development. After all, these workers will still expect to be paid even if they haven't been given work (contracts) so making use of them on a project they have already applied themselves to is both efficient, and beneficial towards long term post release content (familiarity and comfort).
I can guarantee that the Day 1 DLC assets found on the disk to ME3 are only the Bulky Art and Sound assets for unique locations and characters, maybe some scripts too but with little to no functional coding. All the pieces but none of the glue or articulation. It was likely added out of convenience at the time.
Do I agree with the design philosophies and practices shown by large AAA publishers? No. But I also have self control. I chose not to play ME3 (and that includes pirating it) because of EAs required Origin service. DLC is, and has always been, optional. Protheans or no, I doubt it was integral to the experience, merely a bonus.
Probably not, but you don't need it either. Despite what others seem to think or claim, the DLC is not integral to the game, though it has a strong premise for those big into ME lore.Johnson McGee said:
You still get a fully fleshed out game with hours of gameplay and dialogue (if thats your thing). What you miss is probably something you would like to experience, but it's still a frilly bit (a lore heavy frilly bit).
McDonalds is a worldwide franchise, with multiple cultures accepting it even MORE-SO than the country it spawned from!Redlin5 said:
The more you know...
...
Anyway, DLC isn't necessarily a BAD thing, but to act like Bioware isn't slightly taking advantage of the system is kind of naive.
Americans have to pay extra for cheese? lol.
The issue with Day 1 DLC is where does it stop? what is classified as integral to the game? and what's stopping companies from lessening the importance of things they know people will buy seperately?
Using the burger analogy, it starts off having to pay extra for cheese, and pretty soon we'll have to pay extra for sauce, then onion etc. Soon a burger will just be a bun and some meat, hell we'll probably even have to pay for sesame seeds.
The issue with Day 1 DLC is where does it stop? what is classified as integral to the game? and what's stopping companies from lessening the importance of things they know people will buy seperately?
Using the burger analogy, it starts off having to pay extra for cheese, and pretty soon we'll have to pay extra for sauce, then onion etc. Soon a burger will just be a bun and some meat, hell we'll probably even have to pay for sesame seeds.
Rare to see a properly posted OP for EA. 8/10, the analogy let you down seeing as fast food is different from IT projects.
The day1 DLC would've been planned, not an afterthought. How many IT projects are under time? Nearly none, especially in the western world. Apart from that, nice to see escapist has some decent posters
The day1 DLC would've been planned, not an afterthought. How many IT projects are under time? Nearly none, especially in the western world. Apart from that, nice to see escapist has some decent posters
"PC Games Revenue Up 19%, $16.2 billion in revenue in 2010."
"PC game sales have risen globally by 15% year-over-year in 2011, reaching a record $18.6 billion."
DLC, day one or not, is a rip off, period. Piracy and used games have only positive effects on sales. This has been proven endlessly.
If a major gaming corporation tells you something, just assume its complete bullshit. Valve excluded.
"PC game sales have risen globally by 15% year-over-year in 2011, reaching a record $18.6 billion."
DLC, day one or not, is a rip off, period. Piracy and used games have only positive effects on sales. This has been proven endlessly.
If a major gaming corporation tells you something, just assume its complete bullshit. Valve excluded.
I've got no issue with day 1 DLC, I have an issue with paying $10 (The equivalent of 1 6th of the regular game), for a few bonus hours. Not that it really matters to me as I got the collectors edition anyway.
The OP is right--as if it isn't obvious or something.
That so many of you are angry about this shows how little you understand of game development.
That so many of you are angry about this shows how little you understand of game development.
It's a rip-off? Huh. That's odd. I could have sworn value for money was subjective.Magnicon said:
No analogies can work, because they can always be put in a different spin. In this case, you could say that McDonalds *used* to sell the burgers with cheese, and now they are charging you extra for it. Boom, your argument is invalid. So just give those up, besides the fast food industry and gaming industry are kinda far apart.
What the problem is, is that games are getting quite costly. This is to be expected, as the amount of people involved in the games nowadays has gone up astronomically. But when those people are used to getting a full, complete game, and then with the money made AT LAUNCH, make more informed decisions about how much to put into development of expansion packs and how much to charge for them, it seems to make a lot more sense to both parties.
It just looks like some games/franchises have such a cult following, that people who are going to buy it will buy it regardless, so they can do whatever shit they want to gain some extra, and everyone will buy it anyways. It has nothing to do with entitlement, it's simply getting away with what you can, because you can. Like the Microsoft monopoly, etc.
What the problem is, is that games are getting quite costly. This is to be expected, as the amount of people involved in the games nowadays has gone up astronomically. But when those people are used to getting a full, complete game, and then with the money made AT LAUNCH, make more informed decisions about how much to put into development of expansion packs and how much to charge for them, it seems to make a lot more sense to both parties.
