Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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Arkitext

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I came to this same conclusion after years of playing EVE, and then eventually trying to start up my own Player Corporation.

Basically, I got something which was akin to (read: identical to) MMO Addiction, and had to give them up all together because I was suddenly placing recruiting idiots higher than entering into the "kissing ladies" prize draw at my local social gatherings.

Plus, it's really, really, really, really BORING like you wouldn't believe, but brain-washed addicts (read: ultror-nerdzards) like myself can tolerate for hours on end.

You can spend entire play-sessions docked in a station and not be motivated at all to leave.
 

Arkitext

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Tranka Verrane post=6.70442.695088 said:
Wow there's a lot of posts on this one already. Sorry but I'm not gonna read 11 pages of 'Eve sucks' 'No it doesn't' 'Yes it does'. Since I have an Eve blog, however, here is my review of the review. I apologise in advance for raking over old ground, if that is what it does:

Despite not owning a console I watch the reviews by ZP each week (in much the same way as I watch Top Gear despite not having a car) and was suprised and delighted this week to find that he was reviewing my dear favourite Eve.

In the way of such things I should offer a riposte to the review as a hardcore fan:

Right at the outset ZP states he isn't going to have anything to do with corporations. Well, OK. That being, kind of, uh, the point of Eve, you may as well stop here. That's like stating you're going to review WOW but you don't want to have anything to do with any of that magic palaver.

Cue lots of jokes about overweight bespectacled smelly whiny nerds. Erm. I don't think I fall into any of those categories, but the only other person I know in the real world who plays Eve does, so it makes me wonder... Well, he isn't whiny, but I kind of am at times, so I guess we make a set.

Bored, bored, bored, eyestrain. As a summary of Eve it leaves out a lot, but I can accept it. I certainly find myself bored a lot, and were it not for the fact of the timebased training system I would probbaly have quit. However that means you hang in there waiting for some interesting expansion that is always just around the corner because then you will be so much more uber than the newbies who have just been pulled in, haha. Fortunately usually you end up making something interesting to do yourself, this being a sandbox, and you having the benefit of YOUR CORPORATION.

Then there is the 'I don't understand it so it's rubbish' argument. Er, no. I don't think I even need to point out the flaw in this one.

Zp next complains that battles are of the 'fight till you look like you're going to lose then try to run away' variety. Erm. Isn't that true of all battles? Not just in gaming, but in the real world too. That's rather like complaining that when you played this game you still needed oxygen.

The training system; yes, it isn't perfect. I would like something that increased with how much you played the game. Oh wait a minute, there is. The more you play the game the more you understand it, something that isn't necessary in WOW and the like because you understand them after about three hours. Plus you get money and better social standing with NPC's, which pays off in its own ways too.

'Missions are all just variations on go here and shoot things'. Well, yes. I'll give you that one. I would like to see more complexity in missions but as they are just one of the million things you can do and mainly aimed at casual players it doesn't really concern me too much.

Ultimately I think you missed the point of Eve, ZP, because you failed to understand what a corporation is. If you think that it means you get given a cubicle and are told to sort beans till we get back to you you are imposing wow-like grind onto the terminology of Eve and making two plus two equal 3.

I hate this particular piece of terminology, but there is an apt two-word summary for this review.

ZP: Epic Fail.
You: Epic Bias.
 

The Sorrow

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Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.
 

CeilingNinja

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Feb 20, 2008
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I found exactly what Yatzhee found wrong with Eve. It's slow, it's boring, without joining a corp or PvPing against people weaker than you there's nothing to it except 'go to this asteroid, kill these guys, wait three months for your skills to increase.'

A 14-day free trial is supposed to bring you into the game. It's supposed to make you excited to play the game, and THEN spring the - 'oh, you really should join a PvP guild or you'll find this incredibly boring.' Eve failed to drag me into it at all.

Immersion - that big happy word - is more important for an MMO than for any other type of game. If you don't feel like you're part of the world, part of the game, you're not going to want to play. Immersion and user-friendliness are both important, and Eve fails on both parts of this.
 

Pandy

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I really like EVE. I think to really get the most of it you need to get a subscription account to unlock the rest of the ships and spend a couple of weeks building up a character. Then you'll be reasonably ready for some PvP fights, which are more exciting because you're risking losing things you spent a couple of weeks working for.

