Zero Punctuation: The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings

[jmarquiso]

I think part of the problem is the use of a laptop. I honestly can't imagine why he was playing a PC game on a laptop anyone who does serious gaming on a PC typically has a dedicated tower to do it on. I've always found Laptops to be inferior for gaming and typically not nearly as effective, given the small size of a keyboard and the whole issue with the heat and the fan's running full on the entire time.

He's stated before he doesn't HAVE a gaming rig to attempt most of this stuff on, the laptop is what he has at the moment.

Though it may be that it's poor (I would say different) design in that it doesn't spoonfeed you this stuff.

I felt the same way about Alpha Protocol and his review. His points are valid, but I found that most of those were valid game design choices as well (for example, checkpoints as opposed to saves cements the idea that you're committing to the path you're leading the character, rather than the "save, try this, reload, try that" pattern gamers love so much).

Haven't played Witcher 2, but I think the tutorial design was a deliberate choice to throw the player into the fire rather than have hi take baby steps. One of my complaints of the first Witcher is that you're fed an opening cut scene that makes our main character awesome, immediately followed by amnesia and supposedly making him "level up" by regaining his memory. What irked me is that he goes from an incredibly cool cinematic to flailing his sword over his head like an idiot.

Incidentally Jim Sterling hated the game on much the same lines, so now we know that Yahtzee and Sterling agree on certain things.

 

[jackdaniel0001]

Yeah you CAN read the manual, but why in this day in age should you have to.

And this, dear friend, is precisely the problem with this review and with gamers in general.

Maybe it's just the tinting on my nostalgia glasses, but I tend to find that a good manual explaining how the game works is a hell of a lot better way to play a game than having a slow short-bus section of the game at the start where controls are explained to you one at a time, like you just picked up a controller for the first time. We're big kids now (mostly) and there was nothing wrong with reading a little bit if it meant skipping the slow tutorial mode, so why the heck do games insist on dumbing themselves down for people?

There is nothing wrong with read the manual, but there is nothing right about it either. It's just better when a game is designed in such a way that you can just pick up and play. It's weird that people automatically think intuitive = easy, streamline = dumb, tediousness = challenging and complicated = complexity.

 

[jmarquiso]

Wow. Now PC gamers are treated, by the gaming community, the same way all gamers were not too long ago.....

I'm a PC Gamer, and I approve Yahtzee's review for what it is

 

[mrhateful]

an interesting philosophy i heard once is "If you CAN'T finish a game, you're playing it wrong, if you WON'T finish a game, then it's a bad game."

First of by that definition then Yahtzee was playing it wrong. Second people prefer different genres and some genres like RPG, just doesn't fall into the taste of everyone. Yahtzee not liking a hardcore RPG is as surprising as finding out that he needs air to breath.

Also the idea that because you won't finish a game then that is equivalent to being bad, is silly at best and stupid at worst. Lets for instance assume I don't like to play soccer then according to that philosophy then soccer is a "bad" sport. Or in video game terms lets assume I don't like Halo does that make it a bad game. No and anyone claiming that is ball faced lying.

Or to take up another truly great RPG, Baldurs Gate 2 which is probably one of the best games ever made. Yet a lot of people are having a hard time getting into to it because it requires something of the player.

Personally I think that games, you have to work for in order to enjoy is in long term much more enjoyable and repayable, then games that hand hold you through the entire thing.

 

[Macrobstar]

It's official, Yahtzee sucks at video games. He trashes every video game that he finds to difficult

Right its not just because the game was bloody awful then?

 

[loc978]

Wow. Now PC gamers are treated, by the gaming community, the same way all gamers were not too long ago.....

There's a good reason for that. A greater percentage of PC gamers now were gamers back then as well. We may as well be the new "old guard" of gaming, much as tabletop gamers were at the dawn of video games. It doesn't always hold true, but few of the XBox generation can stomach a game which challenges you without pitting you against another player.

 

[jmarquiso]

I really think this comes down to perceived poor design and deliberate design choices. The philosophy of throwing the player into the fire and having the player discover certain abilities must have been a choice. Some people seem to like it, it certainly hasn't detracted many gamers from learning how to play this one.

