Banned from Eve Online or ''Why I'm considering to sue CCP''.

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

...

Maybe you should wait until they actually, you know, let you know why you were banned.

They'll probably email you something soon.

Yeah, but when you spend 3 years to build something, be it an avatar on anything else, you just want to consider every possibility right off the bat.

 

[ChaoticLegion]

Please read the whole post before replying, not that I can enforce that but it might prevent you to write about issues I've already addressed and you might see some clarifications.

Also, what ever your opinion is, be constructive, saying ''THIS IS JUST A GAME'' doesn't add anything to the conversation. Develop your thoughts a bit.

This is the MMO player's worst nightmare.

Today, at noon, an hour before heading back to college for my 2 hour philosophy class, I decided to check on my skills and corp mates in Eve Online.

I click on the Eve Online shortcut, I logged in, then I almost fell out of my chair.

This is what I see.

[http://img69.imageshack.us/i/permabaneveonlinek.jpg/]

''Permabanned!?'' I shout to myself.

I lay there, almost sitting on the floor. I gather up my thoughts, I try to analyze the situation.

I see that the ban notice registered that the last login to my account was yesterday.

I did not connect to Eve Online yesterday.

I begin to suspect that my account was hacked, but I pray to god that it was just a human error.

I go on the official website to try to connect to my account, to check if I'm really banned. I can't connect, so I really am permabanned.

I searched ''Banned from eve online'' on google. I find out a few places I can contact CCP about this. I also notice that only a very grave offence can lead to a permaban without any prior warning to a person who did not break the rules before.

I sent CCP a petition on the website and mails on both support@eve-online.com and mods@ccpgames.com

While I write the petition and letters to CCP, I start to have a headache.

Here is one of the letters :

''I just got wrongly banned from the game. I do not exactly know why, but apparently I breached the EULA. The window telling me why I was banned also told me I connected to the game yesterday, which I did not. I think my account got hijacked yesterday (the last connection) and the person who did this acted in such a was that he caught the attention of a moderator. Please, I've played the game for 3 years, and getting wrongfully banned is like a slap on the face. Please investigate the issue. I've always been an exemplary player. I don't want all the work and relationship I've build over the last years to go to waste because of an error.

At least give me the full reason for the permaban as soon as possible. I am almost physically sick form this whole ordeal. Please, answer quickly!''

Now I start to have some nausea.

I go on another forum, in a thread related to eve online and ask one of the guys to be kind enough to contact my CEO and tell him I was permabanned and that I was trying to find out why and get my account back. A guy named Kusakaze was kind enough to send a mail to my corporation.

Feeling sick, I go lie down on my bed. A few minutes later I go to the bathroom and vomit. I go back to my bed and collapse in exhaustion.

A few hours later, I wake up. My father just came back from work. I explained to him the whole situation. I told him how helpless I felt.

My father's brother is a lawyer. I thought about him.

I was still pumped from the whole thing.

I told my father : ''If CCP doesn't answer within a week or refuses to give back my account, can we contact your brother?''

''We'll see how the whole thing goes first, he said to me, but I understand how passionate your are for this game. I've seen you play it so many times. If nothing happens with that company, we'll maybe go to the small claims court.''

Suing CCP would be, of course, my last resort, but I'm just too darned afraid of loosing 3 years worth of work not to consider every possibility.

Just to make it clear, I just finished reading the EULA and I can strongly claim that I NEVER BREACHED THE EULA.

I'll keep you posted on the progress of this whole mess.

What do you think? Did anything similar happen to you?

UPDATE 1 :

Suing people= wrong.
Suing people over a video game = hilariously wrong.

You are suffering from being a dumb kid and not having proper priorities in life -syndrome. I mean getting upset to the point of sickness over a silly video game? I recommend you calm down, look at this from an outsiders point of view, and get a fucking grip.

For me, it's more like CCP stole my money and did not give me any good reason for it. I payed CCP to play their game and without any reason or warning, they remove this service from me.

Like I said, I was pumped. I really hope that CCP will fix the issue soon enough.

