(As we all know) Women are not new to gaming.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Ban people from multiplayer that are offensive? Bar them from participating in their hobby because they aren?t nice?

Yep people get banned for racism they should be banned for sexism too. Look at half of the shit on this website

http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

Are you saying those aren't bad enough to be bannable?

Speaking of WOW I had a guy toss me out of his guild because I wouldn't 'cyber' with him. The guy had just had a baby with his gf who was in the same guild...

I mean what the actual fuck.

Oh and the ultimate counter to Tippy's argument http://www.geekgirlcon.com buh buh if 40% of women weren't gamers then how does this exist it must be MAGICKS!

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Nah man, you were on the 'call the hive-mind' side.

So because you can't actually produce anything where I actually said women's opinions didn't matter; you attribute my questioning of people's position as arguing in favor of the opposing side?

Also, because this is grade school, 'You started this! WWWWWWAAAAAHHHH!'

Once again, I'm going to ask for evidence of where I did something of this childish nature.

I don't follow the logic of posting a video with that title and not introducing it as either a joke or an abomination.

Because it wasn't my video, nor do I assume the intentions of someone else in making it, nor do I call something I may disagree with an abomination. The "logic" behind it is allowing others to view something as presented by the author without the bias of a viewer already coloring an alternative viewers perceptions of the video (which is a logical fallacy, of which that thread had a ridiculous amount of).

I'm going to ask you to stop attributing things to me you have no ability to substantiate.

Okay, I just saw Coolshark's post in response to this, and it kinda says a lot of the things I wanted to say. So I don't need to say them again. I agree with his/her complaints.

But that being said, let's tone this down real quick.

I'd like to start by apologizing. I wasn't being sensitive: this issue greatly upsets me on a personal level. Bullying and generalization hits close to home, so the post you quoted was made with a lot of frustration. This is something I and my friends deal with far to often. It can be very painful.

I apologize for what I said. Sincerely. I've actually done exactly what I didn't want to do and made the issue personal. And I'm sorry. I may hate some of the things you've said, but I don't know you as a person. I can allow myself to dismiss an argument, but not the person making it. That's inexcusable, and I'm sorry for the lack of respect.

I do still think the video was really insensitive, and perhaps you were showing it for less hostile reasons, but there was a lot of miscommunication going on. On my side of the fence as well, and I apologize for being part of the reason that happened. So sorry, again.

Now yes, I still do assert that some of the things you have said are insensitive to the issues at hand, but I've been insensitive as well. I hate hypocrisy, and I'm fully guilty of it here. So let's bury the hatchet. We can continue this debate, calmly. And if we do, perhaps we can do it in private chat.

Once again, I apologize. I got to emotional. This issue means a lot to me, and I've seen to many people generalized and treated poorly for the wrong reasons. But that does not excuse my behavior.

I hope you accept my apology.

Oh Overusedname. You're too good for us.

Most of the time men don't laugh with you though they just tell you to get back in the kitchen. Why is it so hard for some men to act like adults?

At least you said ?some men?, so I appreciate that. Questioning why a sexist dickhead is a sexist dickhead is like asking why the WBC is the way they are. You simply can?t reason with some people, so you either ignore them, or you protest with a bunch of gays across the street. Just don?t confuse men acting different with a bunch of men to come as a surprise. Everyone just wants to cut lose a little bit, and sadly video games are one of the few options where people can without getting into trouble. At least they used to be.

its not the video...its the [i/]attitude[/i]

to sit there and say "whats the problem bro?" while not "activly" sexist is still somwhat part of the problem, again, impling that there [i/]are[/i] no issues or that you should "really just not worry about it"

now granted, I don't get offended at everything, you have to pick your battles, like the "girlfriend mode" incident while "casually sexist" isn't worth the effort..and the Lara croft incident was overblown

but if there is an issue then I think it needs attention....not to be ignored or brushed off

of coarse then telling people what they should or shouldn't find offensive gets messy at the best of times.....

I?m going to ask this question in all seriousness, not as some quip comeback pecking for a fight; but what exactly are you going to do about it? Ban people from multiplayer that are offensive? Bar them from participating in their hobby because they aren?t nice?

I?ll accept that some people take issue with various slurs and whatnot, but what do you actually propose?

