Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[Lyxtwing]

Great review... basically everything I thought would be wrong with MGS4 (or at least could be better).

Now about the Ninja Gaiden 2 trailer, did they *really* use that fucking CCHHJJJJUUURRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!! scream you hear in every cheesy B-movie, shitty game, and horror movie trailer ever created??

You mean the 'CCHHJJJJUUURRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!' that was originally, as far as I know, used in Starcraft? Which everyone knows is a 'shitty game'.

It was used long before that. The first time it popped up (from what I hear), was in the movie Broken Arrow in 1996 and has been used in countless movies and games since.

 

[Saleck]

@nightfish
I meant right at the end where the Escapist advertises all of the content it shows

 

[The Bandit]

If you just want to play the game you should have bought another game, and if you can't understand why details are repeated in the series then frankly your not paying close enough attention. The problem is that people see these 'merits' as things held against COMMON games. This is part of a series. Its like picking up the last book in a series that has a writing style you don't like and complaining that the story is bad because you don't understand it and you think plot points are repeated way too much. In the end I think the problem is with people having too narrow a view of what video games should be and lacking an appreciation for the writing.

As for why your trying, I think its because your too dense to realize your wrong.

I would have respected your opinion if you had cut off the last two sentences. Claiming people are stupid just because they disagree with you is... Well, it's stupid.

 

[TerraMGP]

only the last one was a barb at anyone though. I don't think the narrow view is a result of stupidity at all, I think its more cultural and it extends past gaming. People seem to have this thought that "Things are what they are and that is it" and that just kind of gets frustrating when they let that blind them to something potentially good.

 

[The Bandit]

People think its too much storytelling beacuse they don't understand, or perhaps don't care how intricate the man is. He's detail oriented. The whole intention of this game was to tie up all the loose ends.

</RE-fail>

Let me stop you right there professor... People say it's too much storytelling because they don't WANT or NEED to understand; because:
A. They want to PLAY the GAME already,
B. The "detailed" information was already referenced and belabored 49,637.2 times already, or
C. All of the above.

You can still have a game that is detailed oriented that does not remove you from being IN the game, and instead leave you being a helpless observer of a cinematic cut-scene. That's like going to read a book and the entire book is pictures. You want to CREATE the pictures in your head, not have them spelled out for you, eliminating the need for you imagination.

If you liked the previous MGS's, and you're an OCD information-whore, then great; I'm sure this was right up your alley.

But since a lot of people haven't, and we're still allowed to hold games accountable to their individual merits regardless what "series" they're apart of--since they are all still GAMES at their core--then you'll just have to forgive the majority of people for basing it against the very medium it claims to be a part of.

I feel as though someone else already said this though, like the person who created the video you've been brainlessly commenting on for the past few days... so I'm not sure why I'm trying too

Listen ya want GAME PLAY then go an play Painkiller or Serious Sam. It'll give enough game play for your dried up brain, MGS focuses on story telling an plot twists, that what makes it original an unique. If we wanted just game play, we could get pointless shit like Splinter Cell, or the pointless FPS shooters

...

Then why the FUCK isn't MGS a movie you twat?

 

[John Funk]

I thought the story in MGS4 was ridiculous long before Yahtzee's review, thank you very much

 

[TerraMGP]

Well if you thought it was long before then it really was not for you to begin with, but to say its bad writing, I really think thats a band wagon that many are jumping on more because he said it.

 

[John Funk]

Well if you thought it was long before then it really was not for you to begin with, but to say its bad writing, I really think thats a band wagon that many are jumping on more because he said it.

Read it again. I didn't think it was ridiculously long, I thought it was ridiculous... long before Yahtzee's review. Every bit of the MGS4 storyline seems contrived and clunky to me, and I loved the hell out of MGS1 and MGS3.

But because the *story* might be great (I don't particularly think so, but hey, different strokes)... does not mean the writing is. As Yahtzee says way back in Mass Effect review, the best sort of writing for a visual medium is "succinct and punchy."

Which MGS4 is anything but.

Hell, if you include the books, Halo's got a pretty nice story too. Not the most unique around, but at least it isn't filled with Deus Ex Machina and contrivance like MGS4. It's presented well.

Oh, and before you say "I don't want to read a book to get the story in the game," I don't want to have to watch a movie to get my story either

Half-Life 2 is an excellent example of storyline presented well without interrupting gameplay one iota.

(Heck, Mass Effect review covers many of your previously made points.)

 

[The Bandit]

Well if you thought it was long before then it really was not for you to begin with, but to say its bad writing, I really think thats a band wagon that many are jumping on more because he said it.

