Bill to legalize Marijuana introduced in California

[Ezekel]

Marijuana has no legitimate reason to be legalized as anything but prescriptive medication. Recreational drugs are for people who fail at life. This includes both cigarettes and alcohol, well at least when taken in more than moderate quantities.

...

Really? Do you ever go out drinking? How about coffee? Smoke? Those are all recreational drugs, in essence. Many, many successful people who did not "fail at life" smoked pot and used other mind-altering substances. I could easily name dozens and dozens of artist, musicians, writers and even scientists who at least smoked cannabis. John Lenon, Carl Sagan, Alexander Dumas, Bill Maher, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Bill Bradley to name a few, have all admitted to at least experimenting with pot or hashish.

Any substance, legal or not, can be abused and cause dependency. The cause is not the substance, it is the user. Don't blame drugs for one's failures, blame the individual. That is personal responsibility.

EDIT: This thread will probably be locked soon....

No I never go out drinking, I don't drink coffee though I did drink a lot of soda but I am off it now. I don't smoke either.

I don't care how many people you can give me that used marijuana and are successful, your missing the point. They would all have been just as good in their respective field if they never smoked, maybe even better.

The "failing at life" bit was to emphasize that relying on a drug for fun or entertainment is dumb. Relying on a drug to help cope is also dumb, unless the drug has been prescribed by a physician of some kind and is being monitored to make sure that you do not harm yourself or others. Naturally there are some drugs that do not need such strict control over them, but you still need to be reading the instructions at least.

Also, yes any substance can be abused, I never claimed otherwise. Using marijuana or any drug for recreational use is abusing it. I am not blaming the drug, its an inanimate object, it doesn't do anything. I am merely stating that it does not belong on any store shelves except the pharmacies.

 

[Yog Sothoth]

Marijuana has no legitimate reason to be legalized as anything but prescriptive medication. Recreational drugs are for people who fail at life. This includes both cigarettes and alcohol, well at least when taken in more than moderate quantities.

...

Really? Do you ever go out drinking? How about coffee? Smoke? Those are all recreational drugs, in essence. Many, many successful people who did not "fail at life" smoked pot and used other mind-altering substances. I could easily name dozens and dozens of artist, musicians, writers and even scientists who at least smoked cannabis. John Lenon, Carl Sagan, Alexander Dumas, Bill Maher, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Bill Bradley to name a few, have all admitted to at least experimenting with pot or hashish.

Any substance, legal or not, can be abused and cause dependency. The cause is not the substance, it is the user. Don't blame drugs for one's failures, blame the individual. That is personal responsibility.

EDIT: This thread will probably be locked soon....

No I never go out drinking, I don't drink coffee though I did drink a lot of soda but I am off it now. I don't smoke either.

I don't care how many people you can give me that used marijuana and are successful, your missing the point. They would all have been just as good in their respective field if they never smoked, maybe even better.

The "failing at life" bit was to emphasize that relying on a drug for fun or entertainment is dumb. Relying on a drug to help cope is also dumb, unless the drug has been prescribed by a physician of some kind and is being monitored to make sure that you do not harm yourself or others. Naturally there are some drugs that do not need such strict control over them, but you still need to be reading the instructions at least.

Also, yes any substance can be abused, I never claimed otherwise. Using marijuana or any drug for recreational use is abusing it. I am not blaming the drug, its an inanimate object, it doesn't do anything. I am merely stating that it does not belong on any store shelves except the pharmacies.

There are a good deal of people who feel exactly the opposite of your assertion that successful pot smokers would've been more successful had they not used drugs in the first place. In fact, that is the first time that I've ever heard anyone try to argue that. Many people think that musicians and artists get some of their inspiration from hallucinogenic and/or recreational drugs. So, whether any of the people I mentioned would've met with more or less success had they not used drugs is highly debatable.

My only goal was disprove the statement that I'd highlighted, which I think I did. Even if you're right about levels of success versus drug use, you can't argue that those people were (and are) not successful in their endeavors.

Now, instead of admitting that you are wrong, you're instead backpedaling and attempting to deflect my point. Nothing personal, mind you, just "friendly debate" as they say...

