Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

[PegasusJF]

Yahtzee you are right again.

To all the people ho play EVE: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE! you actually have to click somewhere in space to get where you want!

If there is any real spacesim multiplayer game that is actually worth anything it's Freelancer.
It has: A decent controll system, lots of space, you can do whatever you want (it's the spacesims answer to GTA), you have a reputation(friend with one faction might mean anotherone gets angry at you), you have lots of cool weapons/spaceships/stations. And most importantly the community is better than in any other game I have ever tried!

If you like EVE then I can promise you you will LOVE Freelancer, if you do not LOVE it feel free ot drop by my house kick me in the gnads and force me to eat the entire house of which I live in.

I've played both, they're different games, enjoyable for their own qualities. Keep in mind sir that in EVE Online you're not flying fighters, your flying what in Freelancer terms are the battleships and cruisers. It's a cap ship simulator, and I think you can agree with me that ships of that size can't be worked with a joystick.

You can argue that EVE should have went a different route, that's fine. You're free to love or hate the game, just please give it a chance first.

 

[Therumancer]

I was kind of surprised that Yahtzee missed one of the central, and highly insultable, points of EVE so entirely. EVE is a game that removes most of the player abillity from gaining power. Enduring Grinds, doing dungeons, raiding, PVP, none of that increases your abillity. The only thing that matters is the amount of real time you put into the game since the passage of time is what raises your skills. The huge number of skills present on first analysis seems like the game is presenting a highly advanced RPG enviroment with a lot of options for micromanaging things. This isn't really true. They kept adding more skills and such to the game as people spent enough time to max out what was there. The idea being to give the long time players something to advance in.

EVE is based around the idea that the longest-term players are the most powerful, and by definition newer players/corps no matter how skilled simply cannot catch up to them. An important point when you consider the Free-for all nature of PVP.

Also if Yahtzee didn't like the combat, thankfully he missed the point that the most efficient way to start is doing things like mining astroids in high security sectors where being attacked by other players isn't as much of a factor.

*THAT* said, I myself would like to see a good Science Fiction MMORPG where you can do stuff both on the ground and in space. However to do this right would ultimatly involving developing 2 MMORPGs (differant engines) and then selling them for one price/membership fee. This is why people haven't spent much time trying to do it. So far the only attempt was Star Wars Galaxies, their space supplement being an X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter twitch game that didn't fit in with the rest of the RPG experience.

Honestly if someone was to Adapt EVE to work on an exps system where you earned Exps by doing things rather than the passage of real time, and then combine it with say an adapted Anarchy Online for ground/planet based action you would see the ultimate Science Fiction MMORPG. Alas noone wants to develop more than one engine/world for a single game at the moment so we're unlikely to see it.

At any rate Yahtzee did surprise me, I expected comments about him being a Space Miner and how boring it was to truck rocks back to a base to sell. It ruins my plan to start referring to him as 'Crusher' Ben given his love of Anime.

>>>----Therumancer--->

 

[lord667]

I was kind of surprised that Yahtzee missed one of the central, and highly insultable, points of EVE so entirely. EVE is a game that removes most of the player abillity from gaining power. Enduring Grinds, doing dungeons, raiding, PVP, none of that increases your abillity. The only thing that matters is the amount of real time you put into the game since the passage of time is what raises your skills. The huge number of skills present on first analysis seems like the game is presenting a highly advanced RPG enviroment with a lot of options for micromanaging things. This isn't really true. They kept adding more skills and such to the game as people spent enough time to max out what was there. The idea being to give the long time players something to advance in.

EVE is based around the idea that the longest-term players are the most powerful, and by definition newer players/corps no matter how skilled simply cannot catch up to them. An important point when you consider the Free-for all nature of PVP.

That's what it seems like, but you're forgetting about three important things:

1. Each skill only goes up to level 5.
2. There are only so many skills that can affect any one type of ship.
3. A character can only fly one ship at a time.

In personal terms, you *can* and *will* catch up to the veterans, because there's a hard cap on how much benefit their time in-game can give them at any particular moment. Beyond a certain point, a player's SP tally affects their versatility from battle to battle much more than it does their effectiveness in any one battle.

As for newer corps, there are of course problems if you start out with a new corp comprised only of new players, but even in that situation, you - again - *can* and *will* catch up to the veterans as your pilots skill up and learn, thanks to the wonders of diminishing returns.

 

[insanelich]

I don't get the people who say Eve doesn't have grind.

It has the exact same grind sandwich WoW does, with the possible exception that you can actually make a living with PvP unless you get repeatedly shot out of the sky - which you will if you try that as a newbie - but the grind is for money instead of experience. It isn't any less grind if it's a gp grind instead of an xp grind.

 

[PegasusJF]

Therumancer, first, CCP does have future plans to be able to fly into planet atmospheres, beyond that I'm not sure, but I have heard of plans to include planets into the game.

