You people are ridiculous

[way2sl0w]

-snip-

blah blah blah. You're all entitled twats, the mud on Bioware's boots taste awesome, blah blah blah...

Dear god, is this how I sound when I'm trying to defend COD?


Day 1 DLC is more like last week McDonald's only sold cheeseburgers for $2 and now they're selling "hamburgers" for $2 for "adding" cheese for $1 more. See the difference?

What's wrong with people telling McDonald's 'Cheeseburgers aren't worth $3 to me so I'll keep my money and arteries unclogged. If you decide to go back down to $2 we'll talk.'

Sure, Bioware/EA have to right to charge whatever dollar amount they want for any amount of content they want. That's capitalism. People are simply stating that they don't like Mass Effect enough to throw down $70 for the launch day package when it was $60 before. They SHOULD be entitled to tell the developer/publisher how much they're willing to pay for a product and let the free market decide where to go. That's capitalism too.

*spoiler*
(and no I did not buy the game yet. Until the total amount goes down to $60 I'm just going plug my ears and pretend that my Shepard died at the end of ME2 and consider ME3 to be non-canon)
*end spoiler*

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

It warms my heart that the first two replies didn't take this topic seriously at all.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

I've written quite a few posts on this subject tonight, so I'm afraid I'm going to serve you and your awesome avatar a bit of reheated copypasta. This is specifically referring to on-disc DLC:

Most people who criticize ME3 as a game and how Bioware did this and that are probably not in a position to do so, but people who are feeling abused by the way EA sells their products are perfectly within their rights to complain. They are complaining about how they are being treated as customers.

It is rather insulting of them to have content on the disc and blocked from use without purchase, and if they have the gall to start whining about people who change the scripts to unlock it then I hope the gaming community gives them an even larger piece of their mind in return. In any other industry that sort of thing would be absolutely ridiculous. You wouldn't see a car sold with leather seats, and a layer of cloth covering the leather that the dealer wants another $100 to remove. When you buy a car, you buy everything in it. And even if you were to buy a car like that, you sure as hell wouldn't waste your money on the dealer. You'd take it home and cut the cloth off yourself.

When you pay for disc-locked DLC, you are paying for something that was already on the disc and ready to go, just as those leather seats on the car were ready to go. Then they go through even more effort to fit and burn it onto the disc and hide and lock it, just so they can charge you more later. If it's on the disc, it's mine. If you paid extra to make it and you want more money for it, then don't put in on the disc I've already paid for. Any money lost is their fault, not ours. They were the ones stupid enough to put it on the disc.

And in regards to day-one DLC:

I have absolutely no problem with DLC, though the day one does not settle well with me. I see it as a difference in thought between producer and customer. The producer sees it as extra content they paid extra to make, so it's like a convenient and instantly available treat for us to buy. Customers see it as something they developed at the same time, and because of that it must be as important as the primary. If they are going to make DLC at the same time as the game, fine, but they should at least have the decency to wait a few months before releasing it so we don't feel as though we've been cheated out of something that was either developed alongside or was simply cut out of the main game. It's a matter of respect for your customer. If EA wants to screw us, they should at least be classy and make an effort to not make us aware we're being screwed.

And later I talked about how all companies do little unnecessary things to compensate their customers when they are feeling screwed, even when it is not the company's fault and it's unfair to blame them. Whether or not they actually are, the fact of the matter is customers feel screwed by day-one and on-disc DLC. And if these producers want to keep calm and carry on, then they have the right to do that. But the customer is always right, even when they are wrong. So any if there are negative repercussions that come from their failure to make amends for this difference in opinion, the way I see it, they've got nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's called "sampling" I believe. I'm not paying for the whole block and that's all that matters when their sales figures are concerned ^^

Unfortunately, they have new and better ways to tell whether you've been eating cheese these days, and can factor in "samples" much more readily years ago. This will tell them how much interest there is, and the rest will be blamed on piracy. Possibly large rats.

 

[Vegosiux]

It's called "sampling" I believe. I'm not paying for the whole block and that's all that matters when their sales figures are concerned ^^

Unfortunately, they have new and better ways to tell whether you've been eating cheese these days, and can factor in "samples" much more readily years ago. This will tell them how much interest there is, and the rest will be blamed on piracy. Possibly large rats.

Unless they have fingerprint scanners built into controllers, not really.

...and maybe I should stop giving them ideas.