Believe it or not, there are people who can use marijuana responsibly without being dependent on it. I'm sure that you can guess that I consider myself among that number. For me, it is like an occasional treat as opposed to a daily habit. There have been times in my life when it was a daily thing, but there have also been many long stretches where I did not use it at all, and didn't miss it one bit. I won't lie, there are times once in a while when I pine for it, but it's more like a craving for something sweet or wanting to hear a particular song.

If you don't feel that pot should be legalized, I'm fine with that, really. Just that one statement you made really needed to be addressed, plus I think that if you're going to take a position on an issue that you should have valid reasons, not conjecture and/or rhetoric.

 

[sabotstarr]

I don't know why the myth of marijuana not being dangerous floats around. It has more carcinogens the cigarettes and thus has a higher chance of causing lung cancer. Overdoses on marijuana are far more likely the overdoses on booze. The only reason you DON'T hear about that stuff is because there are no ads saying don't do pot for (blah) reasons because its already illegal.

Dude, you cant overdose on pot, its almost physically impossible

 

[Yog Sothoth]

I don't know why the myth of marijuana not being dangerous floats around. It has more carcinogens the cigarettes and thus has a higher chance of causing lung cancer. Overdoses on marijuana are far more likely the overdoses on booze. The only reason you DON'T hear about that stuff is because there are no ads saying don't do pot for (blah) reasons because its already illegal.

Um, what? What percentage of those who drink in the United States are treated for alcohol poisoning every year? And what percentage of those who smoke pot are treated for "marijuana overdose"? Do I actually need to google it for you......?

You're grossly mis-informed, my friend....

 

[sabotstarr]

I don't know why the myth of marijuana not being dangerous floats around. It has more carcinogens the cigarettes and thus has a higher chance of causing lung cancer. Overdoses on marijuana are far more likely the overdoses on booze. The only reason you DON'T hear about that stuff is because there are no ads saying don't do pot for (blah) reasons because its already illegal.

Um, what? What percentage of those who drink in the United States are treated for alcohol poisoning every year? And what percentage of those who smoke pot are treated for "marijuana overdose"? Do I actually need to google it for you......?

You're grossly mis-informed, my friend....

Thank you. A smart person that agrees with me. I feel happy all over.

 

[BubbleGumSnareDrum]

I don't know why the myth of marijuana not being dangerous floats around. It has more carcinogens the cigarettes and thus has a higher chance of causing lung cancer. Overdoses on marijuana are far more likely the overdoses on booze. The only reason you DON'T hear about that stuff is because there are no ads saying don't do pot for (blah) reasons because its already illegal.

....so is this like a joke post or something? None of those things are true at all.

 

[GreenDevilJF]

There is already alcohol and cigarettes, I don't really see the good in adding another one. That and if it doesn't pass the reaction on the forum might be hilarious to read.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Drugs should be legalized because its creating the cartels and black markets. You want to truly end or lower crime first off make them legal then regulate them like the vices they are.

Legalize it, then tax. Not only will you have a new revenue stream you'll lower drug crimes by half saving money on that front.

Sure you will be displacing some of that burden on the healthcare system but it beats the flawed and failed war on drugs that's become of addict of its own self righteousness!

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

Finally. Pot was made illegal because the government was worried that they would lose money to Mexicans over it, now they're making it legal so they can tax it and get us out of a recession.

 

[Evilbunny]

Meh. Legalizing weed would be kind of nice I guess. Wouldn't really change much for me. I can already walk about 50 feet in any direction from where I am sitting and find at least 4 people that I can buy from, so this wouldn't affect my drug attaining abilities in any way.

As for the whole "health" aspect of it. Fuck it. So its possibly bad for me in some way. Whoop de doo. I'm pretty sure that everything I do these days is bad for me. This food I eat is saturated with crap, by ipod headphones are making me go deaf, all of my electronics are giving me cancers of various sorts, and my perfectly legal recreational drinking is destroying my brain and my liver. Whats one more on the pile? I'm sure my videogaming is doing wonders for my health. These painkillers I'm taking for my wisdom teeth are filled with all sorts of chemicals that probably worse than THC.

As for the "moral" aspects, its my weekend dammit. Shoo.

I think this is the best post in this thread so far, and possibly the best post I've read all day.