And yes, it's incredibly boring, just like World Of Warcraft, Halo, Monopoly, Chess and every other game that's been invented, ever since mankind discovered boredom and the need to alleviate it.
 

Tranka Verrane

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Arkitext post=6.70442.695119 said:
You: Epic Bias.
OMG I can't believe you quoted my entire post to add that, without any kind of justification or explanation of what you meant.

Eve has flaws. Many, many flaws. I would have been entertained by a thoughtful dissection of them. ZP's review failed to cover any of them and just repeated a series of very fatuous observations and showed he had missed the entire point of the game. As this is the game he has reviewed that I know best it makes me doubt everything else he has ever said. Maybe Super Smash Bros Brawl is the greatest game ever made. Maybe Prince of Persia sucks.
 

bigwillystyles

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The Sorrow post=6.70442.695146 said:
Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.
So buy a fucking wii if you can't handle a bit of virtual economics or strategy in your games. Some people can find fun in more complex games.

Anyone who defends this as a serious review when it doesn't even give the game a proper look is a moron.
 

vlanitak

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Sep 4, 2008
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Yahtzee you are right again.

To all the people ho play EVE: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE! you actually have to click somewhere in space to get where you want!

If there is any real spacesim multiplayer game that is actually worth anything it's Freelancer.
It has: A decent controll system, lots of space, you can do whatever you want (it's the spacesims answer to GTA), you have a reputation(friend with one faction might mean anotherone gets angry at you), you have lots of cool weapons/spaceships/stations. And most importantly the community is better than in any other game I have ever tried!

If you like EVE then I can promise you you will LOVE Freelancer, if you do not LOVE it feel free ot drop by my house kick me in the gnads and force me to eat the entire house of which I live in.
 

sapient

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Jan 23, 2008
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I can't say I disagree with Yahtzee with this, but I found this review painfully samey. I'm getting pretty bored with the semi valid point -> partly shocking analogy -> move on to the next point formula.

Give me something new.
 

agerdemon

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Feb 14, 2008
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I don't have Eve online so I cannot comment on that. However I have played MMO's in my time and have noticed all of them have the ability to make time fly and also you get addicted. Whether this is a good thing or not I don't know but I do feel I could have spent my time more wisely after playing.
 

nastykerm

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The Sorrow post=6.70442.695146 said:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.

I played call of duty for about 5 minutes, running around at some indoor training ground wtf boring as hell piece of shit game.


Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.
I expect games to be fun the instant I power up my console/computer. If not its not fun.




I hope you see the error of your opinion.
 

nastykerm

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vlanitak post=6.70442.695228 said:
Yahtzee you are right again.

To all the people ho play EVE: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE! you actually have to click somewhere in space to get where you want!

If there is any real spacesim multiplayer game that is actually worth anything it's Freelancer.
It has: A decent controll system, lots of space, you can do whatever you want (it's the spacesims answer to GTA), you have a reputation(friend with one faction might mean anotherone gets angry at you), you have lots of cool weapons/spaceships/stations. And most importantly the community is better than in any other game I have ever tried!

If you like EVE then I can promise you you will LOVE Freelancer, if you do not LOVE it feel free ot drop by my house kick me in the gnads and force me to eat the entire house of which I live in.
EVE isnt freelancer, nor does it try to be. EVE is more like a space version of command&conquer rather a combat flight sim.

It's really frustrating to read peoples opinion of EVE when they dont even know what type of game it is.
 

Wargamer

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bigwillystyles post=6.70442.695203 said:
The Sorrow post=6.70442.695146 said:
Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.
So buy a fucking wii if you can't handle a bit of virtual economics or strategy in your games. Some people can find fun in more complex games.

Anyone who defends this as a serious review when it doesn't even give the game a proper look is a moron.
Or maybe they all have a point. Concepts such as "realism" are really great and all, but I don't think I'd want to play a Call of Duty game where you have to deal with "real" military issues, such as paying your troops a monthly wage, paying their benefits, dealing with the press you're getting at home about how your invasion of Iraq is unjustified etcetera etcetera.

EVE does not sound fun. EVE sounds like more work than my fucking job!
 

