Amercian arrested for Child Porn by Canadian customs who found manga on his computer.

[Rhojin]

Censorship of something deemed illegal is not related to the censorship of art.

Yes it is, its a form of expression that is deemed illegal. It is, therefore, an issue of freedom of expression.

So if the manga contains what I think it does, he should be let go even if he had drawn pictures of underage children in sexual acts because it can be construed as art?

There was a case here in America a few years ago where a mother was arrested and charged with posting nude photos of her five year old son on the internet. She claimed she was an artistic photographer and those pictures were used on her art site. The court ruled against her citing that nude images of children are not protected speech.

 

[SillyBear]

If there are no victims for an activity, then it isn't a crime. End of discussion.

You know, most incidents of speeding don't end up with any damage to property or person. Should only the few speeding incidents that result in death or injury be considered crimes?

 

[TCPirate]

I'm (technically) a member of amnesty international, and a law student who has spent a few months studying the Human Rights Act (UK) so I personally think that someone like this hiding behind human rights cheapens the whole notion of human rights. Cheapens, but does not totally devalue.

While this is true, Human Rights are Human Rights, The law is the law. By travelling to the country, he was accepting that he'd abide by their laws. He was too arrogant to learn the laws of other countries. That's the problem with western society. Most people believe "The Laws are the same everywhere, what's legal here, it legal there."

For instance, I live in the UK. In the UK it is totally legal to show public displays of affection, married or not.
In Saudi Arabia, It is considered offensive to show public displays of affect.

A British couple were imprisoned for going against this. I believe the Saudi Arabian government is totally within their rights to do this.

We make a massive uproar about Muslims (Not trying to say this happens a lot but I always see The Guardian on the table in the morning) using their own laws (I can't remember the name for it), and not abiding by ours. Yet when someone from our country breaks another countries law, we're all "THIS IS COMPLETELY OUTRAGEOUS! HOW CAN YOU PUNISH OUR CITIZEN LIKE THAT?!"

 

[electric_warrior]

Its a form of expression. Why can't I have freedom of expression?

Because the issue there isn't the expression itself, its the damage done to others- the infringement on their right to freedom from harm and a right to life.

No such damage exists in a case like this (aside from offending people)

 

[electric_warrior]

So if the manga contains what I think it does, he should be let go even if he had drawn pictures of underage children in sexual acts because it can be construed as art?

There was a case here in America a few years ago where a mother was arrested and charged with posting nude photos of her five year old son on the internet. She claimed she was an artistic photographer and those pictures were used on her art site. The court ruled against her citing that nude images of children are not protected speech.

I agree with you, if you go back to my earlier posts, and am arguing the exact same thing as you without the case knowledge to back it up. I was simply asserting that it an issue of freedom of expression, which I think you agree it is.

 

[bob1052]

Its a form of expression. Why can't I have freedom of expression?

Because the issue there isn't the expression itself, its the damage done to others- the infringement on their right to freedom from harm and a right to life.

No such damage exists in a case like this (aside from offending people)

Prove to me without a doubt that such images don't cause dangerous tendency that cause children to get abused.

 

[Saltyk]

Didn't the U.S. Congress try to pass a law a while back making depictions of child porn illegal? In effect making manga/hentai or drawn images illegal? I don't think it went anywhere, but it is worth noting that they tried. Though, I'm not sure I agree with the idea. Nor do I disagree with it. Kind of a gray area for me.

Do we really want to defend someone with drawings like that

Freedom of speech is important, but is it really that important? Not all expression is worthy of protection, this is an example of that.

Yes it is. From the people who draw offensive rule 34 images on the various chans, to the asshole's who protest soldiers funerals for no reason, to the guys who made Duke Nukem Forever, to the people who think Hitler had some good ideas. Either it's all ok or none of it is. If you really want free speech then you have to be willing to pay the price of letting people act like complete and utter twats if they so choose. Trust me, it's a very small price to pay. I may not agree with your views but I would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with you to defend your right to be a massive tool.

/cry

Thank you. I'm so happy to see someone agree with me.

That's not to say child porn is okay. That's not free speech as it does harm someone. In very terrible ways at that. And porn has no legal protection either, but it is not forbidden. I'm sure there are people that wish it was, but nuts to them. But like you said, either Duke Nukem and the funeral protesting dirt bags are okay or none of it is okay. Couldn't agree more.

 

[electric_warrior]

Prove to me without a doubt that such images don't cause dangerous tendency that cause children to get abused.

Prove to me that they do.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

It's a gray area. He might be a creep, but according to my legal compass, no real victim, no crime committed.

Maybe he should be recommended for therapy, still a free choice, nothing forced, but no prison time and no trial.

 

[Nimbus]

I'm just going to throw this down right here:

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

It sums up all the arguments pretty nicely. Anyone who is interested in cases like this should read it.

 

[Nick Lepperd]

There is no way that this will stand in court. Anyone with a clear thinking mind can see through the boredom of a custom's security.

Narrow mindedness and confusion are to blame here.

 

[SillyBear]

If there are no victims for an activity, then it isn't a crime. End of discussion.

You know, most incidents of speeding don't end up with any damage to property or person. Should only the few speeding incidents that result in death or injury be considered crimes?

It endangers the lives of others.

How does having manga depicting children in sexual acts put anyone in harm's way? What's so bad about it?

It's way, way more complicated than saying "these are fake children so it is all okay!". We just don't know if there truly is a victim or not. Japanese animated child pornography could be creating a dangerous environment for children. It could be sending out a dangerous rhetoric to its readers and influencing society in a thousand ways.

Or it could be completely harmless and only influences the fantasy world that it is set in.

We just don't know, and we can't take a side until we do.

 

[Nimbus]

Censorship of something deemed illegal is not related to the censorship of art.

Yes it is, its a form of expression that is deemed illegal. It is, therefore, an issue of freedom of expression.

So how about what I wrote before:

Spoiler: Everything in this is fake, don't throw a shit storm

If I want to walk down to my local coffee shop and shoot everyone because its my artistic expression the government shouldn't censor it (stop me)?

Its a form of expression. Why can't I have freedom of expression?

Yeah, that'd be illegal. However, you creating a comic book where you did that would obviously NOT be illegal.

 

[bob1052]

Prove to me without a doubt that such images don't cause dangerous tendency that cause children to get abused.

Prove to me that they do.

I have never claimed that they do, I just asked you to prove what you are claiming:

No such damage exists in a case like this (aside from offending people)

The burden of proof falls to you because you are making factual claims.

 

[TCPirate]

Prove to me without a doubt that such images don't cause dangerous tendency that cause children to get abused.

Prove to me that they do.

It's hard to say, the jury isn't out on that one yet. We are discovering more and more evidence that manga or hentai depicting children in indecent ways is an early warning sign to paedophilia.
While this isn't concrete, it is becoming more and more of a trend.

Like the way children / teenagers mutilating animals is an early warning sign for a murderer.

 

[lordlillen]

in the name of the knights who say ni not this shit again, a similar thing happened not to long ago in my country and it was equaly as stupid then actually i think it was stupider because it was about yu-gi-oh.