 

[JWAN]

well
prolonged exposure can cause testicular cancer (ensuring hippies cannot reproduce)
toxicity after prolonged or repeated exposure (depends on the person)
Mental retardation, again after prolonged exposure (won't notice any difference)


go for it

 

[Drake the Dragonheart]

Marijuana has no legitimate reason to be legalized as anything but prescriptive medication. Recreational drugs are for people who fail at life. This includes both cigarettes and alcohol, well at least when taken in more than moderate quantities.

If you need a substance to "get you through the day" then talk with your doctor or a psychiatrist. Then if you have an actual problem such as a chemical imbalance in your brain it can be diagnosed and treated. If you just need a "pick me up", get over it.

If you need to unwind do some exercise or read a book or listen to music. Much better for your health and more productive.

Way to judge the rest of us by your own life. Recreational drug use has been a part of human existence since before there were people. Seriously, some animals will eat fruit after it has fermented to a degree on purpose. Nice thing about pot? After dealing with both alcohol and pot in my life and others I found one thing out for certain: Alcohol does far far more damage then pot to both the user and those around them. Not in some cases, not I formed an opinion, not something seriously debatable. Alcohol. More. Damaging. Then. Pot. Since you are NEVER getting rid of recreational drug use, why not approach the issue with logic. They legalized the wrong drug when they ended prohibition. Or as I like to put it:

Man made beer, God made pot, who do you trust?

(and before you rant about coca leaves etc. AGAIN, think: Never getting rid of recreational drug use, ever. Pot, Cocaine, or Heroin? Which do you legalize?)

You do make some valid points. Alcohol is more damaging to both user and people around user than pot is. No argument there. Drug use is never going to go away, also a valid point. But if recreational drug use has been in existence "ever since there have been humans" than how could it have existed before humans? Just Also, consider this, murder has existed ever since there were humans. Just saying.

Also, whoever mentioned smoked salmon, now I am hungry. That sounds good.

 

[Yog Sothoth]

well
prolonged exposure can cause testicular cancer (ensuring hippies cannot reproduce) < I read that study, it's not conclusive and is merely a preliminary finding from a small sample.
Mental retardation (won't notice any difference) < No, but it has been named a risk factor for schizophrenia. Note that a "risk factor" is not a direct link.


go for it

I'm done de-bunking misconceptions here today, come back tomorrow if anyone else has any mis-information that needs to be shot down......

 

[JWAN]

well
prolonged exposure can cause testicular cancer (ensuring hippies cannot reproduce) < I read that study, it's not conclusive and is merely a preliminary finding from a small sample.
Mental retardation (won't notice any difference) < No, but it has been named a risk factor for schizophrenia. Note that a "risk factor" is not a direct link.


go for it

I'm done de-bunking misconceptions here today, come back tomorrow if anyone else has any mis-information that needs to be shot down......

yea that's why I put CAN
schizophrenia is a mental defect, a mental defect is a retardation
and its still toxic after prolonged exposure

 

[Yog Sothoth]

well
prolonged exposure can cause testicular cancer (ensuring hippies cannot reproduce) < I read that study, it's not conclusive and is merely a preliminary finding from a small sample.
Mental retardation (won't notice any difference) < No, but it has been named a risk factor for schizophrenia. Note that a "risk factor" is not a direct link.


go for it

I'm done de-bunking misconceptions here today, come back tomorrow if anyone else has any mis-information that needs to be shot down......

yea thats why I put CAN
schizophrenia is a mental defect, a mental defect is a retardation

You should've put "MIGHT", not "CAN"......

Neither of those statements are yet proven. We have some evidence, but we all know (or should know!) that evidence can be misleading or counter-intuitive. Is the earth flat? It looks flat from here, so it must be, right? Same logic.

EDIT: Also, schizophrenia and developmental disabilities are not the same. The first is a mental illness, the latter a birth defect......

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

I don't know why the myth of marijuana not being dangerous floats around. It has more carcinogens the cigarettes and thus has a higher chance of causing lung cancer. Overdoses on marijuana are far more likely the overdoses on booze. The only reason you DON'T hear about that stuff is because there are no ads saying don't do pot for (blah) reasons because its already illegal.

....so is this like a joke post or something? None of those things are true at all.

YES you win, the above reason were the exact words (not exact but close enough for me) used by lobbyist to try and stop this bill. Granted I should have been more obvious about it but nonetheless, cookie for you.

