Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

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John Funk

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Sure, as they are now. But who's to say that in a galaxy far far away they haven't discovered Plebotinium which specifically counteracts said dangerous potency?

Your argument (and your analogy) would hold weight if the topic in question was say, the implausibility of Metal Gear/Rex/Ray/Shagohod/Gekkos. But this isn't advanced technology, this is a fundamentally *wrong* version of Mendelian genetics--at the heart of the plot.
 

TerraMGP

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Jun 25, 2008
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Pain elemental.... Behatted 'master theif' that seems a bit much like a self Idealization.... mellenia of planning to replace an arrogant druid with a copy clerk. I am sorry but I just pointed to SOME of the ludicrous sounding elements in a great series of games. Why is it so hard to accept these things can add to a story?
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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TerraMGP said:
Why is it so hard to understand strict adherence to the norm is not always best?
For the same reason it appears to be hard for you to understand that different does not always make it better. Plus you've refused to accept any opinion that differs from your own has any merit, and generalized everyone even remotely implying that MSG4 is anything but flawless as ADD-afflicted, dense, or any number of other insults. People whose only problem was the presentation or pacing of the story are alienated in the same way as people who find the story confusing, ludicrous, or unnecessary. Your view has no room for deviation, and is really the narrow one here.
 

TerraMGP

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CantFaketheFunk said:
Sure, as they are now. But who's to say that in a galaxy far far away they haven't discovered Plebotinium which specifically counteracts said dangerous potency?

Your argument (and your analogy) would hold weight if the topic in question was say, the implausibility of Metal Gear/Rex/Ray/Shagohod/Gekkos. But this isn't advanced technology, this is a fundamentally *wrong* version of Mendelian genetics--at the heart of the plot.
And the lightsaber violates many basic principals of magnetism and partical physics. You don't seem to understand that it CANNOT work. The light saber as defined from star wars ins IMPOSSIBLE because it violates the laws of physics just as much as metal gear violates the laws of genetics. That is my whole point. Even if you could, somehow, construct a lightsaber it would work nothing like the movies and rip apart anything around it from the magnetic field needed to hold the blade in place. It is fiction, it does not work with real physics. See?
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Ok, I'm going to have to agree with TerraMGP on the topic of acceptable science deviation in a game. It is a work of fiction, and holding against it the fact that it got genetics wrong, among all the other unrealistic aspects, is just a bit nitpicky.
 

TerraMGP

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I'm sorry but both are fiction, and thats a cop out. Its fiction, it just SEEMS like one should be and one should not. We are talking about a theoretical 20th century where nanomachines are a governmental norm and giant mecha were black projects back in the 60s. I'm sorry but fiction is fiction and most science fiction no matter when and where it is set is inaccurate when compared to real life. That is why it is fiction.
 

TerraMGP

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How is the genetics bad writing? Disregarding the rest of the game a moment how is the flawed genetics bad writing? Science fiction is always based around various degrees of faulty scientific assumption. As for the puzzle elements in the game and such, if your complaining about them then frankly I don't understand why it any diffrent than any other game of its kind.
 

Jumplion

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mspencer82 said:
TerraMGP said:
And the lightsaber violates many basic principals of magnetism and partical physics. You don't seem to understand that it CANNOT work. The light saber as defined from star wars ins IMPOSSIBLE because it violates the laws of physics just as much as metal gear violates the laws of genetics. That is my whole point. Even if you could, somehow, construct a lightsaber it would work nothing like the movies and rip apart anything around it from the magnetic field needed to hold the blade in place. It is fiction, it does not work with real physics. See?
Star War science may have been unbelievably stupid, but we can always say that it makes sense in a weird way because it's a galaxy far away. The Star Wars universe operates differently than ours, they could have talking gerbils who command the forces of nature and Star Wars fans would consider it canon.