Second, it's a common misconception that the newbie cannot possibly catch up with a vet. that's not really true. The only thing the vet gains is the ability to diversify more, train more types of weapons/ship ro train an industrial skill, but as far as one line of ships and weapons, he can only go so far, and a newbie could reach him within six months if that as far as battleships go.

 

[lord667]

I don't get the people who say Eve doesn't have grind.

It has the exact same grind sandwich WoW does, with the possible exception that you can actually make a living with PvP unless you get repeatedly shot out of the sky - which you will if you try that as a newbie - but the grind is for money instead of experience. It isn't any less grind if it's a gp grind instead of an xp grind.

The grind's there if you can't think of anything else at that moment, or if you're one of the specimens who enjoys that sort of thing, but people have found other ways. Istvaan Shogatsu and his Guiding Hand Social Club, "mercenaries" who specialise in infiltrating and ripping off their contract's targets spring to mind as a famous example, but there are other ways. The key is that you're expected to come up with them yourself, and the grind is just what you do if you're out of ideas. Once again, no neon signs.

 

[idragon]

I been watching Yath"ZZZ" from the start, and while it started funny, and i thought he actually knows how to review a mmorpg game. You actually don't Y. While EVE Online has many week points, most of them you pointed out are not. You have a cocky opinion which is funny sometimes, but you don't digg enough to actually see a game and his features, so lately is not even funny..

You know what i understand from your review about the game?

"I am lassy Aussie Ass on cracks, and i cannot play deep, complex games, i just wanna shoot things, and also get all from the start, if possible". Also the "cliche" about Geeks, please thats so 90's, you didn't evolve ? Everybody has a hobby, a drug, anything. I don't consider anybody geek, and i am not one or maybe i am sometimes, who cares.

EVE Online has different target then your WOW example, where they targeted to be played by your dog and the crack whore in the front of the Naughty Bar you visit to get inspiration( Accessibility ? PFF! Money! ). EVE has 300k subscribers for a reason, it has the harshest pvp and the best out here, and also it very complex and PLAYER DRIVEN. You know where actually you do something in that world and you can influence it, participate in something epic. CCP Games didnt started to make a game to be played by every moron on the planet so they can get rich, tho i must admit WOW introduced a few standards, good ones.

-You Shoulded said about the PVE Content more, and why it good or bad.
-The PVP is far from what the hell u understand. It matter the weapons, modules, who attacks first, who reacts the fastest, who doesn't panic, who knows when to retreat and many other things. Not just clicking something or at some point.
-Player Created Content? From territories that groups are fighting for years, from Construction of Space Stations in rough space, from trading and manufacturing(90% of the items from the market are made by players). Events that generates content and keep players busy for years.

- Construction of huge ships like Titans and Motherships, it basically a fuking country there and you made a review after a 14 day trial, lol. Escapist dont be so cheap and buy him an account next time...

So please stay away from MMORPG GAMES. To truly review a MMORPG Game, it takes at least month(depends on how many features it has, the complexity and other things), because they are deeper then you average single player game that you can review it after 8 hours of playtime max.

In the last 6 months your reviews are worser, and worser, and not because i am fanboy of a game, but you started to miss features to review, and you just want to get a quickie in the game, where it makes you uber from the 1-3 hours and that's about it. You WIN!. At least you get traffic and people click ze ADS. HINT! HINT!

P.S. Played EVE Online for about 2 years, hardcore pvper, and loved most of it, but indeed i quited the game because of the carebears like Yathzee who lately are flooding the game, and when they see a powerfull group of 10 people(with real experience not EQUIP, Yazthsme), even if they are 20, they run...

 

[insanelich]

*snip* Yath"ZZZ"
*snip* "I am lassy Aussie Ass on cracks, and i cannot play deep, complex games,
*snip* the Naughty Bar you visit to get inspiration
*snip* CCP Games didnt started to make a game to be played by every moron on the planet
*snip* carebears like Yathzee

A bit of an ad hominem addict eh?

 

[KiraMermaid]

I remember playing EVE Online.. I found it so insanely boring and unfriendly, I don't believe I played past the first day. I couldn't understand why my friend enjoyed it so much. I had more fun just fishing in Final Fantasy XI.

 

[Metonym]

Hmm thinking about necroing my old account. Good one Y now don´t forget to review Darkfall when it surfaces

 

[Nohra]

I think the biggest problem in EVE remains that whoever has been playing longest is automatically the best.

That, and how complicated the combat system is. Don't get me wrong, it's quite realistic, but for ships that can at most only sport 8 guns/missile launchers, it's a bit complex compared to that simplicity.

And the PvE becomes the same monotonous grind with things that will pop you slightly faster than the previous group of things unless you have so many hardeners that 3k shot turns into a 50 damage shot. Really, the only change between level 1 and level 4 missions is that now instead of a frigate, you're generally in a battleship, and you have so many hardeners that you take about the same amount of damage your frigate was taking, but your armor repairer/shield booster does about 10 times the amount now.

