Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[John Funk]

But thats not what it was supposed to be, it never was. This is Hideos last game of the series, it was going to be, and was, the thing that tied up all the loose ends. The man does not make games for people who don't get what hes doing, and still won't then I'm sorry you paid money for a game that anyone familiar with Hideos work could have told you was going to be a book more than anything. Just look at ZOE for crying out loud.

And yes I fully realize some fans would be upset, but you won't draw in any new fans if your not funny, and your not anymore. I was hoping to use a bit of diplomacy and make you think, but as you said not something to discuss here.

I played MGS1, MGS2, MGS3. Enjoyed them, but does that make them flawless masterpieces? Of course not. I know *exactly* what Hideo's trying to do with MGS, but that does not for a single second mean the game is above reproach.

 

[Groovewood]

I think those details added ALOT ot the game. I think more games should add in that kind of thing. Its much more interesting when the good guys and bad guys feel human as opposed to when they just seem like, well MGS3 is a good example. I WANTED to hear long backstories about them, I wanted to know what the hell was up with the pain or what the fear did that made him the way he is... those would have been NICE to know. It would have added alot to the setting and the story as a whole. Its that content that is just the most interesting and adds the rich detail that makes the game worth playing.

Well, I guess I'll call this up to the classic "Different Strokes for different folks." You enjoy the background details, I personally don't. Like I said, it's a work of fiction, I buy into it, no need to hit me over the head with long winded explanations to make me buy into it more. I liked Vamp more as a vampire then a guy with nanomachines (then again I love Castlevania so that might be why I preferred the former.)

However, in the previous MGS' a lot of the background data was revealed through optional codec calls. Since I like giant mechs, I called Sigint in MGS 3 to find out more about the Shagohad (however you spell that thing) since I found it interesting. If the player didn't care about the tank, then he wouldn't call or skip the conversation, in MGS 4 though, it's all in cut scene form, and I'm not going to skip anything for fear of missing part of the actual story. MGS 4 did away with the codec, so crammed alot of that extra detail into the actual cut scenes to make up. Overall, the game's cut scenes just feel bloated more than anything else, very little essential stuff, but lots of minor little stuff filling in the spaces between the real plot points.

 

[TerraMGP]

.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

 

[YYZed]

"It's good to remember that all reviews are subjected personal opinions because if you personally enjoy the game then you shouldn't let them get to you. Unless theres a little nibbling doubt in the back of your mind convincing you that your not having as much fun as you think your having."

Quoted Yahtzee May 7, 2008. Mailbag Showdown.

 

[Joeshie]

I'm glad Yahtzee called out MGS4 on the shitty storytelling. MGS has always suffered from interesting stories getting dragged down by terrible storytelling.

In a series that puts so much focus on the narrative, you would think they could have improved upon it a bit.

 

[TerraMGP]

The first review I watched was Super Mario Galaxy and the entire tone of the article is very different. With reviews like SMG, Guitar Hero 3, Mass Effect, etc, he pointed out the obvious flaws in the games that mainstream critics left out, but still gave them their due at the end. However, the reviews lately have been falling into a definete pattern
JRPGs Suck
Dialogue Bad
Lots of Guns/Combat Good
Yahtzee has said many times he is a "Games are Art" guy yet almost every game that tries to trancend the genre and be something more (Mass Effect, The Witcher, Assassin's Creed) he bitches about them getting in the way of the player.
It seems that ZP has hit the crossroad every form of entertainment hits when it becomes mainstream, some people find that its lost what it got it there in the first place. Whatever, I'm sure The Escapist is paying you handsomely (if not you're getting screwed based on the amount of ads) and congratulations for that. I'll still tune in every Wednesday, but not with the same joy I used to.

This sums it all up. I'd buy it that it was simply his opinion if their was consistency.

 

[PrimeZero2]

Just as I thought, this turned out to be just like the Mass Effect review.

He said jokingly in his CoD4 review that he had started to measure his worth by how much internet traffic he generates. I thought that was funny at the time, but it seems clear to me that he didn't want to play the game. The man knew or was told that an MGS4 review would generate a lot of traffic, and knowing he probably wouldn't enjoy the experience, breezed through it on easy. That's the impression I get from this review.

