You people are ridiculous
- Thread starter Phlakes
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Lucem712 said:Rebuild me on Mars, we will need heroes!
Ewww, decaying body smells. Here, you have my ax
I have some very smart and informative things to say on this topic, I just can't be arsed to do so from my laptop when lying down in bed. So I have this to say instead; Cheese, mmmmmmm...
I don't like making assumptions, but your post implies you didn't get the sarcasm in the analogy.bojackx said:
What.TestECull said:
What.
What.
You understand that the people who draw the concept art are completely different from the people who create the basic wireframe polygons who are completely different from the people who mo-cap the animations who are completely different from the people who refine the animations who are completely different from the people who map the textures who are completely different from the people who create the particle effects who are completely different from those who modify and adapt the physics engine who are completely different from those who design the levels who are completely different from those who playtest for bugs?
Each and every one of these people either needs to be working on the current project, or the next project, or DLC. Please re-review the original post, particularly the difference between the first and third images. Just because there's problems with the textures or the physics engine doesn't mean the entire development team can just spend all their time fixing bugs. Individual specialists can deal with individual bugs that are within their specific expertise, but the team as a whole needs to be working on the next game unless they want to be doing a lot of sitting around all day for a few months.
It should be noted that EA said they worked on the day one DLC whilst waiting for certification...but that's a lie since only content on-disc can be certified and the "DLC" is on the disc.
So why is EA lying and trying to convince us it isn't? Because they're well aware that people aren't happy paying for something they already have. Why should we pay extra for something we already have?
It is like the McDonalds analogy. They take away part of the burger we order (like the cheese) and then try to convince us that it was always intended to be sold that way so we don't feel as stupid for paying extra for the cheese.
And honestly, any arguments about whether day-one DLC is okay or not goes completely out the window for me the moment EA is involved. They are douchebags, plain and simple. Nothing they make is done for fans to enjoy, it's always done for money, any enjoyment others get from it is purely coincidental. They are money-grabbing expoiting pricks and the reason why things like DLC get a bad rep. What to convince me that this day-one DLC is okay? First you'll need to convince me that it isn't an EA title, because "Morally acceptable" and "EA" are polar opposites.
So why is EA lying and trying to convince us it isn't? Because they're well aware that people aren't happy paying for something they already have. Why should we pay extra for something we already have?
It is like the McDonalds analogy. They take away part of the burger we order (like the cheese) and then try to convince us that it was always intended to be sold that way so we don't feel as stupid for paying extra for the cheese.
And honestly, any arguments about whether day-one DLC is okay or not goes completely out the window for me the moment EA is involved. They are douchebags, plain and simple. Nothing they make is done for fans to enjoy, it's always done for money, any enjoyment others get from it is purely coincidental. They are money-grabbing expoiting pricks and the reason why things like DLC get a bad rep. What to convince me that this day-one DLC is okay? First you'll need to convince me that it isn't an EA title, because "Morally acceptable" and "EA" are polar opposites.
Really, another mass effect thread? Glad to see this has kept fresh so long...By the way your McDonalds metaphor, if anything, goes against your argument. 99c for a slice of cheese for which the production and preparation of which (combined) costs the company a fraction of a cent extra to include on another burger? that's bad bussiness and should be frowned upon.Phlakes said:First of all, since this is a very important topic, yesterday I went to McDonald's (it was a moment of weakness, I'm sorry) and I ordered a burger. Then I asked about putting cheese on it. They said it costs an extra 99 cents. What. The. Fuck. To put something extra on my burger, I have to pay more? And the cheese was in the restaurant. I could see it in the kitchen from where I was standing. Sitting there, already made, and they want me to pay extra for them to just stick it on my burger? This is such shameless exploitation. McDonald's obviously hates all their customers and they're a plague on the restaurant society.
Second, please shut the fuck up about day one DLC. I think this is in order again-
Day one DLC is a developer working overtime. Do you deny that? They do more than is required for the main game (and before someone goes off about "ZOMG EA RIPPED CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME TO SELL IT BACK AS DLC BECAUSE THEY HATE THEIR CUSTOMERS", no, they didn't, you're paranoid and the only soft evidence we have for that, on either side, is the devs themselves, and I'll take their word over a horde of angry gamers any day).
I'll repeat that because that parenthetical went really long. They do more than is required for the main game. And what do you say to them? "No, give it to us for free because it's already done." No. Fucking no. Listen to yourselves. You sound like children. Once production is winding down, the production team works on more content, and you're telling them that they're exploiting you by wanting to be paid for it.
Again, you people are ridiculous. I kept myself neutral when day one DLC was first becoming an issue, but the sides are becoming very, very clear, and the people complaining are some of the most selfish, entitled, and hateful people on the internet right now.