The thing here is that I was not just temporarily banned, like people under investigation for hack or ISK trading are, or other minor offences. This is a permaban. I am shocked, as a consumer, that CCP did not send me a prior warning for what I did (I'm still wondering about that), did not even take into account the fact that I am an old player that never breached the rules before (and still did not) and finally did not even give me any details on the reason of the ban.

I do not want to sue CCP, I'm just saying it's a last resort. People might say it's silly, but by banning me for no reason, and if they don't unban me, CCP effectively destroyed all the long hours of work I've put into even online, hours I've paid for with the relatively small salary a student gets from working. Of course, I live at my parent's house since my college is like 15 minutes away if I walk, but I have to work for my clothes and any other luxury. This is not like Guild Wars where you pay once to play the game. Don't forget there is a monthly subscription. If the ban if final, I won't be reimbursed for last payment either.

Dude? Seriously? You got physically sick FROM A FUCKING VIDEO GAME? Get a grip. Also, you have no legitimate claim to sue CCP over.

I should clarify.

I have a tendency to get headaches and to have nausea when I am tired, thirsty and stressed.
The first two conditions where already fulfilled, but learning of the permaban filled the last condition.

UPDATE 2 :

Yes, perhaps I am overreacting, and it is probable CCP will give my account back, but I fear that the permaban thing makes it final. That's the silly part. CCP just doesn't give enough information for me to say ''Well, I've done what I could for now''. I really don't know what happened to my avatar or all my stuff in eve online.

Yes, I also realize that ''Suing CCP'' sounds stupid, but that doesn't stop me for considering this possibility as a last resort. Also, I am fully aware that it might not be possible to sue CCP at all , or that the whole procedure may cost too much. But if I sue, (and as I'm saying, I probably won't), I won't ask for a ridiculous amount of money. I would just want my account back. And yes, I know is sounds ridiculous, and it probably is. But that would be a ridiculous solution to a ridiculous problem anyway.

As I said, this is a small possibility and I certainly don't want it to happen. I'm 90% sure CCP will fix the issue (I hope), but how long it will take is the big question.

UPDATE 3 :

So you skip college for your 2 hour philosophy class because you got banned from a game, then your father comes home and instead of grounding you he says "OK son, we might sue them". Fairly odd parent.

Heh, I might have to do another update. Thanks for pointing this out.

Another clarification : I still went to college, swearing to myself while walking all the way to my class. I just did not get more time to study for the small test we had that afternoon.

And for my parents, they are odd enought, but not in the way you imply. My father didn't guarantee me anything, but he told me that he might ask a few questions of two to his brother who's a laywer. If CCP refuse unban me, and if the case can possibly be won (remember, the laws in Quebec have heavily pro-consumer, more than in the U.S.A. or even the rest of Canada), we could go to the small claims court.

Irreguardless of the situation, I'd have expected that under the contract you signed to play EVE they would have an excemption clause preventing litigation in court... plus, it would be cheaper and more likely to provide you with a favourable outcome if you attempted some form of ADR first.

 

[mrtenk]

This is the very most intense forum post I have ever seen. In fact, it was so intense it actually was kind of disturbing. So rather then just go on saying it's just a videogame, I'm going to ask you one simple question.

Have you ever thought about seeing a therapist?

It's clear that you are psychologically addicted and it's causing you serious physical pain. You may need to put the game down for a bit so you can get in touch with the things that really make you happy, and not the things that you feel obligated to use because of some false sense of responsibility.

puking, panicking, and threatening to sue over the idea of a permaban is definitely not natural. Rather then going back to EVE I would strongly suggest you get in touch with yourself and seek help for your problem.

 

[MasterSqueak]

Snip.

Ouch.

That's got to suck. And I also hate how 95 percent of the comments clearly are from people who didn't read the whole damn post.

As an EVE player, I know how horrible it would feel to lose even a week of progress, much less ALL of it.

I hope you get things figured out. Tell me if there's anything I can do to help.