 

[Evilbunny]

I don't know why the myth of marijuana not being dangerous floats around. It has more carcinogens the cigarettes and thus has a higher chance of causing lung cancer. Overdoses on marijuana are far more likely the overdoses on booze. The only reason you DON'T hear about that stuff is because there are no ads saying don't do pot for (blah) reasons because its already illegal.

....so is this like a joke post or something? None of those things are true at all.

YES you win, the above reason were the exact words (not exact but close enough for me) used by lobbyist to try and stop this bill. Granted I should have been more obvious about it but nonetheless, cookie for you.

PHEW! I'm happy to know there aren't idiots like that on the escapist...just in congress...hmmm.

 

[peduncle]

i'm actually indifferent to this debate. i don't understand why it's such a big deal to people.

 

[Captain Blackout]

Way to judge the rest of us by your own life. Recreational drug use has been a part of human existence since before there were people. Seriously, some animals will eat fruit after it has fermented to a degree on purpose.

How is it possible that recreational drug use has been part of human existence since before humans existed? I also do not care what animals do, it has no bearing on what I think.

OMFG!

Okay, prior to homo sapiens, evolutionary precursors (read "animal" for purpose of statement) used substances. Most likely fermented fruit. The moment genetic makeup was recognizable as homo sapiens usage was ALREADY part of human existence. The two statements I made were part of one concept. Good job trying to take them individually. Critical fail for you.

Other points:

Pot has been linked to schizophrenia and depression. Most likely reason by far? Because too many people with mental health issues are ignored and denied help, don't want hard drugs, and turn to pot for relief. Pot doesn't cause schizophrenia.

Retardation literally some part of a persons development was retarded. That is slowed down. Schizophrenia can certainly lead to developmental delay, but it is a different kind of problem in and of itself. Good job confabulating two issues that need real help into one for your own purposes, effectively insulting anyone who deals with either. Critical fail for you too.

Opinions are great and all but when simple hippies are being jailed and costing taxpayers entirely too much we need real information. We certainly don't need some of the dreck I've seen here. Medical science is a hobby for me, and I learned from one of the best doctors in the country. Yeah, I know, blowing my horn with an unverifiable statement since I won't be giving his name is trolling at it's finest. Oh well. At least when I post I know what I'm doing. Where'd some of you get your info, "Reefer Madness?"

 

[Ezekel]

Way to judge the rest of us by your own life. Recreational drug use has been a part of human existence since before there were people. Seriously, some animals will eat fruit after it has fermented to a degree on purpose.

How is it possible that recreational drug use has been part of human existence since before humans existed? I also do not care what animals do, it has no bearing on what I think.

OMFG!

Okay, prior to homo sapiens, evolutionary precursors (read "animal" for purpose of statement) used substances. Most likely fermented fruit. The moment genetic makeup was recognizable as homo sapiens usage was ALREADY part of human existence. The two statements I made were part of one concept. Good job trying to take them individually. Critical fail for you.

Other points:

Pot has been linked to schizophrenia and depression. Most likely reason by far? Because too many people with mental health issues are ignored and denied help, don't want hard drugs, and turn to pot for relief. Pot doesn't cause schizophrenia.

Retardation literally some part of a persons development was retarded. That is slowed down. Schizophrenia can certainly lead to developmental delay, but it is a different kind of problem in and of itself. Good job confabulating two issues that need real help into one for your own purposes, effectively insulting anyone who deals with either. Critical fail for you too.

Opinions are great and all but when simple hippies are being jailed and costing taxpayers entirely too much we need real information. We certainly don't need some of the dreck I've seen here. Medical science is a hobby for me, and I learned from one of the best doctors in the country. Yeah, I know, blowing my horn with an unverifiable statement since I won't be giving his name is trolling at it's finest. Oh well. At least when I post I know what I'm doing. Where'd some of you get your info, "Reefer Madness?"

Maybe I need to reread my posts, but I never mentioned anything about the effects of marijuana at all.

What proof do you have that these "precursors" or whatever you want to call them used substances. None, then again I have no proof they didn't as there is basically nothing known about there supposed existence. It also has nothing to do with this debate. The debate is whether marijuana should be legalized. Also animals are not people, nor are they human.

I say let it be legalized, but only for medicinal purposes. Put it behind the counter at pharmacies not behind the counter at gas stations.