Now feel free to reinforce that last point against me.
EDIT: Also, sorry about putting this in Off-Topic, it started as just the first paragraph (which fit a bit more in here) and I forgot to move it over once everything else was down.
So, really, by your logic of day DLC is fine because it's "overtime" and for some reason this entitles publishers to cash in on the devs hard work, gamers should really be paying extra for all the bug fixes in skyrim, since they are (blatantly) working ridiculous(overtime) hours to get their shit together. Presumably that's not the only aspect of skyrim that required overtime to get running, no doubt there were included quest lines that managment did not want cut and so devs were required to put in extra hours so they could be included...funny how those quests weren't included as payed day one DLC.
You know what? Devs working hard has little impact on whether or not overtime is needed to included content (content that was always intended to be made and released) in the game. If overtime is required, that has nothing to do with day one DLC and everything to do with management either setting overambitious goals or tying up resources in unnecessary areas. It isn't even the call of the developers to include DLC content in the core game or charge extra, it's the publishers (those same bastards that put up the cash for development and distribute the game!) who have the ultimate call.
Gamers are not always pissed off at sometimes having to pay extra for "extra" content, they are pissed that whoever was in charge of game development allowed a game to be created that was deliberately less awesome than it could be. Compare a videogame to a car, if you're buying an exotic sports car, you're going to be pretty chirped if you find out that the engineers deliberately and knowingly designed the car below it's full potential so that they could later release a "sports pack" for it. That's not ok, if you're going to make something, be it a car, videogame or pair of shoes, make it as good as you can utilising all your resources....being able to manage time so that you keep people on during a "development cycle" that doesn't apply to them is irrelevent, if it's within budget to develop for the game and can be shipped with the disc then it should be.
OP's point is a "flawless victory" argument imho. Even if the DLC is already on the disk I would imagine it still needs patching. Even when I have heard of on-disk DLC for games I own I have always needed to download enough content to make me realise that the on-disk version is most likely not the completed DLC product and they were always planning to develop it up to a playable standard on day one.
Devs do exactly what I would in the same situation. Develop game, use resources as they free up to develop extra content, add the "not quite there" extra content to the final build when it goes gold, continue developing extra content up to release day, make patch for extra content available on release day.
It reduces download sizes and speeds up DLC delivery.
Devs do exactly what I would in the same situation. Develop game, use resources as they free up to develop extra content, add the "not quite there" extra content to the final build when it goes gold, continue developing extra content up to release day, make patch for extra content available on release day.
It reduces download sizes and speeds up DLC delivery.
i havent heard anyone talk about this for weeks. sometimes people will comment on older threads made about this but it seems to me like the only person still talking about this is you. is it a shitty thing for the company to do? yes. do i care enough to boycott the game? no. the only problem i had with the day 1 dlc was that it seemed like it was significant to the story. since it is not, i dont give a fuck. so please stop bringing this topic up. your idea of getting people to stop talking about this by talking about it, is stupid. let the topic die. some people will boycott the game, who gives a damn. the controversy will burn itself out eventually
What if they put the cheese in the burger, but told you that you weren't allowed to eat it?
Day one DLC is fair enough, to an extent. I can understand people being pissed off about it, but those people should choose not to buy the game if it annoys them so much.
But as far as I'm concerned, if I pay for a disk, I will do with it what I damn well please. If there is content on that disk that I cannot access, then I will alter the game files and allow myself access.
Day one DLC is fair enough, to an extent. I can understand people being pissed off about it, but those people should choose not to buy the game if it annoys them so much.
But as far as I'm concerned, if I pay for a disk, I will do with it what I damn well please. If there is content on that disk that I cannot access, then I will alter the game files and allow myself access.
Except I ordered a cheeseburger, and the cheese that was advertised wasn't there. Instead the cheese on my cheeseburger was cut from the entire thing and sold to me as "extra".Phlakes said:First of all, since this is a very important topic, yesterday I went to McDonald's (it was a moment of weakness, I'm sorry) and I ordered a burger. Then I asked about putting cheese on it. They said it costs an extra 99 cents. What. The. Fuck. To put something extra on my burger, I have to pay more? And the cheese was in the restaurant. I could see it in the kitchen from where I was standing. Sitting there, already made, and they want me to pay extra for them to just stick it on my burger? This is such shameless exploitation. McDonald's obviously hates all their customers and they're a plague on the restaurant society.
Second, please shut the fuck up about day one DLC. I think this is in order again-
Day one DLC is a developer working overtime. Do you deny that? They do more than is required for the main game (and before someone goes off about "ZOMG EA RIPPED CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME TO SELL IT BACK AS DLC BECAUSE THEY HATE THEIR CUSTOMERS", no, they didn't, you're paranoid and the only soft evidence we have for that, on either side, is the devs themselves, and I'll take their word over a horde of angry gamers any day).