 

[Sandytimeman]

I was reading in one thread the prothean shows up regardless of weither or not you buy the DLC and in another claiming he didn't show up at all in the game unless you bought the DLC. I'm not sure which is which but..I'm not cool with the character if he only shows up in the story if you bought the DLC. (cuz you know protheans are a fucking huge deal considering they went extinct 50,000 years ago!)

 

[Zayle79]

blah blah blah. You're all entitled twats, the mud on Bioware's boots taste awesome, blah blah blah...

Dear god, is this how I sound when I'm trying to defend COD?


Day 1 DLC is more like last week McDonald's only sold cheeseburgers for $2 and now they're selling "hamburgers" for $2 for "adding" cheese for $1 more. See the difference?

What's wrong with people telling McDonald's 'Cheeseburgers aren't worth $3 to me so I'll keep my money and arteries unclogged. If you decide to go back down to $2 we'll talk.'

Sure, Bioware/EA have to right to charge whatever dollar amount they want for any amount of content they want. That's capitalism. People are simply stating that they don't like Mass Effect enough to throw down $70 for the launch day package when it was $60 before. They SHOULD be entitled to tell the developer/publisher how much they're willing to pay for a product and let the free market decide where to go. That's capitalism too.

Evidence? Any at all? You're just not providing any. If it were the case that something were being removed from the main game and sold separately while the main game were being sold at full price, yeah, that would be dumb. Can you give any evidence to support this? According to the developers it was developed separately from the main game and detracted nothing from it. While their word is obviously biased, I have seen absolutely nothing at all that suggests otherwise.

If this keeps up, will developers will have to impose limits on themselves just to keep people from going insane? Hey devs, want to develop extra content after the game is done to sell for extra profit? Want to put really awesome stuff (i.e. a freaking Prothean) in the DLC so that lots of people will buy it for their first playthrough? You can't, because everything associated with the game made before the game's release has to be included with the game for free, and if it's too awesome then obviously it was ripped straight out of the main game because DLC can only be a little bit awesome. People on gaming forums said so.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

(it was a moment of weakness, I'm sorry)

That's what I say to myself everytime I go into one... on my weekly Sunday night Maccy D's run!

I like the analogy! Couldn't think of any way of explaining it better! People seem to seriously forget how much time, effort and resources go into making a game, just because the code created is soft copy, and can be mass produced, it doesn't mean that it should be so cheap or even free... especially as you most brilliantly point out... IT'S EXTRA!

 

[mirage202]

Day one DLC is a developer working overtime. Do you deny that? They do more than is required for the main game (and before someone goes off about "ZOMG EA RIPPED CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME TO SELL IT BACK AS DLC BECAUSE THEY HATE THEIR CUSTOMERS", no, they didn't, you're paranoid and the only soft evidence we have for that, on either side, is the devs themselves, and I'll take their word over a horde of angry gamers any day).

Mass Effect: ~50 hours.
Mass Effect 2: ~40 hours.
Mass Effect 3 (With From Ashes): ~30 hours.

We have, less game, less content, less control, less freedom, consistently from start to finish.
Yet we pay more each time.

I obviously cant speak for anyone else, but I personally consider it a farce that its now accepted to be paying full price for half a game, adding in *cough* "bonus content" (that, for many games these days, is magically offered as a pre-order bonus no less) for a little extra on the top, well, icing on the cake.

Anyone old enough will remember that once upon a time, consumers had rights. Problem being that the indifference and complacence of younger generations has allowed those to be eroded, and now we find ourselves taken for a ride at every turn, and expected to be grateful for it no less.

That for me is the biggest issue, and my biggest complaint. Wont apply to everyone, just as your own acceptance of it wont either.

 

[way2sl0w]

Evidence? Any at all? You're just not providing any. If it were the case that something were being removed from the main game and sold separately while the main game were being sold at full price, yeah, that would be dumb. Can you give any evidence to support this? According to the developers it was developed separately from the main game and detracted nothing from it. While their word is obviously biased, I have seen absolutely nothing at all that suggests otherwise.

If this keeps up, will developers will have to impose limits on themselves just to keep people from going insane? Hey devs, want to develop extra content after the game is done to sell for extra profit? Want to put really awesome stuff (i.e. a freaking Prothean) in the DLC so that lots of people will buy it for their first playthrough? You can't, because everything associated with the game made before the game's release has to be included with the game for free, and if it's too awesome then obviously it was ripped straight out of the main game because DLC can only be a little bit awesome. People on gaming forums said so.