As someone stated in this thread earlier, just because something is a trope, doesn't mean that it MUST be used. The original Witcher broke away from traditional combat and RPG concepts, and it appears that the sequel followed suit by breaking away further (unlike the Mass Effect 2 idea of making something more accessible). I own the original myself, and I really could not get into it due to this, but it's obvious there are some gamers out there that the Witcher would please.

 

[Ishiro32]

...and I feel the same about Warhammer as I do about Fable, the Elder Scrolls, and the Witcher. 40K is fun, but plain ol' Warhammer is just another take on the same Tolkien fantasy world... with more Gods and sillier magic.
That, and I like the D20 system. Most other systems feel dumbed down (with the notable exception of a D10 storytelling system, but White Wolf isn't on trial here).

There is a diffrence in a warhammer world and D&D (or more Forgoten Realms which is most popular). I just had to point it out. I agree that 40k is fun as hell. There are intresting systems in Steampunk. (i don't remember name bacause i played it only once. Hard to find good GM for smaller systems)

 

[Joshimodo]

Great review as always... Also your description of a being a true gamer(aka pc gamer) was quite accurate. However one thing though the cut scenes are shippable just press "right mouse button".

Just a heads up - True gamers play all platforms.




Decent review, but as many have stated, a fair bit of it isn't actually true. You can skip cutscenes, for example. Also rolling, etc.


Agreed on the tutorial though. I liked that it was unforgiving and tough as nails to start with, but then that certainly isn't for everyone, and isn't particularly good game design to have the tutorial be harder than the entire rest of the game.

 

[Macrobstar]

I want to reiterate something Yahtzee though I love the humor in this review. I wish you would have played it to the end. As I think you went into the game hating it and thus not giving it a proper chance to impress you.

Now here is my own personal theory:

Yahtzee plays games all the time as it is his job so he no longer plays them for pleasure there-for the will to pull tough times is not there anymore, meaning its easier to take the quick way out and just say it was too hard or you didn't like the controls. Now this is nothing against Yahtzee as his reviews will still be good but they just won't have soul in it like his previous reviews had.

He didnt stop playing it because it was hard he stopped because it was long and he hated it

 

[jackdaniel0001]

There are games that are bad, and there are games that I hate,

an interesting philosophy i heard once is "If you CAN'T finish a game, you're playing it wrong, if you WON'T finish a game, then it's a bad game."

First of by that definition then Yahtzee was playing it wrong. Second people prefer different genres and some genres like RPG, just doesn't fall into the taste of everyone. Yahtzee not liking a hardcore RPG is as surprising as finding out that he needs air to breath.

Also the idea that because you won't finish a game then that is equivalent to being bad, is silly at best and stupid at worst. Lets for instance assume I don't like to play soccer then according to that philosophy then soccer is a "bad" sport. Or in video game terms lets assume I don't like Halo does that make it a bad game. No and anyone claiming that is ball faced lying.

Or to take up another truly great RPG, Baldurs Gate 2 which is probably one of the best games ever made. Yet a lot of people are having a hard time getting into to it because it requires something of the player.

Personally I think that games, you have to work for in order to enjoy is in long term much more enjoyable and repayable, then games that hand hold you through the entire thing.

There are games that are bad and then there are games that I hate. Big Rig Racing is a bad game, YZ just said he hates the game so he won't play it anymore and then listed a bunch of reasons why he hates it. I didn't get the impression that he thought the game was bad.

 

[mrhateful]

Anyway the game on the whole just feels really awful and I agree, just plain not fun. I wanted to play it, I really did, I sat through the bullshit for as long as I could, I came back to it a few times, but it's just not worth my nerves over the crappy combat when there's literally not been a single rewarding moment through several hours of gameplay and everything else was rage-inducing bollox.

You know there exists an easy setting right? Not everyone is meant to tame the beast that is a keyboard and mouse, and for those the easy setting was invented.

 

[MatsVS]

So this british knob couldn't even figure how to skip a perfectly skippable cut-scene and still wonders why he finds the game so hard. Reading the manual, you say? Sacré bleu!