But you see, Metal Gear takes place on Earth in the 20th and 21st century. Among other things it gets incorrect, it totally ignores the fundamental rules of genetics. When your story takes place on Earth in present day you can't futz that much with scientific fact and have it be considered good writing.
(please note that i have not read your previous arguments, so i gathered what i could. Please correct me if i'm wrong)

Wow, that is extremely retarted IMHO. So the MGS series is automatically irrelivant and the plot is poorly written because it takes place on Earth in an alternate 20th and 21st century and has impossible technologies and genetics because it is in an ALTERNATE Earth. But Star Wars is completely relevant and can be believed because it doesn't take place in our galaxy, and even though the physics are completely impossible (faster than light travel, light sabers, ray guns) it is apparantly better story writing than MGS (not saying SW has bad writing, they are both equal)? Personally, i had no idea what the hell was going on in the SW episodes i watched in the order of release.

Hate to break it to ya, but Video Games do this sort of alternate reality all the time. Infact, any game that is set in the future is automatically an Alternate REality game because we don't know if that certain thing could ever happen. You see this kind of thing in WWII games where the situation is "What if Germany invaded the US?" and other stuff.

just wanted to squeez that in.

Now on the topic of the review, and after reading some comments, it was a spot on review. However, the gameplay changes DRAMATICALLY when you play it on harder difficulties. Drebin Points are multiplied by decimals giving you less DP, you can only carry a significantly less amount of rations and items, you get hurt more, enemies search for you even harder, one suspicious movement and they'll be all over your ass.

I personally don't know why people think the story is so confusing. Granted, i've never played a MGS game before #4 but even then i still read a small plot synopsis and read some character backgrounds and i loved the story.

And, comeon, PMC is a freakin' Private Military Corporation! It's used in real life, not like the La Li Le Lo Lu (or whatever) If you put on subtitles they tell you what some of hte Acronyms are.

I really hope Yahtzee does a mailbag showdown like before, it would really be awesome.

But other than those points, i really liked the review. I may not agree with what Yahtzee says, but i still enjoy them every Wednsay.
 

Roblin

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May 16, 2008
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My god, TerraMGP is still going?
TerraMGP said:
Still waters run deep after all.
?Still waters run deep? ? idiom meaning people who say very little often have very interesting and complicated personalities.
Would you like the definition of ?irony??
 

TerraMGP

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Mspencer... well, I suppose that you are not a Marvel fan. Point is that its no more nonsenical than most science fiction in this sense. It violates genetics, well so did mutants, then they implied that the mutant gene started out created by a race of big metal space gods. Hulk got gamma radiation and now he turns into a big growling brute that seems to have theoretically limitless strength. Your saying his story is bad because its the same as EVERY other Science fiction work. Now on to things like the long 'last words' those are not bad writing they just require you to not think of them in the strict terms of 'oh well this person is dying blah blah' but rather as in the overall point he is trying to make. Think of the B&B squad a bit. Hes trying to demonstrate yet again the horrors of war and what they do to people. Frankly I hated the cobras because they deviated from this. I WANTED to know more and I know many other people did too. Its not bad writing to try and showcase microcosms, to try and give a rhyme and reason to these seemingly bizarre characters and bring them to a more human level. Its all supposed to give you a sense of the kinds of motivations and hardships people have. Thats my whole point, your looking at it with too much focus on the main story and wanting to just plow though it. You have to take this kind of game like a sunday drive, not the Indie 500
 

TerraMGP

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Indigo_Dingo said:
Its been widely known for a long, LONG time before the release that people who weren't interested in the series already weren't welcome. That means that the game is giving us the complex plots brilliant characterization and full and total explanations the fans want. The game couldn't make it clearer if it actually said on the box "If you haven't played the other MGS games, then kindly fuck right off".
I honestly think thats about the best way to put it. You love it or hate it and All the people who say the writing is bad, I'm sorry people but you just hate it, nothing more.
 

shatnershaman

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Indigo_Dingo said:
Its been widely known for a long, LONG time before the release that people who weren't interested in the series already weren't welcome. That means that the game is giving us the complex plots brilliant characterization and full and total explanations the fans want. The game couldn't make it clearer if it actually said on the box "If you haven't played the other MGS games, then kindly fuck right off".
Really? Well a lot of those perfect score reviews said even if you had never play a MGS you would love it. I wasted $60 because of that.