Actually, if you want some real good answers, Extra Credits actually did an episode a while ago about that. Some really good ideas. One was about keeping track of how often a player was muted by others. Say like in the span of a week you get muted by say over 50 other player, or whatever, then from on you enter into online games muted to all players. They also talked about showing on someone's profile how many times they have been muted to help other players decide if they want to unmute them. For example, say one player has been muted over 1,000 times. It's probably a safe bet that he/she isn't saying anything worth your time. The video goes into more detail, and other methods.

Apparently, some game companies are planning on using these methods in the future. Hopefully the very near future.

 

[ms_sunlight]

Edit: Another thing: When you broached the topic of Final Fantasy series, you opened up the door to the specific questions I asked you about my favorite scenes in the series, which you edited out, along with your own references to the final fantasy series. It's because girls do things like this to prove points, to the world, that they are discriminateda gainst in games.

I can't tell if you're a really dedicated troll or being genuine.

Actually yes, I can tell you in intimate detail about FF6. I've played the official English version 5 times, and the fan translation that aims to be closer to the original Japanese twice. My favourite part of the plot? Shadow's story. I love trying to get all the dreams in World of Balance before he randomly leaves you, then following his story as it unfolds, as you learn more about his connection to Relm, and finally his words to Interceptor during his suicide / refusal to leave in the end sequence. It makes me cry. The main theme of the game to my mind is letting go of your past. Every character has to address their past and move beyond it to find new hope at some point, ending with Terra letting go of her Esper heritage on the airship as Kefka's island falls.

The conversation I'm talking about - one you may never have had but which almost all women gamers will recognise - is the one where the man stops asking immediately you reveal details that show you're not a poseur, the one where it becomes apparent that he doesn't want to talk about that moment when Forever Rachel plays and you watch the broken phoenix esper bring her back just for a moment to say goodbye, he just wants to catch you out as a liar and a fraud.

 

[Easton Dark]

Speaking of WOW I had a guy toss me out of his guild because I wouldn't 'cyber' with him. The guy had just had a baby with his gf who was in the same guild...

He was... trying to... cheat on his girlfriend with... someone he may never meet? Who has the ability to contact his girlfriend immediately? Uh... I'd probably laugh if I was in that situation. Wow.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Speaking of WOW I had a guy toss me out of his guild because I wouldn't 'cyber' with him. The guy had just had a baby with his gf who was in the same guild...

He was... trying to... cheat on his girlfriend with... someone he may never meet? Who has the ability to contact his girlfriend immediately? Uh... I'd probably laugh if I was in that situation. Wow.

I was nice enough to not send her the pictures of his dick that he emailed me. I don't want to ruin his life.

But jesus I felt sorry for her.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Yep people get banned for racism they should be banned for sexism too. Look at half of the shit on this website

http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

You know, I've heard of that site but never actually visited it until today. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed, with all the hype I expected something with a little more flare to it. But at least 1 thing did get me to chuckle, so thanks for that.

Are you saying those aren't bad enough to be bannable?

Isn't this why they implemented an ignore feature?

I'm against the precedence banning people for being offensive sets in any medium.

Oh and the ultimate counter to Tippy's argument http://www.geekgirlcon.com buh buh if 40% of women weren't gamers then how does this exist it must be MAGICKS!

Is it just me, or did anyone else find the burlesque thing fucking hysterical?

 

[Easton Dark]

I was nice enough to not send her the pictures of his dick that he emailed me. I don't want to ruin his life.

But jesus I felt sorry for her.

That is one advantage of being a guy gamer.

I can say I've never gotten dicks in my mail. Yet.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

So you think sexual harassment is funny?

 

[Jun_Jun]

I'm not too sure how to start this basically gonna put into words my experience with gaming when growing up and up till now, here I go..