I'll repeat that because that parenthetical went really long. They do more than is required for the main game. And what do you say to them? "No, give it to us for free because it's already done." No. Fucking no. Listen to yourselves. You sound like children. Once production is winding down, the production team works on more content, and you're telling them that they're exploiting you by wanting to be paid for it.
Again, you people are ridiculous. I kept myself neutral when day one DLC was first becoming an issue, but the sides are becoming very, very clear, and the people complaining are some of the most selfish, entitled, and hateful people on the internet right now.
Now feel free to reinforce that last point against me.
EDIT: Also, sorry about putting this in Off-Topic, it started as just the first paragraph (which fit a bit more in here) and I forgot to move it over once everything else was down.
Oh my. The hypocrisy of late on the forum. Let's take a look at a similar (paraphrased) discussion from a thread some time ago:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Old topic - On-disc Day 1 DLC for some random game
Random Forum Poster - "Wait...I have to pay an extra 10 to 15 bucks for stuff that's on the disc I already paid for? What's this bullshit?"
Die-hard Bioware Fan - "I know, right?! It is bullshit! This developer hates it's player base. They just want to rip off the gamers! There's no legitimate reason for this DLC to be on the disc. That's not how DLC works. This company clearly just can't make a good game. You're an idiot for buying this game."
Random Forum Poster - "Uh....what?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Current topic - On-disc Day 1 DLC for Mass Effect 3
Random Forum Poster - "Wait...I have to pay an extra 10 to 15 bucks for stuff that's on the disc I already paid for? What's this bullshit?"
Die-hard Bioware Fan - "Shut up! It's brilliant! Bioware loves it's player base! On-disc Day 1 DLC is completely legitimate! You just don't get how DLC is made! Bioware says so! You're just an idiot."
Random Forum Poster - "Um....what?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it the very worst members of a particular gaming community are always the ones who speak the loudest and inevitably become the face of said group? It's disgusting at this point. So much so that I actually dread big-name game releases. Not to mention, if someone says they're a fan of something; a game, developer, what-have-you; they are often immediately pegged as a "fanboy" and berated to no end.
No, scratch that. Even if a game's been out for years, (let's say 8+. hypothetical example.) the vocal minority will STILL spam the forum with threads; weekly; on how much they hate the game. It's becoming really hard to want to come to this forum anymore.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Old topic - On-disc Day 1 DLC for some random game
Random Forum Poster - "Wait...I have to pay an extra 10 to 15 bucks for stuff that's on the disc I already paid for? What's this bullshit?"
Die-hard Bioware Fan - "I know, right?! It is bullshit! This developer hates it's player base. They just want to rip off the gamers! There's no legitimate reason for this DLC to be on the disc. That's not how DLC works. This company clearly just can't make a good game. You're an idiot for buying this game."
Random Forum Poster - "Uh....what?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Current topic - On-disc Day 1 DLC for Mass Effect 3
Random Forum Poster - "Wait...I have to pay an extra 10 to 15 bucks for stuff that's on the disc I already paid for? What's this bullshit?"
Die-hard Bioware Fan - "Shut up! It's brilliant! Bioware loves it's player base! On-disc Day 1 DLC is completely legitimate! You just don't get how DLC is made! Bioware says so! You're just an idiot."
Random Forum Poster - "Um....what?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it the very worst members of a particular gaming community are always the ones who speak the loudest and inevitably become the face of said group? It's disgusting at this point. So much so that I actually dread big-name game releases. Not to mention, if someone says they're a fan of something; a game, developer, what-have-you; they are often immediately pegged as a "fanboy" and berated to no end.
No, scratch that. Even if a game's been out for years, (let's say 8+. hypothetical example.) the vocal minority will STILL spam the forum with threads; weekly; on how much they hate the game. It's becoming really hard to want to come to this forum anymore.
Did your burger cost $65?Phlakes said:
You may have a point, but how do you know we aren't being gouged by EA?
My friend played the Tiger Woods Masters edition, I'm not big into golf so I can't be bothered to know the full title, but he said, in order to complete a season, you had to buy DLC courses that were included in previous versions. It seems pretty obvious to me that EA took out courses they already had the assets to, in order to charge more money for them.
EA is ridiculous, I wouldn't say fan outrage is necessarily unreasonable. I'm boycotting the company, which is usually easy cause I don't want to play their games anyway.
I mighta given in and just bought ME3 anyway if they didn't require me to install Origin on my PC. Screw that.
But hey, at least you didn't spell it "rediculous" For that I give you 1 star.