 

[zbobet2012]

I think the biggest problem in EVE remains that whoever has been playing longest is automatically the best

Yeah no, if you don't know how to fit and fly your ship in pvp you will still suck hardcore. I solo pepople with twice the time in the game as me every day because they armor tank a vagabond or sit on a in a nano ship.

 

[Odjin]

I like playing games with other people. MMO's, splitscreen/online FPS, Guitar Hero, I don't care. Playing on your own against the computer is purely and simply less fun than playing with and/or against people.

That's a difference. There you play with friends and have a good time... let's say for an evening or a couple of hours. It's not like filling up a chat window with nonsense and allying with total strangers just so you are in the dealing end of a Gang-Bang. The problem with this games is that it's not "friends playing together" but "socializing" crap. I like playing PoA with a couple of guys I know or Quake back then with people on a LAN. This is fun but this is the important difference: play "with" friends and not play "against" total strangers. Later one is what MMOs try to achieve and they fail since it's just clobbered together out of nowhere and has therefore no "meat" nor "will to exist".

No. Strategy is a long-term battle-plan, tactics is the short-term implementation of that part of the plan using conditions and resources available.

PoA has tactics for example but not this game here. Chess has strategy but not this game. In a game to be competitive, fun and challenging you need a balance game with a reasonable set of alternatives. Then strategy and/or tactics ( depending on the game ) comes into play. MMOs are about crawling into the arse of high ranking players to GB others. This is at best back-stabbing and arse-licking but has not even the slightest to do with strategy or tactics in a fair and challanging match.

100-vs-1 is very much strategy and tactics; i.e., planning how you're going to make sure you're the 100 and not the 1. Figuring out how to create situations where you have the advantage and avoid situations where you don't is a cornerstone of BOTH strategy AND tactics, and abject failure to employ either is usually the reason you find yourself in a 100-vs-1 encounter in the first place. I'm sorry if you thought charging around blind and attacking everything you see would be as effective in MMO PvP as they are in GTA.

Wrong. It's cheating and in general unfair playing ( or "trashing" how we call this kind of play style ). Unbalanced gameplay is a failure since it rewards only the cheaters and the lamers glueing to high rankers to do their work. This is not strategy nor tactics ( see above ).

Bottom line, people with no imagination who need big neon signs pointing to the fun won't enjoy Eve and shouldn't even bother. Not to say that imaginative self-starters will definitely like it, but it makes them Might Do's instead of Definitely Won'ts.

If I have already imagination why then pay big bucket for a broken gameplay where only "my imagination" ( and that of others ) is fixing the failure? If the game would be free, okay, go on and let the players fix the broken game with imagination... it's their problem. But paying for a broken game experience is simply one of the reasons todays gaming industries sucks so hard.

You aren't. Unless you're a mission-grinder or a career miner

Isn't this exactly what you need to get anywhere to start with? And those using it are simply uber without having to do anything? I stick there to Yathzees view in that a game which is designed to amuse while you play it requires you to go amuse yourself doing something else is simply a failure.

 

[daedrick]

yes, yes, its so true. I totaly agree about the nerdz of the nerdz of the nerdz of the normal people... thingy. Why cant I ever frigging make a remotly good english sentence.

Life is so hard.

/wrist

 

[Cynopt]

Much love and all that, but before Yahtzee reviews another MMO he has got to start by getting access to an end-game enabled account instead of just the starter; the early game is always little more than a bit of tutorial (if your lucky) and a lot of mindless level grinding so you can get to the real game.
He's also got to find a way to actually engage with the social part of the game; it's common knowledge they all play like a semi-retarded, laggy version of any standard RPG from the previous decade, so until someone finds a way to build a persistent-world MMO with proper gameplay, the only thing that really matters is how well it enables you to enjoy running around and killing shit with *other* people.
Ideally, he ought to try raiding or similar large-group stuff for a month or two if he really wants to trash the genre with total authority, but meh; mostly spot-on as usual.

 

[Vinanath Diesel]

I really have to point out that Eve's TRIAL really is too short to make an informed opinion on it. The statement Yathze made concerning the combat system is innacurate. I have seen roving gangs of noobs take on eve vets and wipe the floor with the so called vets. All in all, a funny review just not a fair shake. If it's already been mentioned, then I apologize but I simply can't be arsed to go through 420 comments on this epic threadnought.

 

[Portkins]

I really have to point out that Eve's TRIAL really is too short to make an informed opinion on it. The statement Yathze made concerning the combat system is innacurate.

Fully agreed, but I do agree about some (of Yahtzee's) opinions. Aliens would've been a plus, for one thing.

 

[koshua]

Having played Eve in the background for three years now, I heartily endorse Y's closing comment. It is indeed my executive background toy! It does indeed take ages to do anything. This is part of the the appeal ...

However, deliberately avoiding player corporations and not even mentioning PvP or manufacturing rather misses out on about 95% of the game ...