Spoiler

I'd say I've been a (fem)gamer quite a long time ever since I was young,(about 6 or 7?)when my family got our first console which was the Sega master system, I wasn't really allowed to touch the console I was only allowed to watch my brothers play sonic, wonderboy and alex the kid, and usually it wouldn't take too long for them to punch me or kick me out of the room, it didn't help that my parents also enforced this by having the attitude that as a girl I should be out doing girl things and not inside playing awesome ass videogames. (I mean hell I wasn't allowed to join the Scouts with my brothers and learn to skin a kangaroo with my teeth, instead I had to go to girl guides(girlscouts) and sell a butt-ton of cookies)I remember once or twice getting up super early in the morning before the sun rose so I could play Sonic in secret and completely crapping myself imagining what would happen if I got caught. I guess you could say that I sort of 'idolised' gaming, it was this big forbidden fruit that everyone else seemed to get a bite of except me. My family eventually got a N64 I actually was allowed to play for about 20mins every now and then, still got kicked out of the console's resident room for trying to watch though. Eventually my family decided that they should get a home PC and my brothers got Half-Life this was something I was definitely not allowed to watch (I can get that I was about 8 or 9 when that came out it was a bit scary)so I used to sit in my bedroom with my ear pressed against the wall trying to hear what was going on, excited that there was spoken dialogue in the game so I could piece what was happening. I still feel incredibly nostalgic when I hear certain Half-Life sound effects (such as the sound when you pick up health or this

Spoiler

I guess this would be it since it is the loudest thing in that game..

). Eventually my brothers got their own TVs and set ups in their own rooms, both got jobs and bought themselves an xbox, which I ended up missing that particular console generation. Things didn't really pick up until I got into high school and I met a nice bunch of 'gamer dudes' we hung out and I used to visit their houses after school most days and play old console games (such as ocarina of time, mariokart, banjo kazooie, super smash bros and mortal kombat). I played console games at their houses or sat on MSN and chatted about games, in a strange turn of events I visited Scotland (my family's homeland) and some Cousins introduced me to an online game called Guild Wars they told me if I bought the game back in Aus I could play online with them, soon after returning home I told my eldest brother who in a strange turn of kindness bought me the game, I rarely got to play though.(and I don't think I ever played with my cousin) Eventually my final year of high school came around and I swore off games and other distractions and focused on studies, after graduating I was 'free' I got a job and started playing games on a daily basis and have never looked back, I got back into Guild Wars and found a wonderful guild who showed me what online gaming could be like if everyone was a bit more civil, and I branched out from there, I bought a Wii, got a steam account (got the orange box) and played the crap out of the Half-Life series, and pretty much tried any game I could get my hands on. I guess you could blame my obsession with gaming on my family, they're the ones who tried to discourage me by telling me it was a 'boys only club' and I would never fit in and would only get in the way, and it was horribly unbecoming of me and antisocial. I play MMO's and FP's nightly with guilds/clans and I have made quite a few lifelong friends so sorry for this massive wall of text thanks for reading if you've made it this far. ^^

I will also add that irl I do get strange reactions from people, mostly women who refuse to talk to me ever again after finding out that I (/gasp) enjoy games! More than one who've gone as far as saying I'm gender confused(yeah, don't ask). Although I have said in quite a few previous posts that I tend to have masculine personality traits, I've actually found it very hard to keep any female friends because most of the time they just think we're too different to possibly have anything in common, so all my friends are male and I'm proud and honoured to say that they treat me as an equal, like another male, not as this strange new visitor from another world that must be treated differently lest they insult my people and their customs, and really I think that's all female gamers want, I know I'm happy with it.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I was nice enough to not send her the pictures of his dick that he emailed me. I don't want to ruin his life.

But jesus I felt sorry for her.

That is one advantage of being a guy gamer.

I can say I've never gotten dicks in my mail. Yet.

I have had pictures of at least 4 guys dicks over the years with no input from me other than trying to make a new friend.

 

[Spearmaster]

[
I just don't see why we have to support "female gamers" cant we just support gamers?

I can get behind that. Well...I am. I guess it's just that we have to acknowledge OTHER PEOPLE don't see it that way, so we need to make different demographics feel welcome.

Gender does NOT matter to me, but I acknowledge that it matters to other people. I hope that makes sense.

Also generalizing female gamers as one entity makes the same mistakes the video in question did. I have solved the problem for myself and have stopped calling myself a gamer altogether because these days there are more negatives associated with the term than positives. Every girl can play video games no questions asked but when you use the term "girl gamer" it starts a firestorm and I want no part of it.

Semantics and the internet certainly don't have a healthy relationship.

Avoiding labels is certainly ideal.

