Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[Seperot]

Honestly while it was a enjoyable review, i feel it falls into the same trap that SSBB review did.

The problem is when Yahtzee resigns himself to play a game he has no real liking in it shows in the review, and it comes off as alot less humorous then i would expect. This does happens with the big name sequel titles rather then the not so exciting ones (see Haze) but i think its detremental to his reveiwer status in general if he keeps picking up games he has already mentally reviewed as shit before he actually plays it because it just comes off as second rate.

Still, i dont think any big name titles are coming out now till september so i'm hoping we should get some awesome reviews like painkiller was again.

 

[TerraMGP]

You're right about one thing, I hate Marvel. Why do you keep mentioning other things with bad writing? Rather than defend Metal Gear and try to give examples of why you think it's good you're just pointing at other stuff and saying "See? They do it too!" I'm not saying those others aren't bad, I'm saying Kojima isn't the genius you and thousands of others make him out to be.

I get that Kojima wants to showcase the horrors of war (a dead horse he has thoroughly bludgeoned into pulp at this point) but when he adds back story upon back story at the expense of the game itself, that's bad. For example, in Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake is given a mission to rescue Sokolov, but before he can get to that he has to meet his support team (who were on the same damn plane he just jumped out of) and have a chat with the Boss about their past. I understand the need to fill in the gamer on the plot, but isn't it best to stick to basics? I was listening to it all and asking myself what the hell any of it had to do with rescuing Sokolov.

My point is these are not things with bad writing, you just have a totally diffrent taste in writing so when you see something that does not fit that taste, its bad. I really think we have nothing left to say. I have no idea what you have against MGS, Star wars, Marvel, And probably Tolkien, GITS, Warhammer 40K and everything else but at this point I just have no respect for your opinion what so ever in terms of writing. You can't see past the main plot idea behind a story it seems, or you just don't care. Its not bad writing its just that you don't like more complex writing.

 

[ThePlake0815]

As a MGS fan: that's why i love his Reviews ^^

 

[TerraMGP]

Well its hard to take an opinion seriously when you keep knocking things as bad writing simply because they don't seem to be your type of writing. It feels almost like arguing with someone whos just trying to be contrary. The thing is I don't think that Kojima has ever really given out too much information that did not end up falling into place in his grand tapestry. I guess we just disagree because frankly I don't find ANY of that to be the case in his work. I think he has done a good job of explaining his characters, that he gives out whats really needed and in truth alot of the little details have always just been things that you have to mull over. Its the little things that end up making the story, they are important if you just look at them long enough.

 

[Jumplion]

(please note that i have not read your previous arguments, so i gathered what i could. Please correct me if i'm wrong)

Wow, that is extremely retarted IMHO. So the MGS series is automatically irrelivant and the plot is poorly written because it takes place on Earth in an alternate 20th and 21st century and has impossible technologies and genetics because it is in an ALTERNATE Earth. But Star Wars is completely relevant and can be believed because it doesn't take place in our galaxy, and even though the physics are completely impossible (faster than light travel, light sabers, ray guns) it is apparantly better story writing than MGS (not saying SW has bad writing, they are both equal)? Personally, i had no idea what the hell was going on in the SW episodes i watched in the order of release.

I guess you missed the part where I implied that Star Wars has nonsensical plots too. Alternate Earths is one thing, the many worlds theory makes anything possible I suppose, but some of the things in Metal Gear would have to take place in Bizarro World. Vamp runs up walls, Fortune deflects bullets without the aid of technology (even the technology was stupid), I could go on all day.

The bad science was just something we got into discussing. In one of my earlier posts I cited the repetitive dialog, game-to-game retcons, and of course bad science as just a few examples of Kojima's terrible writing. There's also the face that nearly everyone has a drawn out death scene with "last words" that could fill seven pages of the script, and that's regardless of whether they stay dead or not. The only exception to the rule were the Cobras in MGS3, I think the Fury was the only one who talked a lot before his death but even that was short compared to some of the deaths in this series.