This is the very most intense forum post I have ever seen. In fact, it was so intense it actually was kind of disturbing. So rather then just go on saying it's just a videogame, I'm going to ask you one simple question.

Have you ever thought about seeing a therapist?

It's clear that you are psychologically addicted and it's causing you serious physical pain. You may need to put the game down for a bit so you can get in touch with the things that really make you happy, and not the things that you feel obligated to use because of some false sense of responsibility.

puking, panicking, and threatening to sue over the idea of a permaban is definitely not natural. Rather then going back to EVE I would strongly suggest you get in touch with yourself and seek help for your problem.

He's been playing it for three years, it's understandable that sudden breaking of his schedule would cause him to suffer from drawbacks and sickness.

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

First off, they never tell you why you were banned, ever. my brother was banned from final fantasy online for using the inspect button (it comes with the game) they have no real right to ban you, legally speaking, they can't even claim intellectual proprety, examples include courts laughing game companies out of court over gold and or item theft. these items do not really exist, and theft of said items is not illegal. for all they say game companies have fewer rights then they claim to have, and that is that. Sue if you want to, i doubt the company wants any negative press on the issue, i am an MMORPG gamer, and i have been in trouble but never banned for more than a few days, my funniest warning was for ueing the name "lilwhore" for a halfling in EQ, i told the GM's i chose the name because i saw someone with the last name "elfsodomizer" (last names have to be manually verified by a GM for approval)

they simply don't tell you why you were banned, they just say something along the lines of you have violated the agreement. Considering some GMs have been caught cheating in games like EQ, the whole concept of policing the game seems pointless, as the GMs in question weren't even gicen a stern talking to.

Yeah, I don't think I would've cared so much if it was a ban and not a permaban. I mean, CCP could've said they banned me for a week and say it was only to investigate my account and to make everyone's experience in eve, and I would've believed them. It's completely different when it comes to a permaban. If I have to sue them, I hope they'll just want to settle this out of court and give me my account back, along with maybe one extra months of subscription for the time I lost during the ban.

Remember people, if it was only a ban, I wouldn't have started a whole thread about this. The question is : why a permaban?

 

[Kubanator]

EULA says we can cut off your right to play for any reason. No lawsuit would ever come out of that.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

No, you agree to them having the right to whatever the hell they please when you join and all that shit. I wish you could just easily fix this but I really think negotiation with them is your only option.

And this is what I think really, really needs to change. License agreements are unfair at least (you pay them and they absolve themselves of all responsibility of ANYTHING that occurs as a result of use of their product), and outright abuse of the legal system at worst. Somebody needs to champion consumer rights here in America, but that isn't going to happen as long as piracy remains industry's response to everything. It's like how when you talk about civilian casualties in Iraq, folks say "terrorists" like that excuses everything.

Thanks for your input on this conversation. This is what I would call a weighted and constructive comment. As for the lawsuit, if it ever gets to the point I might need to sue CCP, (and I say it again, only as a last resort), the consumer protection laws in Quebec work differently from the rest of the world, even from the rest of Canada. Those laws are considerably tougher (for the companies I mean) than in any other place. Since the lawsuit would be filed in the small claims court (lawsuits involving less than 7000 Canadian dollar I think, I paid in total about 400$ over the last 3 years), I would be possible to oblige CCP to either reimburse me that 400$ or unban my account. Also, in the small claims court, you directly go to a Judge to plead your case and they decide if your claim is legitimate or not. Forget the courtroom filled with people and a jury, this matter will probably take 10, 15 minutes to be either approved or not. Like you said, their licence agreement might not hold out in court. In Quebec, it is legitimate to sue a company for a service they got paid for but did not provide, EULA or not, if fundamentally the consumer did not do anything wrong. So the question would be if CCP does not unban me and I sue them, could CCP prove I hacked their game or talked trash about the devs or the mods? Personally I know the answer to that question, since I got wrongfully banned. Of couse, this is all hypothetical, and I hope that tomorrow I will open my mails and at least get a reason for my ban, or them saying they are currently investigating the matter. That's all I want.