I've never played a single MGS game, so take this as the Yahtzee-fanboyish statement that it is, but I don't understand how anything involving clones and characters coming back to life could be considered good writing.

Then again, it's very possible Yahtzee just played off my ignorance and exaggerated the story a bit in his review. I don't know.

 

[TerraMGP]

So he doesn't understand genetics, The concept of a lightsaber alone is laughable at best and you don't see anyone complaining. This is why its Science fiction. As for the whole "Punchy is best" thing I wholeheartedly disagree. I think storys can be amazing without being Succinct or punchy. Thats the problem people want stories and writing that they don't have to invest anything into.

I guess my basic point is that you guys don't like the writing, that does not make it bad writing, and anyone who would buy the game should have done their homework and seen if it was something they would want anyways. They made it quite clear that this would have alot of cutscenes. Obviously it was not made for people who want punchy writing.

As for the coming back to life -spoiler- It deals with a guy whos father was a VERY powerful psychic and who inherited some of his power having an arm grafted on to replace one he got cut off. You know that whole psychic thing where you pick up on someones past or feelings because you hold an object of theirs? Its supposed to be kind of like that. Again though its Sci-fi, and a pain elemental working over several mellenia to get some office clerk to become his new Scion for some odd reason, even going so far as to set up a church for it, really isn't any less convoluted and far fetched (See the Chzo series)

 

[The Bandit]

So he doesn't understand genetics, The concept of a lightsaber alone is laughable at best and you don't see anyone complaining. This is why its Science fiction. As for the whole "Punchy is best" thing I wholeheartedly disagree. I think storys can be amazing without being Succinct or punchy. Thats the problem people want stories and writing that they don't have to invest anything into.

I guess my basic point is that you guys don't like the writing, that does not make it bad writing, and anyone who would buy the game should have done their homework and seen if it was something they would want anyways. They made it quite clear that this would have alot of cutscenes. Obviously it was not made for people who want punchy writing.

...Are you comparing genetics to a lightsaber? I could've sworn that, y'know, genetics was a well known scientific concept and that a lightsaber was a well known piece of fiction.

 

[John Funk]

And just because you like the writing doesn't make it *good* writing, either.

I take it you disagree with The Bard, as well? "Brevity is the soul of wit."

Just because they made it clear that it would have a lot of non-interactive cutscenes (far more than any game in the series before--I loved MGS1 and MGS3 and liked MGS2, but MGS4 is 'meh' to me, so there isn't even that) *doesn't mean that it's automatically okay that they did.*

A cutscene that is an hour and fifteen (or whatever) minutes long is *not* okay.

 

[Mr_Vorhias]

I smell another hate-mail response video after this.

 

[TerraMGP]

...Are you comparing genetics to a lightsaber? I could've sworn that, y'know, genetics was a well known scientific concept and that a lightsaber was a well known piece of fiction.

and? lightsabers are fiction based on factual principals, as are light sabers. They are Science fiction, so are hyper drives and teleporters and all of those things. This is genetic science fiction but STILL fiction.

And just because you like the writing doesn't make it *good* writing, either.

I take it you disagree with The Bard, as well? "Brevity is the soul of wit."

Just because they made it clear that it would have a lot of non-interactive cutscenes (far more than any game in the series before--I loved MGS1 and MGS3 and liked MGS2, but MGS4 is 'meh' to me, so there isn't even that) *doesn't mean that it's automatically okay that they did.*

A cutscene that is an hour and fifteen (or whatever) minutes long is *not* okay.

And just because it has alot of content does not make it bad writing. Who are you to say that cut scenes that long are not ok Hmm? I want to know why your lack of enjoyment with them makes it bad writing. Again people are complaining about 'bad' writing because the game ended up being something they would not enjoy and they should have been able to tell. It is not bad writing, its just not the standard 'punchy' spoonfed writing.

 

[John Funk]

Well, the gist of hyperdrives and lightsabers is that at some point in the future technology will somehow make this possible.

No technology will ever correct the fundamentally wrong idea that you can split up recessive and dominant genes or that dominant genes are necessarily superior. That is a shamefully wrong sixth-grade interpretation of Mendelian genetics.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I really hope Yahtzee makes another Mailbag Showdown, the last one was REALLY funny.

 

[TerraMGP]

I'm an engineer, and I will tell you now that lightsabers would require components that would make them far more dangerous, and more potent, even before the blade was put into the mix, they are fiction as of right now and the premise is flawed from a scientific standpoint. Your splitting hairs. What you are basically saying is that stories set in a more modern setting can't have fundamentally flawed tech because things have to seem like they are far enough away to be attainable before they work. I am sorry but that argument does not hold water.