Surprisingly, I like the Metal Gear series. The gameplay is usually fun, and the plot is usually worth a few laughs.

(just a reminder that we are arguing for the sake of arguing )

Really? Excuses that MGS is poorly written (or something along those lines) because Vamp can run on walls? If Ninjas in the 10th century (or whatever century the games are based in) can run on walls why can't a seemingly immortal person in the FUTURE (for ninjas) with technology run on walls and not be classified as bad writting?

And Fortune was called "Lady Luck" for a reason, seeing as how every grenade thrown at her was a dud and shots always missed. It goes away from the technology side of MGS and goes into a "magical feel" or soemthing like that.

I just don't understand how you can impliy that the MGS series has bad writing. It's much more believeable than a ring that somehow destroys everything in range, or faster than light travel, or magical demons that pop up and a ninja with a huge arsenal of weapons to hack and slash at them.

Hell, any game could be labeled as being poorly written. Eternal Sonata, about a composer dreaming of a world in peril or whatever. WhAt ThE hElL iS tHaT/

If Kojima can't be creative with his story without being accused of writing poorly then MGS should have never been, and i would rue that day.

Just one more thing (not directed to you) for everyone who says that Kojima is a frustrated film maker or that he should make movies instead of games because of all the cutscenes, A)Fuck you and B)Which would you rather have? A Movie with no interactivness whatsoever or a Game that is like a movie, but you can be part of the experience?

My money's on the game.

@Indigo_dingo: Yes, precisely. Well done.

 

[Spacewolf]

well ive never played any other MSG games or heard any plots so before this i just looked on wiki and when i played though i liked it even the overly lengthy cutscenes, sure some could of used cutting back, as they where interesting especially if you think into them. I can see why people would dislike the game if they where used to faster paced games but there is a skip button if you dont like the cutscenes, Kojima also likes to use metaphors which can be confusing

 

[YYZed]

TerraMGP you know your a fanboy when every single post youve ever had was on this thread defending 1 single game, your clearly not going to convert ANYONE please just give up its been 3 DAYS. I'm not trying to take anyones side here but the sides are just TerraMGP against everyone else. This Shit is Bananas (im going to be quoting that for the next week i swear).

 

[Syine]

OMG i never, NEVER thought I'd see the day Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw would not make me laugh.
I wont blame you though Yahtzee, Its my fault, I'm a MGS fanboy, I know I am and Im proud ^_^
I have found that i have agreed with, and enjoyed, your critical reveiws on every single occation (apart from games i never played, still funny though^^) but the line has finaly been crossed; I am now the sad man who thought MGS4 could stand up to your "game destroying vocabulary" but alas, no.

I spent the whole vid waiting for a "But actually I enjoyed MGS4" in a Yahtzee kind of way but it just ended. >_<

anyway, if you ever read this (doubt that you will just becuase there are like, 600 replies and who has the time? xD) then i do think you expected MGS4 to be a fanboy only game and in retrospect, it is.
but i dont think you gave the chance (and the sneaking only realy works on the harder settings, its much better! ^_^) but then as we all know MGS4 is like Marmite.

Nuff said. haha

look forward to the next entry

oh and i know you hate request.....so i wont

 

[YYZed]

OMG i never, NEVER thought I'd see the day Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw would not make me laugh.
I wont blame you though Yahtzee, Its my fault, I'm a MGS fanboy, I know I am and Im proud ^_^
I have found that i have agreed with, and enjoyed, your critical reveiws on every single occation (apart from games i never played, still funny though^^) but the line has finaly been crossed; I am now the sad man who thought MGS4 could stand up to your "game destroying vocabulary" but alas, no.

I spent the whole vid waiting for a "But actually I enjoyed MGS4" in a Yahtzee kind of way but it just ended. >_<

anyway, if you ever read this (doubt that you will just becuase there are like, 600 replies and who has the time? xD) then i do think you expected MGS4 to be a fanboy only game and in retrospect, it is.
but i dont think you gave the chance (and the sneaking only realy works on the harder settings, its much better! ^_^) but then as we all know MGS4 is like Marmite.