Even if your cause is completely just and you have mountains of evidence for your case, expect it to be difficult/expensive going making a case. One of my relatives was obviously murdered, and there are still all kinds of problems getting the killers tried, despite that they administered something like 5 times the lethal dose of morphine to the guy, and were selling off his stuff the day after he died.

 

[TimeLord]

Suing people= wrong.
Suing people over a video game = hilariously wrong.

You are suffering from being a dumb kid and not having proper priorities in life -syndrome. I mean getting upset to the point of sickness over a silly video game? I recommend you calm down, look at this from an outsiders point of view, and get a fucking grip.

For me, it's more like CCP stole my money and did not give me any good reason for it. I payed CCP to play their game and without any reason or warning, they remove this service from me.

Like I said, I was pumped. I really hope that CCP will fix the issue soon enough.

The thing here is that I was not just temporarily banned, like people under investigation for hack or ISK trading are, or other minor offences. This is a permaban. I am shocked, as a consumer, that CCP did not send me a prior warning for what I did (I'm still wondering about that), did not even take into account the fact that I am an old player that never breached the rules before (and still did not) and finally did not even give me any details on the reason of the ban.

I do not want to sue CCP, I'm just saying it's a last resort. People might say it's silly, but by banning me for no reason, and if they don't unban me, CCP effectively destroyed all the long hours of work I've put into even online, hours I've paid for with the relatively small salary a student gets from working. Of course, I live at my parent's house since my college is like 15 minutes away if I walk, but I have to work for my clothes and any other luxury. This is not like Guild Wars where you pay once to play the game. Don't forget there is a monthly subscription. If the ban if final, I won't be reimbursed for last payment either.

You arnt paying them now are you? You payed for what you played and thats it. You need to calm down and go out into the sunlight

EULA says we can cut off your right to play for any reason. No lawsuit would ever come out of that.

And this

 

[Maze1125]

EULA says we can cut off your right to play for any reason. No lawsuit would ever come out of that.

A judge to declare such EULAs to be unfair. No contract, especially a generic consumer contract, is absolute.

 

[smallharmlesskitten]

...Your being an idiot. That is all. You agreed to their rules and they decided to kick you out of the game that THEY own. Not you own, you brought nothing.

You have no case anyway

 

[Mr.Something]

after not playing WoW for a week I checked my e-mail and saw "Account Closure" and went WTF?
reason: Economic Exploitation
I sent them an e-mail back saying that I hadn't been on for a week and they restored my account on monday, but all my items and money were gone on all my chars, which took another week to get back with in-game petitions

I didn't react the same way as you, but I know the feeling. I played WoW in the F&F alpha for the original and ever since (about 5 years now) and to lose 5 years worth of effort at the drop of a hat is very frustrating.

to the trolls: gtfo. Lets say you took a crappy old beat-up car and worked on it every weekend for a few years and fixed up the body, bought and installed new parts, fixed any leaks, rewired the electrical system, and gave it a new paint job with flames on the side. you drive it down to the gas station, go inside to buy an energy drink and some smokes, then look outside and its gone. you find out later that your car was used in a bank robery and was shot up and totaled in a high-speed chase. this is what happened to his account.

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

This is the very most intense forum post I have ever seen. In fact, it was so intense it actually was kind of disturbing. So rather then just go on saying it's just a videogame, I'm going to ask you one simple question.

Have you ever thought about seeing a therapist?

It's clear that you are psychologically addicted and it's causing you serious physical pain. You may need to put the game down for a bit so you can get in touch with the things that really make you happy, and not the things that you feel obligated to use because of some false sense of responsibility.

puking, panicking, and threatening to sue over the idea of a permaban is definitely not natural. Rather then going back to EVE I would strongly suggest you get in touch with yourself and seek help for your problem.

No, it's no such a bad comment he made, but it,s a bit like that Xbox player that tried to get the highest gamerscore. Apparently MS reset his gamerscore because he might have been a hacker, since his gamerscore was going up too fast. Needless to say he was pretty angry. They may have been some brag points, but for him, it was his favourite hobby. I think I felt like him when I discovered my permaban. Now if unlike him I could get my own ''gamerscore'' back.