I hope it didn't seem like I was generalizing, cause I made it clear from the get go that I know 'some women do this, but some don't. Some game for pleasure, some don't, some are new, some are old, etc.' But I don't think that comment was directed at me.

Nope just a cautionary statement to everyone, I did not think you were generalizing, especially the way the video did, every person games for a certain reason, I know women who wear gamer gear, talk the talk but when asked they don't actually play many video games their boyfriend does or they just like the culture of it, I know others who don't look the part at all but are more hardcore gamers than I, so really its an individual thing not a girl gamers vs boy gamers thing like its made out to be sometimes.

We need to look at the gamer not the gender.

 

[Easton Dark]

I have had pictures of at least 4 guys dicks over the years with no input from me other than trying to make a new friend.

I'm sure those relationships are flourishing.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Omg that story I feel so bad for you D: hugs x

I didn't have a brother I was just completely obsessed with games from age 3 and my dad was really kind on that he got me things for cheap from people he knew (we weren't very rich) I can't imagine being prevented from playing games like you were it must have been awful. I felt sick reading that story because I think you had the same reaction as I did when I first played space invaders when you saw the master system being played.

 

[Jun_Jun]

I was nice enough to not send her the pictures of his dick that he emailed me. I don't want to ruin his life.

But jesus I felt sorry for her.

That is one advantage of being a guy gamer.

I can say I've never gotten dicks in my mail. Yet.

I have had pictures of at least 4 guys dicks over the years with no input from me other than trying to make a new friend.

Ugh I've been there far too many times Butterfly :/
Even people I was friends with back in highschool kinda creeped on me and sent me some photos after I tried striking up conversation trying to catch up.
I'm lucky to not have too many guys online email images of their genitalia, then again I'm in a pretty cemented couple of groups whom I've known for a few years, even when I play certain online games without friends I usually stay 'non-gendered' and quiet unless I absolutely have to.

 

[Jun_Jun]

snip

Omg that story I feel so bad for you D: hugs x

I didn't have a brother I was just completely obsessed with games from age 3 and my dad was really kind on that he got me things for cheap from people he knew (we weren't very rich) I can't imagine being prevented from playing games like you were it must have been awful. I felt sick reading that story because I think you had the same reaction as I did when I first played space invaders when you saw the master system being played.

Wow! such kindness!
yeah my reaction was pretty much this

Spoiler

sorry for the pony video but that's the best emote I could find for that moment

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I have had pictures of at least 4 guys dicks over the years with no input from me other than trying to make a new friend.

I'm sure those relationships are flourishing.

Yeah it kind of made it very awkward.

I too can't stand the 'justify yourself as a gamer' thing men do. But it's funny when I do it because this tends to happen.

SNIP

AMG Pinkie Pie is best pony.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

So you think sexual harassment is funny?

Oh come on I thought we were passed this shit.

Let me share the "about" section on that website...

Some players like to send creepy, disturbing, insulting, degrading and/or just plain rude messages to other online players, usually women.

We think this is funny.

Why do they send them? There are a few theories. But instead of getting offended, we offer a method for people to share these messages and laugh together.

...perhaps you should address your concerns with them.

You don't get to set the limitations for acceptable comedy.

I have had pictures of at least 4 guys dicks over the years with no input from me other than trying to make a new friend.

That's it? Fuck, I'm beating you, and I'm a dude. Best one was when the guy blured out the face of his dog, but not his face or his cock. At least he loved his dog enough to protect him/her from strange men he sends pictures of his dick to! HA!

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

SNIP
That's it? Fuck, I'm beating you, and I'm a dude. Best one was when the guy blured out the face of his dog, but not his face or his cock. At least he loved his dog enough to protect him/her from strange men he sends pictures of his dick to! HA!

Somehow I don't think that was sent to you in the same context.

snip

So any guy who isn't sexist is just white knighting...that term is so much bs.

 

[False Nobility]

snipl

Woah, how did you get here? How did you join a forum that isn't 4chan without being filleted? Jesus christ.

Anyone who uses virgin as an insult probably doesn't have much of worth to provide, bro XD Take a good hard look at yourself, and then the person ya just insulted.

Who looks like the one who actually has real women in their life?

Way to stay classy dude. Yikes. Reported.