No. Their potential customers said so.

It's part of the game that was developed before launch day. It's ON THE DISC! What more evidence do you need? T-shirts, Action figures, Art books, Special USB sticks count as extras because they're not part of the game. Any content that is remotely part of a GAME on launch day should be included in the $60 sticker price. Despite their whining, developers/publishers DO get rewarded for extra content: MORE COPIES OF THE GAME ARE SOLD!

 

[Crazy Zaul]

99c? That better be some dam good cheese!

 

[him over there]

Day one DLC is a developer working overtime. Do you deny that? They do more than is required for the main game (and before someone goes off about "ZOMG EA RIPPED CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME TO SELL IT BACK AS DLC BECAUSE THEY HATE THEIR CUSTOMERS", no, they didn't, you're paranoid and the only soft evidence we have for that, on either side, is the devs themselves, and I'll take their word over a horde of angry gamers any day).

Mass Effect: ~50 hours.
Mass Effect 2: ~40 hours.
Mass Effect 3 (With From Ashes): ~30 hours.

We have, less game, less content, less control, less freedom, consistently from start to finish.
Yet we pay more each time.

I obviously cant speak for anyone else, but I personally consider it a farce that its now accepted to be paying full price for half a game, adding in *cough* "bonus content" (that, for many games these days, is magically offered as a pre-order bonus no less) for a little extra on the top, well, icing on the cake.

Anyone old enough will remember that once upon a time, consumers had rights. Problem being that the indifference and complacence of younger generations has allowed those to be eroded, and now we find ourselves taken for a ride at every turn, and expected to be grateful for it no less.

That for me is the biggest issue, and my biggest complaint. Wont apply to everyone, just as your own acceptance of it wont either.

Oh those consumer rights are still there, after all consumers will always have all the power in a non essential industry. We just have to inform people that they have that. Whenever I hear someone say something along the lines of "This is highway robbery, unfair, exploitation" etc. I always make sure to tell them it's impossible to exploit the consumer. Maybe their loyalty or lack of willpower but the buyer can always go "Nope, you're selling on our terms. We aren't buying on yours."

 

[Zayle79]

No. Their potential customers said so.

It's part of the game that was developed before launch day. It's ON THE DISC! What more evidence do you need? T-shirts, Action figures, Art books, Special USB sticks count as extras because they're not part of the game. Any content that is remotely part of a GAME on launch day should be included in the $60 sticker price. Despite their whining, developers/publishers DO get rewarded for extra content: MORE COPIES OF THE GAME ARE SOLD!

The content was completed before the game went gold, but the people who develop content are not the same people who work on testing. They decide to make a little something extra while the QA guys are fixing up the main game and sell it separately. Is there anything wrong with that? Think of it as two separate products, one of which requires the other but the other stands on its own.

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I haven't yet played the game, but it's not like there's some invisible barrier you can get to that says "Buy From Ashes from the XBL Marketplace to unlock this area!" is it? It wasn't advertised as part of the game, was it? If you can play the game without it and never know that it's there, and you haven't been misled into thinking you get it with the game for free, then what makes it part of the game? Its presence on the disc?

 

[V8 Ninja]

The problem with your analogy is that the Mass Effect 3 DLC was already on the disc at the time of launch. A more correct analogy would be that you ordered the hamburger and then McDonalds told you that you couldn't eat the hamburger buns without giving them another dollar. True, the buns aren't generally to be considered "Part" of the main meal, but what restaurant in the world doesn't consider buns for hamburgers to be standard?

 

[Vegosiux]

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I haven't yet played the game, but it's not like there's some invisible barrier you can get to that says "Buy From Ashes from the XBL Marketplace to unlock this area!" is it? It wasn't advertised as part of the game, was it? If you can play the game without it and never know that it's there, and you haven't been misled into thinking you get it with the game for free, then what makes it part of the game? Its presence on the disc?

Well, that "It's optional anyway" argument is kind of...let's just say not well thought out. Because I don't want everything that's not directly a part of the main quest to end up as DLC in the future.

On a related note, I might have considered buying it if I could get a copy without the multiplayer component at a reduced price of course - or in other words, if the multiplayer was DLC content (redundant wording of redundancy and all) too and the "core game" was 10 bucks cheaper. Yeah, a dream I know.

Though the entire concept of DLC (as in, all DLC, not just the Day1 packs) carries a more subtle problem which I may try to start a discussion about sometime.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

When has McDonalds charged extra for cheese?

 

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