This is the first review of his I've strongly disagreed with. He can complain about the cut-scene length all he wants, I know many take issue with them, and that's fine. It's when I started to get the feeling that he and I didn't play the same game is when the red flags started going up. A tranq gun that had infinite ammo and always KOs in one shot? Absolutely no emhasis on stealth? Having to hold down L1 AND triangle to shoot? The "EZ" gun as it was called in MGS3 is only available on the easiest setting. You can only place little to no emphasis on "Tactical Espionage" on the two easiest settings, and the only guns that you had to tap (tap, mind you, not hold) triangle for was for the sniper rifles.

I know full well that MGS is a "love it or hate it" series. It doesn't bother me that Yahtzee doesn't like it, just as it didn't irk me when he didn't particularly enjoy Mass Effect or Uncharted. What bothers me is that it seems like he's losing his passion for the job. He found the thing he disliked most about the game and apparently just harped on it to satiate the haters and generate traffic. To me, that's not a fair review. I hated Halo 3, and Yahtzee didn't like it either, but he gave it a fair review (even if he did skip the multiplayer). The only things he really accomplished here was riling up the fanboys, generating traffic, and managing to spend 80% of his review complaining about cut-scenes and how the game didn't focus enough on gameplay. Whether you view this as great irony, blatant hypocrisy, or mere coincidence is up to you.

The only thing that I can suggest is that Yahtzee goes back and plays through the game on at least Solid Normal (skipping cut-scenes, of course), and seeing how it's an entirely different game. I'm not looking for some sort of justification, or a revision of the review, or any sort of ego serving response. I just think that he really needs to give the game the fair chance he apparently didn't this time around.

 

[John Funk]

.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

Yahtzee made an adventure game. The story there IS the gameplay, as with all games in the genre. Gameplay is still the driving factor, and there is much more of it than story.

With Metal Gear Solid 4, a self-proclaimed 'action' game, the fact that there is at least twice as much story (likely much more) than gameplay, and that cutscenes INTERRUPT the gameplay? That's a huge flaw in game design.

The final cutscene--from the moment you last control Snake in any way shape or form, to the moment the last person finishes speaking, is over an hour and fifteen minutes long.

That's *absurd.*

I love me a good story, but if I want something like that I'll read a book.

 

[Groovewood]

.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

But does Yahtzee say his game is an awesome experience? I don't know, but I don't think so. If he did then that could be conceived as hypocrisy, but then again there are many more factors to take into account. You can write a mystery and still find fault with another mystery story. Who's to say Yahtzee likes his game? Maybe when he created it he did, but maybe now he thinks it's total crap.

 

[VMerken]

Overall, the game's cut scenes just feel bloated more than anything else, very little essential stuff, but lots of minor little stuff filling in the spaces between the real plot points.

Yep, and ironically, some of the more interesting parts of the *actual game* are not covered with the same type of zeal as the "minor little stuff". A pity, because those are the parts I'd like to see covered - the ones which have an impact on the game itself

 

[Magugag]

Hey, I can sum stuff up too!

When a game ceases to be a game and becomes a book or movie, it is transcending the genre but in a literal way not a good way. It is then no longer a good game even if it is a great story.

There!

 

[tratorix]

.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

Yup, we're all just a bunch of idiots who play nothing but Halo and can't understand Hideo's IMPORTANT MESSAGE. Maybe some day someone will fulfill your dream of a game that's just a single character talking about his life experiences for 20 hours with no annoying gameplay. Also, I'm pretty sure none of Yahtzee's game had cutscenes that were over twenty minutes long. It's very hard to compare adventure games someone made in their spare time and an action game with a huge production staff and a million dollar budget.

 

[TerraMGP]

.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

But does Yahtzee say his game is an awesome experience? I don't know, but I don't think so. If he did then that could be conceived as hypocrisy, but then again there are many more factors to take into account. You can write a mystery and still find fault with another mystery story. Who's to say Yahtzee likes his game? Maybe when he created it he did, but maybe now he thinks it's total crap.