The fucking hypocrite is first in lane to lament the current state of the gaming industry with all its moron-shooters, yet the minute a game dares being something more, he whines that it's not streamlined enough, too clustered, overwhelming, hard, etc.

Cynicism for its own sake is not comedy, sir.

 

[gring]

I love this review, I agree with every.single.thing. he said. It's like he was reading my mind.

And, no, I don't think it is hard, I just think it is broken. I got the perfectionist achievement within my first 30 minutes of gameplay, which is kill 10 people in a row without taking any damage, but I still had problems with the game because you can only learn the mechanics through death, lots and lots of death. And please don't even get me started with the prologue dragon scene, that is the very definition of broken.

Same as witcher 1, it has everything I would think that I would love in an RPG, but ultimately falls so flat on its face due to its ridiculously awful interface and combat that to this day remains unplayable.

 

[veloper]

Yahtzee never liked challenging games, so this comes as no surprise.

What is surprising is that he couldn't even play the game on a proper rig. Making vids about games is what he does, so he should have the equipment atleast.

 

[Macrobstar]

Yeah, it's funny how Yahtzee brought up how a lot of RPG games tend to be on the dark side, with everyone being rude toward one another and plenty of racists against other beings who aren't human. Anyways loved this review Yahtzee, grand job as always. A shame that the game doesn't seem fun.. I wish it would had because someday seeing you play a game and having the fun of your life will be the greatest joy to us all no sarcasm. Well we did get some of that when you played Minecraft and Duke Nukem but yeah besides that.

And silent hill, and saints row 2 and batman arkham asylam, and RDR, and Dead rising 2, and limbo, etc

 

[Mr. Omega]

Wow. Now PC gamers are treated, by the gaming community, the same way all gamers were not too long ago.....

No, gamers back then were treated like socially inept, shut-in, geeky losers with no life by everyone else. And certain people still try to portray them in that light.

Most gamers see PC Gamers as elitist, arrogant, snobs who look down on the rest of the gaming community. And I can probably find some very good evidence of it right here on this thread, if you want.

 

[Macrobstar]

So this british knob couldn't even figure how to skip a perfectly skippable cut-scene and still wonders why he finds the game so hard. Reading the manual, you say? Sacré bleu!

The fucking hypocrite is first in lane to lament the current state of the gaming industry with all its moron-shooters, yet the minute a game dares being something more, he whines that it's not streamlined enough, too clustered, overwhelming, hard, etc.

Cynicism for its own sake is not comedy, sir.

Its probably because he thought the game was shit

 

[solidstatemind]

I'm surprised nobody has commented: Witcher 2 is coming to Xbox 360 [http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2011/1690.html] at least, so place the PC snobbery aside.

My major complaint with the game was the total lack of direction-- I dunno, maybe the manual covers a lot of that, but since I got the Steam edition, the manual wasn't readily available. That, plus the difficulty curve seems absurdly uneven, particularly for a game where you can't set the difficult (I don't think).

Funny ZP tho. Best one in a while, IMHO. Particularly loved the finishing line.

Manual wasn't readily available? Every page in the steam store has a link to see the game manual and if you right click a game in your library there is typically an option to view the manual. That said I do feel your pain of having bought it on steam, I don't imagine you signed up for 9 gig patches when you bought it. I hope that's fixed soon.

Oh and you can set the difficulty at any time and it even asks you at the beginning explaining the differences between each of the settings.

Admittedly, it's not hard to get the manual itself, but alt-tabbing back and forth between the manual and the game is a pain in the ass. I suppose I could just print it out, but that'd be one less thing I could complain about...

 

[EPolleys]

Worst ZP in a while. Can essentially be summed up as "I think PC gamers suck and I don't posses basic cognitive functions or an atention span longer than 5 seconds". I know ZP isn't supposed to be taken seriously, but this one just rubbed me the wrong way...

Yeah your'e not not the only one, this episode just seemed like an excuse to troll PC gamers, or maybe he was just trolling elitists, who knows.

Other than that, why has he lately been playing pc games on his laptop, I thought he had a rig that could handle crysis? (if only barely)