Odjin

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Great how nerds can close their heads of to not read. So let's put it simple in a few sentences so nobody can complain:

1) Games are not for socializing. If you need that you are either a big emo or have no life. Games are for fun, tickling, mind challenging or just giving you a great time. If you need there a socializing system to get friends... then you utterly failed at life :D

2) Tactics and strategy is if both sides have equal abilities and resources and using them clever cuts the deal. 100 versus 1 is NOT strategy NOR tactics it's just fucking GB ( Gang-Banging ) and is called a loosers battle. MMOs are full of such loosers

3) A demo is here to show you how good a game is. If it fails to do so after 14 days the entire game fails. Also if a game requires half a year to get to the good bits it fails too. And if you are mostly watching the CPU play for you the game fails too.

Shorter than that is not possible.
 

Brett Alex

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bigwillystyles post=6.70442.695203 said:
The Sorrow post=6.70442.695146 said:
Here's the funny part: there are so many people trying to tell me that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread and bashing Yahtzee for not liking it. Here's my two cents:
One plays games to have fun.
Yahtzee played the game and didn't have fun.
Alright? We clear?
We play games to have fun.
Not to run a business.
So buy a fucking wii if you can't handle a bit of virtual economics or strategy in your games. Some people can find fun in more complex games.
Anyone who defends this as a serious review when it doesn't even give the game a proper look is a moron.
Or, he could y'know... not. Instead, he could stick by his opinion and not enjoy the game. And all clever rebuttals you come up with about someone being a casual gamer won't change that. I used/kind of still do/hoping to break an addiction to WoW, but I have friends who hate it. I know that no matter how many times I tell them how fun winning Arathi Basin is, it won't make them suddenly see the error of the ways, take out a subscription, make a Troll Priest and join me on Lumber Mill defense.

So yes, some people can handle "virtual economics or strategy in your games" and "Some people can find fun in more complex games", some people however can't, and do enjoy the Wii, or Halo, or CoD4. Because someone doesn't find EVE as fun as you doesn't make them a lesser person, and because you enjoy EVE, it doesn't make you a lesser person.
 

nastykerm

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Wargamer post=6.70442.695309 said:
EVE does not sound fun. EVE sounds like more work than my fucking job!
What is sounds like, and what it is, are two completely different things. I think champagne sounds crap, but I know it tastes great.
 

nastykerm

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Odjin post=6.70442.695328 said:
Great how nerds can close their heads of to not read. So let's put it simple in a few sentences so nobody can complain:

Oh snap! A person on an internet forum dedicated to gaming called me a nerd. I'll never get laid now :(
 

Vitalix

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Sep 27, 2007
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Ben has developed a habit of sacrificing content for scathing commentary. While much of his review focused on EVE specifically, the large part was simply a critique of characteristics to MMORPG's generally. That's not particularly helpful. MMORPGs, like all video games, assume that gamers appreciate and enjoy certain activities. That includes leveling up, killing monsters, and suspending disbelief.

Imagine if a reviewer said, "Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Portal, and Half-Life 2 all suck. All of these games are just a bunch of console clicking mass of pictures and sounds. You just stare at a screen for hours. None of it is real. The Combine are fake. Master Chief is fake. Why would you waste your time pretending to be something that does not exist? Thus, all of these games are crap."

It's a critique sure, but not really a good one. Games and certain gaming genres have basic characteristics to them. FPSs have guns, etc. Attack those in a game, and you are not really critiquing the game but the genre, which is not a terribly useful review.

Ben knows better. His earlier reviews show it.
 

Pandy

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Vitalix post=6.70442.695345 said:
Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Portal, and Half-Life 2 all suck. All of these games are just a bunch of console clicking mass of pictures and sounds. You just stare at a screen for hours. None of it is real. The Combine are fake. Master Chief is fake. Why would you waste your time pretending to be something that does not exist? Thus, all of these games are crap.
Damn straight.
 

Sir_Substance

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Jul 19, 2008
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vlanitak post=6.70442.695228 said:
Yahtzee you are right again.
If you like EVE then I can promise you you will LOVE Freelancer, if you do not LOVE it feel free ot drop by my house kick me in the gnads and force me to eat the entire house of which I live in.
sweet, give me your address and then you'd better wander out and get a box and a huge spoon, because in my opinion freelancer sucked. X3 was superior in every aspect.