Can sombody look for that story, I can't find it on GamePolitics.com

 

[MasterSqueak]

Wow...after reading all of it I can safely say.
You are pathetic, Vomitting and planning to sue because your account got banned? Regardless of how much work was done on it, it was just a game. Bitching on the forums about it isnt going to do anything, niether will sueing them.

Withdrawal can cause nausea and vomiting, and he spent 500 bucks and months of playtime on it, just for some douche of a hacker to get him permabanned.

Suing people= wrong.
Suing people over a video game = hilariously wrong.

You are suffering from being a dumb kid and not having proper priorities in life -syndrome. I mean getting upset to the point of sickness over a silly video game? I recommend you calm down, look at this from an outsiders point of view, and get a fucking grip.

For me, it's more like CCP stole my money and did not give me any good reason for it. I payed CCP to play their game and without any reason or warning, they remove this service from me.

Like I said, I was pumped. I really hope that CCP will fix the issue soon enough.

The thing here is that I was not just temporarily banned, like people under investigation for hack or ISK trading are, or other minor offences. This is a permaban. I am shocked, as a consumer, that CCP did not send me a prior warning for what I did (I'm still wondering about that), did not even take into account the fact that I am an old player that never breached the rules before (and still did not) and finally did not even give me any details on the reason of the ban.

I do not want to sue CCP, I'm just saying it's a last resort. People might say it's silly, but by banning me for no reason, and if they don't unban me, CCP effectively destroyed all the long hours of work I've put into even online, hours I've paid for with the relatively small salary a student gets from working. Of course, I live at my parent's house since my college is like 15 minutes away if I walk, but I have to work for my clothes and any other luxury. This is not like Guild Wars where you pay once to play the game. Don't forget there is a monthly subscription. If the ban if final, I won't be reimbursed for last payment either.

You arnt paying them now are you? You payed for what you played and thats it. You need to calm down and go out into the sunlight

"Go out into the sunlight"?

That's it?

Months of playtime made worthless by a stupid hacker, and he should just forget it and move on?

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

EULA says we can cut off your right to play for any reason. No lawsuit would ever come out of that.

A judge to declare such EULAs to be unfair. No contract, especially a generic consumer contract, is absolute.

This will be added to first post.

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

Suing people= wrong.
Suing people over a video game = hilariously wrong.

You are suffering from being a dumb kid and not having proper priorities in life -syndrome. I mean getting upset to the point of sickness over a silly video game? I recommend you calm down, look at this from an outsiders point of view, and get a fucking grip.

There are plenty of cases where a civil suit is preferable to other methods individuals would take to resolve their disputes. People shouldn't just roll over in a conflict and neither should they necessarily use guns, fire, or poisons. In modern society there are not many avenues of legal nonviolent recourse, so a suit is completely acceptable if other avenues have been pursued.

For those that say a EULA is airtight, perhaps you should check out Second Life's legal history. My apologies if anyone previously posted that point.

It's ok, a reminder is always welcomed.

 

[island.rascal]

...

Maybe you should wait until they actually, you know, let you know why you were banned.

They'll probably email you something soon.

Yeah, but when you spend 3 years to build something, be it an avatar on anything else, you just want to consider every possibility right off the bat.

I'm sorry...but seriously?!?! It's a game, get over it. You want a sadface story? I used to dump about $150 USD into Second Life a month then the avatar I had for 4 years got banned because of some bullshit...you know what I did? I GOT OVER IT.

What I'm trying to say is...well...QQ Fatty...reroll...

 

[MasterSqueak]

...Your being an idiot. That is all. You agreed to their rules and they decided to kick you out of the game that THEY own. Not you own, you brought nothing.

You have no case anyway

You're being an asshole, that is all.

Agreeing to a EULA doesn't excuse the company for refusing to restore his account, when it was banned because someone hacked it.

AND, he said that he was only going to sue as a last resort.