If he actually put out a game he himself thought was bad, let alone put enough time and effort into that story... honestly at that point he just has no business reviewing games. When you are an independent game designer you make games YOU would want to play, they are a reflection of what YOU have to offer. If he didn't think he at least had a good concept he would never put it out.

Bottom line is that if you people really think that its bad for not fitting into a nice neat little mold, which none of the MGS games have really done, then, well, I just don't know what people want but I feel like the future of video games is bleak.

 

[letherclad]

I assume it was just a coincidence that a ninja gaiden 2 trailer came on after you tore mgs4 apart... what a sellout

 

[Proto Cloud]

Holy crap, this is some serious war going on against ZP fans and the critics. I'm not even going to bother getting into the fray as it's likely that no one will change their minds, because everyone thinks of themselves as the most knowledgeable.

Now I haven't played the game, so I have no right to contest his opinion, but I have to say that all the ZP fans should unanimously shut up about the game unless they've played it themselves (seriously, how many of you have PS3s?).

I also have to agree with Terra on her points, Yahtzee has caved in to popular demand. As evidenced by the lack of interest in his positive reviews (Portal, Psychonauts, and COD4). But I don't blame him, as he even admits to it at the end of this video by saying: "I'm probably just jealous because I'm not yet in a position where I can write whatever bollocks I want and never get called on it." This is perhaps why he is so hypocritical, eh.

Personally, I can't wait to play this game. I don't care what he says because I know he's all about instant gratification. I just wish he would make more personal reviews, instead of making them repetitive rant fests. (like SSBB and virtually every RPG) Because all he does is hammer repeatedly on one or two problems he has with the genre or series and gives no concession.

 

[yzzlthtz]

FF game stories, aside from 9 anyways, stopped being good after six.

this was just a random message i quoted to point this out:

it's hilarious to me how people on forums (especially gamer forums) state opinions like they are bone fide scientific fact researched by bona fide scientists in science labs around the world.


Yahtzee, while very observant intelligent and funny, comes across more and more as a 360 fanboy who successfully tells the frothing nerd masses what to think about every game he reviews. Between him and Kotaku, there is hardly an original opinion amongst the brainwashed nerd elite.

 

[TerraMGP]

What I am saying is story is not bad, and alot of detail can be a very good thing especially when presented well. Again this is why people need to be forced to do some real RP heavy D&D once in a while.

 

[Yahtzee Croshaw]

Wait, Yahtzee has an ACTION game with 20-30 minute cutscenes?

 

[tratorix]

.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

But does Yahtzee say his game is an awesome experience? I don't know, but I don't think so. If he did then that could be conceived as hypocrisy, but then again there are many more factors to take into account. You can write a mystery and still find fault with another mystery story. Who's to say Yahtzee likes his game? Maybe when he created it he did, but maybe now he thinks it's total crap.

If he actually put out a game he himself thought was bad, let alone put enough time and effort into that story... honestly at that point he just has no business reviewing games. When you are an independent game designer you make games YOU would want to play, they are a reflection of what YOU have to offer. If he didn't think he at least had a good concept he would never put it out.

Bottom line is that if you people really think that its bad for not fitting into a nice neat little mold, which none of the MGS games have really done, then, well, I just don't know what people want but I feel like the future of video games is bleak.

I don't think the MGS games are bad. I don't think they are perfect. I think they could be improved. That's the message i'm getting from a lot of people here. You just seem to be taking it way too personally. Are you Hideo Kojima in disguise?

 

[SirSchmoopy]

You hate his inconsistencies but are bored that his opinions are sometimes consistent?

There is a major difference between making a game and reviewing it. More often then not you can make something and go "Why did I even do that?". Did Yahtzhee ever say his game was a perfect game and this is how all games should be designed? Or was he just making a game to make one? I doubt he thinks his game is perfect and I bet theres some things he wish he could change so to use it as a guide line for comparing his game to his reviews is like using a ruler to decide how tasty an apply is.