Nuff said. haha

look forward to the next entry

oh and i know you hate request.....so i wont

Hes played through all of them im pretty sure he doesnt HATE them he just thinks its got some flaws.

 

[Roblin]

Its been widely known for a long, LONG time before the release that people who weren't interested in the series already weren't welcome. That means that the game is giving us the complex plots brilliant characterization and full and total explanations the fans want. The game couldn't make it clearer if it actually said on the box "If you haven't played the other MGS games, then kindly fuck right off".

I honestly think thats about the best way to put it. You love it or hate it and All the people who say the writing is bad, I'm sorry people but you just hate it, nothing more.

As I've mentioned before, I love the MGS series and can even forgive its wacky plot. But I still think the dialogue and even the story structure could have been better realised. But now that I think of it... I've given up caring.

Good review Yahtzee... But not the funniest.

 

[YYZed]

OMG i never, NEVER thought I'd see the day Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw would not make me laugh.
I wont blame you though Yahtzee, Its my fault, I'm a MGS fanboy, I know I am and Im proud ^_^
I have found that i have agreed with, and enjoyed, your critical reveiws on every single occation (apart from games i never played, still funny though^^) but the line has finaly been crossed; I am now the sad man who thought MGS4 could stand up to your "game destroying vocabulary" but alas, no.

I spent the whole vid waiting for a "But actually I enjoyed MGS4" in a Yahtzee kind of way but it just ended. >_<

anyway, if you ever read this (doubt that you will just becuase there are like, 600 replies and who has the time? xD) then i do think you expected MGS4 to be a fanboy only game and in retrospect, it is.
but i dont think you gave the chance (and the sneaking only realy works on the harder settings, its much better! ^_^) but then as we all know MGS4 is like Marmite.

Nuff said. haha

look forward to the next entry

oh and i know you hate request.....so i wont

Hes played through all of them im pretty sure he doesnt HATE them he just thinks its got some flaws.

If he doesn't know who the La Li Lu Le lo are, I doubt he did, even if he has claimed to play MGS2

eh whatever I have no room to talk the closest thing ive ever played to MGS is SSBB >_>.

 

[shatnershaman]

Just one more thing (not directed to you) for everyone who says that Kojima is a frustrated film maker or that he should make movies instead of games because of all the cutscenes, A)Fuck you and B)Which would you rather have? A Movie with no interactivness whatsoever or a Game that is like a movie, but you can be part of the experience?

My money's on the game.

A movie is $9 to see 20-35 (DVD-Blu-ray) to own A game is $10 to rent $60 to own
Movie graphics > Game graphics
Not saying MGS the movie would be better than the games (Although MGS4 is pretty much a movie(non-interactive)) just there are valid points for one (FF movies are good examples)

 

[JakubK666]

I haven't played the games so I'm not going to debate if it is badly written or not but I know most of the story and the main problem with MGS4 story is that it relies solely on the audience's suspension of disbelief.If you're not willing to put up with Kojima's bullshit,the game will do nothing but further reject you.A next-gen 2008 game shouldn't have an attitude like that towards the storyline.

 

[Jumplion]

Just one more thing (not directed to you) for everyone who says that Kojima is a frustrated film maker or that he should make movies instead of games because of all the cutscenes, A)Fuck you and B)Which would you rather have? A Movie with no interactivness whatsoever or a Game that is like a movie, but you can be part of the experience?

My money's on the game.

A movie is $9 to see 20-35 (DVD-Blu-ray) to own A game is $10 to rent $60 to own
Movie graphics > Game graphics
Not saying MGS the movie would be better than the games (Although MGS4 is pretty much a movie(non-interactive)) just there are valid points for one (FF movies are good examples)

Ah ha, BUT you can play (most) games over and over again and it will still be appealing to you. (Most) Movies get old after the first few runs of it.

PLUS, multiplayer. I don't think watching a movie with friends count as multiplayer for movies.

But really, you'd rather see a movie than get a movie and a game all in one? If that's so, then i feel very sorry for you.