It just looks like some games/franchises have such a cult following, that people who are going to buy it will buy it regardless, so they can do whatever shit they want to gain some extra, and everyone will buy it anyways. It has nothing to do with entitlement, it's simply getting away with what you can, because you can. Like the Microsoft monopoly, etc.
So... they "never set release days" but they are also "not afraid at all to delay the game"? Odd. How does one delay a game without having had a date to delay past in the first place?TestECull said:
Anywho-you musn't play TF2 much, 'cause every time they release content for it, they patch in fixes for it a few times over the next couple of weeks. Or are you just a Valve-can-do-no-wrong apologist? 'Cause they are cute.
Giving you the DLC isn't actually them losing it. They simply copy it to you. The cheese is gone for good.
The way I see it, a DVD for a movie these days costs about $20, and you get 2 hours entertainment out of it, if you're lucky. Movies have a lot that go into them - script writers, directors, actors, and a whole bunch of people behind the scenes making scenery, doing visual effects, recording sound, etc. etc. etc. That's a lot of people.
Compare that to a game like Mass Effect. You have the same script writers (except that they have to write 3 or 4 full scripts to take into account all the different options you can make (except when you get to the end )), you have the same directors, the same actors, and a lot of the behind the scenes people. In addition, you also have programmers, graphic artists, QA testers, and so on. That's a lot more people. And you get say 50 hours of entertainment from it. All that for $60.
So way more people, including a lot of people who make a lot of money that movies don't have (ie. programmers). Way more content. And just 3 times the price. Seems like a big deal to me. Especially when you consider that there are many other games out there which sell for the same $60 which don't have nearly the same entertainment value, or the amount of people working to produce it.
How can Bioware afford to do all that? Easy, they give us extras. Things like a DLC which is appealing enough to draw customers, but not critical to the story so people don't feel like they have to buy it to get the full experience. And if they happen to have it done on the same day as the game is released, great. So much the better. Things like a collector's edition which contains the afore mentioned DLC. Which if I'm going to pay $20 more than the standard game, I want to get something substantial for it. Like a DLC which contains a new side mission for instance. That seems fair.
Bioware and EA are businesses. They have employees that like to eat, and have roofs over their heads, and pay student loans, and crazy stuff like that. If those companies can't make enough to pay their employees, then they can't keep making games. But at the same token, they know that they can't sell their games at $100 each, or whatever. There are lots of people who complain at $60. So they sell us the game for a reasonably low price, comparatively speaking, and then offset that discount with added content which gives those that can afford it something extra without taking away anything from the core game for those who can't or who don't want to buy it. I'm really tired of this "I deserve whatever I want for absolutely free because I'm breathing and so that entitles me to anything I want" mentality that seems prevalent these days.
Compare that to a game like Mass Effect. You have the same script writers (except that they have to write 3 or 4 full scripts to take into account all the different options you can make (except when you get to the end
)), you have the same directors, the same actors, and a lot of the behind the scenes people. In addition, you also have programmers, graphic artists, QA testers, and so on. That's a lot more people. And you get say 50 hours of entertainment from it. All that for $60. So way more people, including a lot of people who make a lot of money that movies don't have (ie. programmers). Way more content. And just 3 times the price. Seems like a big deal to me. Especially when you consider that there are many other games out there which sell for the same $60 which don't have nearly the same entertainment value, or the amount of people working to produce it.
How can Bioware afford to do all that? Easy, they give us extras. Things like a DLC which is appealing enough to draw customers, but not critical to the story so people don't feel like they have to buy it to get the full experience. And if they happen to have it done on the same day as the game is released, great. So much the better. Things like a collector's edition which contains the afore mentioned DLC. Which if I'm going to pay $20 more than the standard game, I want to get something substantial for it. Like a DLC which contains a new side mission for instance. That seems fair.
Bioware and EA are businesses. They have employees that like to eat, and have roofs over their heads, and pay student loans, and crazy stuff like that. If those companies can't make enough to pay their employees, then they can't keep making games. But at the same token, they know that they can't sell their games at $100 each, or whatever. There are lots of people who complain at $60. So they sell us the game for a reasonably low price, comparatively speaking, and then offset that discount with added content which gives those that can afford it something extra without taking away anything from the core game for those who can't or who don't want to buy it. I'm really tired of this "I deserve whatever I want for absolutely free because I'm breathing and so that entitles me to anything I want" mentality that seems prevalent these days.
You're both right. Certainly tracking down and fixing bugs is the sole purview of QA/Development. No one else is going to be able to make heads or tails of the code, so no one else can fix it. However, those other departments can play through the game and make notes on things that aren't working right. In fact, having the developers doing their own testing is a bad idea. They know what it's supposed to do, and it's hard to get out of that mindset and into that of a player. Players do things that developers may not ever think of doing. So if you can get someone who doesn't know what it's supposed to do to test your game, you get a more accurate real world test.TestECull said: